History of the Hobbit

.. your a dude? I thought you were... like... erm.. a mystical being.. much cooler when noone knew... ofcourse you're a male... lol...

Well, if I become behorsed again, at the very least, upon my return the matter of my gender will be vague once more, at least to folks here.

And maybe then I'll be cool again, or cooler [tries eating some hay] no... that didn't work. Perhaps a run in the field.

I always thought that Elthir was a guy. I didn't really spend a lot of time pondering it though.

I remember when Odo thought I was a girl, though.

Yup, always thought Elthir was a guy too.

But then, I always thought Petty was French Canadian.

I remember when people thought I was a boy.

Never mind all. Boys? Girls? It's all the same to me!

You are still a mystical being Elthir, or enigma if you will.

I always thought Petty was French Canadian.- Halfwise

French-Canadian! Sounds dodgy to me. I dont think I want to know how you make one of those...

Fascinating reading - HotH I mean!

Found it! A side-by-side comparison of the first versus the second edition of "Riddles in the Dark", changed by Tolkien to conform with LoTR!

http://www.ringgame.net/riddles.html

Nice to have it laid out side by side.

thats what they all say.

Are we back to carrots ?

probably.

While looking into the suggested 'Elvenking and Elwe' connection, I stumbled across commentary on the possibility of the Elvenking actually being Thingol -- at least at first -- although JDR notes that it would arguably be a 'coming down in the world' for Thingol Greycloak, if so. But in relation to this, he notes about Glorfindel...

' ... his [Thingol] original home sunk beneath the waves in lost Beleriand, his kingdom reduced to the wood-elf realm of Mirkwood. Glorfindel clearly had unfinished business drawing him back into the mortal world (footnote 43)

43 It hardly seems a coincidence that Glorfindel, who died defending the seven-year-old Earendil during the fall of Gondolin, should turn up six thousand years later in the retinue of Earendil's son, Elrond Halfelven; he has clearly made it his task to guard the last scion of the house of Gondolin.'

Well, I can see why someone might phrase things this way, but technically Glorfindel died defending the fugitives of Gondolin, Earendil being among them, yes; and moreover, Tolkien actually speaks to the reason for Glorfindel's return:

'His [Glorfindel's] return must have been for the purpose of strengthening Gil-galad and Elrond, when the growing evil of the intentions of Sauron were at last perceived by them.'

JRRT, Last Writings

I don't know, but Tolkien doesn't seem to be as 'Earendil or Elrond specific' as JDR is above. If I was writing note 43, I would quote, paraphrase, or refer the reader to this line from Last Writings rather.

Was note 43 written by Rateliff or Tolkien?

Sorry, by JDR

No problem, but I know that in HoME at least some footnotes were Tolkien's and some were Christopher's, so I figured I should ask just to be sure.

Anyway, I agree that Rateliff's conclusion seems a bit unwarranted -- I certainly wouldn't use the word "clearly". It's an interesting hypothesis though. It's not necessarily incompatible with the comment in Last Writings, though it would have to be understood in that context (if Glorfindel had multiple motivations). That said, I can't think of any solid evidence for it.

Well put Eldorion.

While I won't say JDR is necessarily wrong here I think his wording is too strong for what seems to me to be an opinion working its way in... certainly a learned opinion based on the evidence, but 'clearly' goes too far for me as well.

So nice to sit back with a buckie and watch the Lore Masters at work.

Elthir wrote:Well put Eldorion.

While I won't say JDR is necessarily wrong here I think his wording is too strong for what seems to me to be an opinion working its way in... certainly a learned opinion based on the evidence, but 'clearly' goes too far for me as well.

I have a lot of respect for Rateliff so I certainly don't mind him inserting his opinions since they are -- as you say -- based on considerably research and understanding of Tolkien's works. I think he could have been clearer as to what was opinion in this case, though. I think we're on the same page with this. Thanks for bringing it up, BTW, Glorfindel is an interesting topic who I haven't spent as much time thinking about as some.

Pettytyrant101 wrote:So nice to sit back with a buckie and watch the Lore Masters at work.

Haha, thanks Petty.

Im an expert Eldo in drinking buckie whilst others work- got a diploma in it and everything.

What does the "X" stand for in X-Mas? I'm thinking xylophone because it's pretty much the only word that begins with "x

xenomorph- Jesus was an alien.

Cops getting donuts. lol