Oddities, curiousities and strangness in history

American I assume? (And not just from the names but the sentiment that the best route to equality is giving everyone the power to murder each other )

Of course.

Unsurprisingly (and despite the positive association with Lincoln in that quote), white gun advocates have backtracked on this line of thought when it gets picked up on by black people.

http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2011/09/the-secret-history-of-guns/308608/

You know I have never actually read the exact wording which that article gives as-

“A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.”

That does not in any way, shape or form strike me as advocating everyone has a right to carry a gun about. Rather it advocates in a time with a need for state militia the people should have arms in order to form said militia at times of need. Not just walk about tooled up all the time, especially outwith being in a militia.

Yeah, that's how a lot of people interpret it. But the Supreme Court doesn't agree.

Are they only interpreting the last 14 words, as otherwise I cant see how they can come to any other interpretation?

You can try to make sense of it with the Wikipedia page, particularly the "Decision" section.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/District_of_Columbia_v._Heller

Well, to my mind it sounds like the claim that a well-regulated Militia is necessary for the safety of a free state implies that the people of that state need to know how to work guns (and have them too, I guess) in order to function well in that militia if it ever gets formed. So as to make sure people know how to work guns the lawmakers aren't allowed to make laws banning people from learning how to work (and own) guns.

Why are we talking about toting weaponry about though? Was that mentioned in that article Eldo posted which I did not read?
I think it's reasonable to assume that people can learn to use and keep their guns while at home and don't need to bring them about with them. Unless they're driving to a shooting range or going hunting or something.

Why are we talking about toting weaponry about though? - Forest

Because at least from outside the US that seems to be the general attitude to guns there. Don't you have states which allow the general public to carry weapons, and concealed weapons?

But the thing I find weirdest about it is the seeming contradiction at the heart of America.
Its a country which likes to tout itself as the worlds greatest democracy, a leading light in democracy in fact and freedom.

Yet you have so little confidence and belief in your democratic processes and government that you feel you have to arm yourself against some potential perceived threat from your own government.

If you want to change the country thats what the ballot box is for- the whole point of democracy is that you can hold government to account and even change government without the need to resort to violence at all.

And I mean what is the result of US guns laws in practice? A couple of high school massacres a year and a massive number of gang shootings? Is that worth it?

Somehow I dont think if I lived in America all those guns would make me feel safer. Quite the opposite in fact. I like living in a country where even the police dont have guns outside of a specialist highly trained firearms units that are only deployed in circumstances that warrant an armed response.

Petty wrote:Its a country which likes to tout itself as the worlds greatest democracy, a leading light in democracy in fact and freedom.

That's greatest by volume, you understand.
Like cheap box wine, it may not be the highest quality, but it it comes in a big container and it gets the job done.

What's with this "world's greatest democracy" bullshit? We're better than ANY country, democracy or no.

Oh yes, I forgot about American Exceptionalism.
Actually I think the rest of the world probably think that's true- America is exceptional, ad possibly special.

Doh ....I can spell exsepshional. But it's easier to spell "gun".

Pettytyrant101 wrote:Oh yes, I forgot about American Exceptionalism.
Actually I think the rest of the world probably think that's true- America is exceptional, ad possibly special.

If the US is drunk on its own power, then the UK is still hungover.

then the UK is still hungover.- Eldo

How dare you! I remain far to drunk for any sort of hangover! (though when China and Russia take over backed by India I think the US hangover will be epic!)

Yeah, we're not gonna take our inevitable eclipse well. The only possible silver lining is that we've been so paranoid about being overtaken (by Russia, by Japan, by Europe, by China, etc.) that when it does actually happen, we'll be at least a little bit prepared psychologically. A little bit.

Eldorion wrote:

Pettytyrant101 wrote:Oh yes, I forgot about American Exceptionalism.
Actually I think the rest of the world probably think that's true- America is exceptional, ad possibly special.

If the US is drunk on its own power, then the UK is still hungover.

She-BANG!

She-BANG!- halfy

Typical American, everything needs an explosion

Eldorion wrote:Yeah, we're not gonna take our inevitable eclipse well.  The only possible silver lining is that we've been so paranoid about being overtaken (by Russia, by Japan, by Europe, by China, etc.) that when it does actually happen, we'll be at least a little bit prepared psychologically.  A little bit.

Maybe, but I'm betting we don't even notice. Denial is a powerful tool. Do you think the Roman Empire was aware of it's own "decline and fall"?

I think they noticed the Barbarians.

I get this image of a bunch of Romans being all cultured and contentedly orgying in their villa,  when one looks out the window and thinks "who's all these shaggy people running past?"

halfwise wrote:I get this image of a bunch of Romans being all cultured and contentedly orgying in their villa,  when one looks out the window and thinks "who's all these shaggy people running past?"

or looking out their Windows saying ''look at that berk with the Oliphaunts, comes all this way for a pizza then just goes straight back home''

Mrs Figg wrote:I think they noticed the Barbarians.

You mean the illegal immigrants, right?

Hey, what about the hoards of armed drug cartel operatives who move through America at will.
Maybe we were invaded a couple decades ago!
Maybe we've already fallen and They're just not telling us!
It's all a conspiracy! IT'S ALL A CONSPIRACY!!!

[[[now where's my gun? ]]]