Re: Doctor Who [10]

by Pettytyrant101 Sun Feb 15, 2015 7:45 pm

'the word bitch though, isn't it a bit gender specific. Surely there are other words one can use for someone who treats someone else badly?'- Blue

No point mucking and and beating around the bush Blue, spades a spade- she acts bitchy, she is bitchy.

by **Amarië** Sun Feb 15, 2015 7:56 pm

I hear you, Blue. It's the sad truth of the world that female is yuck while male is yeeeey!

I find men quite able to be bitchy too.

by Pettytyrant101 Sun Feb 15, 2015 8:01 pm

I wouldn't use bitch for a man because its a female word- coming from the word for a female dog. I would use bastard to describe a man acting the same way.
If a male companion treated a girlfriend the way Rose does Mickey I'd say he was a complete bastard.

by Mrs Figg Sun Feb 15, 2015 8:07 pm

Pettytyrant101 wrote:firstly Mickey is a loser, he is pretty useless, and Rose rightly knows that she can do better. later of course Mickey grows a pair and becomes a hero......That stuff about her being a bitch to other women is just risable and doesn't deserve a reply.- Figg

She strings Mikey along- she leaves him to take the rap for her disappearance and isn't that bothered about it when she finds out. She is happy to drag him along when it suits her and she forgets all about him when it doesn't, and she is flirting openly and has a growing romantic relationship with the Doctor (even typing that feels wrong) and yet she doesnt have the guts to finish it with Mickey who she seems be keeping as a reserve- if a guy treated a woman like that Id say he was treating her like shit. No different the other way round.

As to Mickey growing a pair and being useless before- he clearly isn't useless before- he has a job, he clearly adores her and loves her. He takes all the crap for her including her disappearance and how is he treated in return- appallingly.

first off Mickey is the worst kind of whinging petulant person. he uses emotional blackmail and guilt trips to cling to her. she needed to get rid of him before he suffocated her. Rose has this wonderful opportunity and she takes it. who can blame her. srsly its mind boggling. nobody likes Mickey as a character yet they use him to attack Rose. the bottom line is, if Rose had looked like Amy her behaviour would be better tolerated, but ordinary looking girls cant win. Amy on the other hand treats her husband like dirt, always telling him to shut up and humiliates him in public. that is the behaviour of a bitch but because she looks like a supermodel the fanboys forgive her appalling behaviour.

And the very idea he is only a proper man when he becomes brave and heroic and 'grows a pair' is sexist. You are saying he isn't a proper man unless he conforms to male stereotypes of heroism and bravery and being strong. Otherwise he is 'useless' and a 'loser'.

no you misinterpret what I am saying. Mickey is a leech, emotionally weak and I would say he uses Rose as an emotional crutch. When he grows some, he becomes an adult who rights the wrongs he did to his grandmother. its got NOTHING to do with stereotypical male heroism. Mickey becomes a hero for himself. he doesn't NEED Rose any more, in fact he marries the high flying self assured Martha, someone he would have stood no chance with before.

Thats like saying if a woman isnt a domestic goddess, dresses well and looks good and acts sweet and demure she isnt a proper woman- its offensive.

She is a bitch to other people who get close- go watch the episode with Sarah Jane and tell me she isn't bitchy in that to Sarah.

For example-

ROSE: I don't mean to be rude or anything, but who exactly are you?
SARAH: Sarah Jane Smith. I used to travel with the Doctor.
ROSE: Oh. Well, he's never mentioned you.

or

SARAH: It's not working.
ROSE: Give it to me.
SARAH: Used to work first time in my day.
ROSE: Well, things were a lot simpler back then.
SARAH: Rose, can I give you a bit of advice?
ROSE: I've got a feeling you're about to.
SARAH: I know how intense a relationship with the Doctor can be, and I don't want you to feel I'm intruding.
ROSE: I don't feel threatened by you, if that's what you mean.
SARAH: Right. Good. Because I'm not interested in picking up where we left off.
ROSE: No? With the big sad eyes and the robot dog? What else were you doing last night?
SARAH: I was just saying how hard it was adjusting to life back on Earth.
ROSE: The thing is, when you two met they'd only just got rid of rationing. No wonder all that space stuff was a bit too much for you.

She seems both bitchy and jealous to me.

Rose isn't perfect, she can be jealous, its pretty normal behaviour considering what she would lose by losing the Doctor. she has had a tough life and she will fight if she feels threatened. its not being bitchy, its Rose showing her vulnerability.

by Bluebottle Sun Feb 15, 2015 8:12 pm

That does mean using the word gender specificaly though, and while Rose may have acted horribly I don't really see what her being a woman has to do with it. I just dislike judging people on things they can do nothing about, that's all. Shrugging

by Pettytyrant101 Sun Feb 15, 2015 8:16 pm

I don think he is being petulant or using emotional blackmail when he is being accused of abducting and murdering her, arrested, questioned by the police and the subject of a local campaign against him orchestrated by Rose' mother. Think how horrible that must have been and all Rose gives him is little more than a shrug of her shoulders.
And if she just needs to shrug off Mickey the useless leech why does she not do so much earlier, why does she put him through all this and string him along?
Not a very personality trait in my view.

As to her not looking like Amy- Billie Piper is a very attractive woman. I defy any red blooded male to watch her in that Call-girl series and not think so, but her looks have nothing to do with it- it show she treats people who aren't the Doctor is the problem.
You however often, as you just did, belittle Amy because Karen Gillan is good looking.

She not only can be selfish and jealous- she is often selfish and jealous. That's not something I find very endearing or that I want to watch in a companion week to week.

by Pettytyrant101 Sun Feb 15, 2015 8:17 pm

That does mean using the word gender specifically though- Blue

That's how I use words, gender specific. Its no different in the language than priest and priestesses or actor and actress, it just denotes a male or female word. Bitch and bastard being the equivalents here.

by Mrs Figg Sun Feb 15, 2015 8:17 pm

I think calling a woman a bitch is more telling about the person using the word than the woman herself.

by malickfan Sun Feb 15, 2015 8:20 pm

This is interesting, a reconstruction of an abandoned 30th Anniversary Story 'Lost in The Dark Dimension':

http://www.kasterborous.com/2015/02/watch-lost-dark-dimension-dare-youtube/

by Pettytyrant101 Sun Feb 15, 2015 8:20 pm

by Pettytyrant101 Sun Feb 15, 2015 8:21 pm

I think calling a woman a bitch is more telling about the person using the word than the woman herself.- Figg

I think thats nonsense. Its just an appropriate word to describe her behaviour. If it was a man acting that way towards a woman (and in fact people in general who arent the Doctor) Id call him a bastard, same thing, same meaning in that context.

by Pettytyrant101 Sun Feb 15, 2015 8:25 pm

Malick- Id heard of that but didn't know the details- Ill give those a watch later Nod

by Pettytyrant101 Sun Feb 15, 2015 8:27 pm

by Bluebottle Sun Feb 15, 2015 8:35 pm

Pettytyrant101 wrote:That does mean using the word gender specifically though- Blue

That's how I use words, gender specific. Its no different in the language than priest and priestesses or actor and actress, it just denotes a male or female word. Bitch and bastard being the equivalents here.

Yes, but neither of those are value statements. They signfy a state of being, they do not judge it. By using the word bitch to a woman, you are basically telling her that she in you opinion has acted horribly and that she is a woman. Why not just say you've acted horribly? What does gender have to do with it?

Now, I'm perfectly on board with you not meaning it that way, but other people use it that way, and even if you don't mean it that way the reciprocant might feel you do.

Oh, I don't know. I in no way mean to come across as preaching or anything. There's nothing worng with swearing as such, for fucks sake.

by Pettytyrant101 Sun Feb 15, 2015 8:47 pm

Its just how the language is constructed, there are masculine and feminine words. Bitch and bastard being equivalents in meaning here.

If I described a male character as acting like a complete bastard no one would accuse me of any sort of sexism, so why should it be different if I accuse a female character of acting like a bitch.

by Bluebottle Sun Feb 15, 2015 8:49 pm

Isn't the fact that bastard wouldn't be considered sexist half the problem? scratch

by Pettytyrant101 Sun Feb 15, 2015 8:51 pm

I don't consider bitch in this context sexist in any way. Any more than I would if it was male and I used bastard.
Its not an insult in the sense that I am just calling her a bitch in general- I am specifically calling out specific behaviour and calling it bitchy. Therefore it is merely descriptive of her actions.

by Mrs Figg Sun Feb 15, 2015 8:52 pm

I think Rory is like Mickey, only Rory is the master of guilt trips. Rose manages to escape but poor Amy is stuck with an emotional vampire.

by Pettytyrant101 Sun Feb 15, 2015 8:53 pm

I cant even begin to imagine how you can justify that about Rory. So please do.

by Pettytyrant101 Sun Feb 15, 2015 9:55 pm

by Mrs Figg Sun Feb 15, 2015 10:01 pm

Pettytyrant101 wrote:I don't consider bitch in this context sexist in any way. Any more than I would if it was male and I used bastard.
Its not an insult in the sense that I am just calling her a bitch in general- I am specifically calling out specific behaviour and calling it bitchy. Therefore it is merely descriptive of her actions.

that's a load of flim flam and you know it.

by Mrs Figg Sun Feb 15, 2015 10:03 pm

I am working my through season 4 at the moment. I had forgotten how brilliant it is. Pompeii is particularly good.

by Bluebottle Sun Feb 15, 2015 10:06 pm

Pettytyrant101 wrote:I don't consider bitch in this context sexist in any way. Any more than I would if it was male and I used bastard.
Its not an insult in the sense that I am just calling her a bitch in general- I am specifically calling out specific behaviour and calling it bitchy. Therefore it is merely descriptive of her actions.

Seeing as you would not use the word for the exact same actions by a man as a wioman, I think it undeniable that gender plays as much a part in the usage of the term as the actions themselves. I do understand that you don't put any value into that part of the statement, Petty. Others do though

But hey, if you feel self assured , relfected and comfortable in using the term the way you use it then use it. I'm not going to tell you it's wrong. But perhaps I've highlighted some other perspectives on the usage of that term that are good to contemplate. Shrugging

by Pettytyrant101 Sun Feb 15, 2015 10:11 pm

Figg- Just simple logic- she does and says things which are bitchy- not like I am the only person to have noticed it- therefore saying she is bitchy is perfectly appropriate use of the word. She is.

Pompey is an excellent episode. And Donna one hundred times better a companion and character than Rose ever was.

Unfortunately that series also contains Partners in Crime, the Sontaran two parter, the Doctor's Daughter and the Agatha Christie one- saved only by Donna that one.

On the plus side after that you get a good run with Silence in the Library two parter, Midnight and Turn Left- three of the best stories in 10's run I reckon.

But then you get Stolen Earth and Journeys End which are not so great again except for the ending with Donna.

Blue- gender does come into it in terms of language- bitch is a word to describe certain unlikeable characteristics in a woman, bastard describes certain unlikeable characteristics in a man. Neither is sexist in my view just descriptive and denoting gender of the person in question.

Other people insisting on seeing a different meaning when I made my position on the matter perfectly clear is therefore their problem and not mine. Shrugging

by Bluebottle Sun Feb 15, 2015 10:28 pm

Pettytyrant101 wrote:Other people insisting on seeing a different meaning when I made my position on the matter perfectly clear is therefore their problem and not mine.

True, but you might still hurt someone without meaning to. And it is a form of expression which is liable to do just that, and one should therefore perhaps consider ones usage of it. Whether one means harm or not. Shrugging