Re: Doctor Who [10]

by Pettytyrant101 Sat May 16, 2015 2:35 pm

In news sure to annoy you Figg- Moffat has been confirmed as having signed up for at least one more series, he will be doing series 10 as well. cheers

by azriel Sat May 16, 2015 3:22 pm

by **Amarië** Sat May 16, 2015 3:28 pm

I'll keep the champagne on ice until I've seen what he's up to this next season.

by Pettytyrant101 Sat May 16, 2015 3:34 pm

If they build on the good work done in series 8 I'll be very happy. Nod

by Mrs Figg Sat May 16, 2015 4:08 pm

Amarië wrote:I'll keep the champagne on ice until I've seen what he's up to this next season.

I think it may be on ice for a while.

by Bluebottle Sat May 16, 2015 9:40 pm

I don't wanrt to come across as harsh, and I definitely don't mean to label the show in it's current incarnation in any way, I rather enjoyed the last series, although it was a bit up and down, and I feel a lot of the positives can be laid at Cipaldis door, but I think the show would benefit from some fresh ideas and a new approach at some point.

It's a question of finding the right person though, and I don't really have any names..

by Pettytyrant101 Sat May 16, 2015 10:09 pm

My hunch is he will either go after series 10, or if the show is still doing very well, and people are liking the direction, he will stay for as long as Capaldi does.
There is sometimes an issue with the actor playng the Doctor across changes of production teams and direction.
They avoided that last time as it was a total change from production team to cast.
But there is always the chance Capaldi might not like the direction of a new production, or not like how they work (see Eccelston).
So if Moffat does stay beyond 10 I reckon he goes when his lead does.

by malickfan Sat May 16, 2015 11:16 pm

Bluebottle wrote:

It's a question of finding the right person though, and I don't really have any names..

I'm on the fence about Moffat staying, I've found his writing rather hit and miss, and would certainly welcome new blood (five members of my family pretty much stopped watching the show because they don't like his writing, and none of my close friends are over fond of his tenure, so I now have to go online to annoy people about it Laughing

) but there is no question that's he an experienced producer who knows the series inside out, it's hard to see who the BBC would choose as a successor, or whether anyone would want the stress and following two massively successful showrunners.

I wouldn't be entirely surprised if Moffat is staying becuase they can't find anyone to take over, he may have plenty of stories left to tell, but six years is a fair stretch, and there is only so far one writer can go before runs out of steam. I think we would have heard something by now if a successor had been appointed-from memory Moffat was announced almost two years before series 5 premiered...

Of the current crop of writers, Mark Gatiss, Chris Chibnall, Gareth Roberts and Toby Whithouse are the only ones with similar experience with the franchise and previous showrunning experience , but only the latter has actually expressed any interest in taking on the job.

I'm not convinced the BBC would give the job to someone with no previous connection to the series, but it could turn out to be an interesting move in the long run, Capaldi certainly seems eager to stay as long as possible, and it would be very interesting to see more than one showrunner handle the 12th Doctor, Adrian Hodges (Primeval, The Musketeers) would be my pick in that case, he's worked with Capaldi before and has produced two hit family shows.

The BBC have confirmed it will run to 2020 at the very least, I just hope Moffat dosen't plan on staying that long...(I wouldn't mind if Capaldi did)

by malickfan Sat May 16, 2015 11:21 pm

Pettytyrant101 wrote: he will stay for as long as Capaldi does.

According to Moffat

there’s no vacancy in Doctor Who and given the way Peter is talking about it I don’t think there will be for a very long while

http://www.themarysue.com/steven-moffat-bafta-doctor-who/

I've seen him reffered to as New Who's Tom Baker...and seven seasons of Capaldi is totally fine in my book...

by Pettytyrant101 Sat May 16, 2015 11:57 pm

seven seasons of Capaldi is totally fine in my book...- Malick

Mine too. Nod

I make no secret of my enjoyment of Moffats writing, but I do think no one show runner should stay forever, we've been there before with JNT.
However I do get the sense Moffat is aware of this himself, and goes someway to epxplaining his approach in continually finding new ways to present the formula, and in bringing in new writers and directors every series.

And as I said before I thought there was a bit of padding in Deep Breath, but its an exellent character piece still, with some beautifully crafted scenes in it such as with the tramp, the restraunt scene, Vastra and Clara's.
And Moffat still for me penned one of the best individual episodes of the series in Listen.
And I thoroughly enjoted the finale, it had great ideas in it.
And I thought the actual series long character arc for both Doctor and the companion was one of the best thought out of any series.
So whilst I dont think anyone should stay overlong, for me Moffat hasn't finished what he started yet.
He has been rebuilding Who since he took over with a modern take on a classic era feel.
Now he has Capaldi in the role and the pieces all in pace I think he has earned the right to have a bit of time exploring that.

by Mrs Figg Sun May 17, 2015 1:18 am

And I thought the actual series long character arc for both Doctor and the companion was one of the best thought out of any series

Laughing

I don't think so.

by Pettytyrant101 Sun May 17, 2015 1:46 am

I can't think of another series, Nu or classic where the character development was so well planned and such an integral part of the series.
Whether you liked it or not is a different matter, but I dont see how the actual technical aspect of the writing, the way each episode explored a different facet of character and built on it, and how all the themes raised in each of those episodes had thematic conclusions in the finale and xmas special, can be denied.
Like I said, I cant think of another series of Who which is so intricate on character development across an entire series.

by Mrs Figg Sun May 17, 2015 4:21 pm

utter tosh. it wasn't well planned at all. they did a switcheroo with the relationship between Clara and the Doctor because of fan complaints that she was one dimensional. if it turned out ok that's a different matter, but claiming it was all constructed is wrong.

by Pettytyrant101 Sun May 17, 2015 6:12 pm

utter tosh. it wasn't well planned at all.- Figg

Are you sure you watched it? Each episode builds and fills in a puzzle in the overall character themes of the series.
Episode one sets up the premise- a Doctor who know no longer knows who he is, or if what he does is for the better or the worse, and a companion who has lost faith in him and is no longer certain that this seemingly callous version of the person she knew is at heart the same person.
It sets up the main themes of acceptance, understanding, and the journey to rediscovering oneself and understanding each other.
Each episode after that adds another piece to the puzzle- Dalek has the Doctor acting efficiently but coldly, further making Clara question him- its the Doctor who cant see the lesson. And Clara who is angry he cant. Both furthering her concern and at the same time furthering her growing role as teacher.
Sherwood is where the Doctor discovers that he does act as a hero, but not to be one, but because he cant help himself from acting when he sees those suffering and in need. And Clara for the first time is partly put in his shoes and has to think on her feet more as he would. And so it goes on episode after episode.
These themes continue to develop and grow in every episode, with the whole culminating in the finale and xmas special with a resolution to all the themes raised.

Like it or not to deny its so very clearly planned is either just ignorant or wilful denial just to spite and have a go at Moffat.
And as I said before I cant think of another series of Who where that sort of character development and plotting is so well constructed across every episode in a series.
Whether you liked it or not there is no way to deny with any credence the character development was planned and each episode relates to the overall themes of the series.

by Forest Shepherd Sun May 17, 2015 6:28 pm

I've recently been rewatching this last season. I can see the character development going on that Petty talks about, and I like Capaldi, but it can be pretty cheese balls at unfortunate times.
"When did you begin believing in impossible heroes?"
"Don't you know?"

I mean, come on. That's Nachos and guacamole and fajitas and twelve quesadillas worth of cheese.

Since when is the Doctor an example of the "impossible hero"?

by Pettytyrant101 Sun May 17, 2015 6:33 pm

I said at the time I though Sherwood was quite fun but a bit Gatiss fluff too (it and Forest being my two least favourite episodes of series 8 )- but it does however stick with the themes and the development of the rest of the series.
And he does travel in space and time in a police box thats bigger on the inside and regenerate instead of dying and save countless worlds, that is in fairness quite impossible.

by Mrs Figg Sun May 17, 2015 6:34 pm

since Moffat took over theres more cheese than in Mo Farahs socks

by Pettytyrant101 Sun May 17, 2015 6:36 pm

Yeah cause nothing cheesy ever happened under RTD Rolling Eyes

by **Amarië** Sun May 17, 2015 7:48 pm

Moffat may have things thought out far ahead, but it still feels like fanfic rather than the 'real deal'.
Past doctors have been dark or darkish, so Moffats Doctor must be supa dark.
Past companions have been in love with the Doctor, so Moffat makes one that the Doc marries.
Past companions have had timelines crossing and such (turn left, badwolf etc), Moffat makes one that is involved in *all* the Doctors timelines now and future.
Companions try and sometimes succeed in dying for/because of the doctor, Clara turns into unnumbered versions of herself who's only purpose it to save the doctor.

It is immensely creepy. Current Clara is compelled from the start to follow the doctor around and do what ever it takes to save him. Burning every bridge and ignore anyone who cares about her to do so. She's born to save the doctor, she's a kamikaze companion. Kill her and another one is right around the corner. And she it the biggest get-out-of-jain-free card ever; any trouble, any real danger to the Doctor and she will be there with fix it. She will act and do whatever the Doctor needs her to be, if he wants her to or not. It's far more creepy than any of this is-or-isn't-he-bad stuff. He's not, Clara won't let him. The Doctor she knows is not evil, so an evil Doctor will need saving.

Companions used to be random people tagging along for the ride, now we have self destructive, pre-programmed copies who's whole existence is based upon making sure the Doctor lives.

by Mrs Figg Sun May 17, 2015 8:11 pm

Amarië wrote:Moffat may have things thought out far ahead, but it still feels like fanfic rather than the 'real deal'.
Past doctors have been dark or darkish, so Moffats Doctor must be supa dark.
Past companions have been in love with the Doctor, so Moffat makes one that the Doc marries.
Past companions have had timelines crossing and such (turn left, badwolf etc), Moffat makes one that is involved in *all* the Doctors timelines now and future.
Companions try and sometimes succeed in dying for/because of the doctor, Clara turns into unnumbered versions of herself who's only purpose it to save the doctor.

It is immensely creepy. Current Clara is compelled from the start to follow the doctor around and do what ever it takes to save him. Burning every bridge and ignore anyone who cares about her to do so. She's born to save the doctor, she's a kamikaze companion. Kill her and another one is right around the corner. And she it the biggest get-out-of-jain-free card ever; any trouble, any real danger to the Doctor and she will be there with fix it. She will act and do whatever the Doctor needs her to be, if he wants her to or not. It's far more creepy than any of this is-or-isn't-he-bad stuff. He's not, Clara won't let him. The Doctor she knows is not evil, so an evil Doctor will need saving.

Companions used to be random people tagging along for the ride, now we have self destructive, pre-programmed copies who's whole existence is based upon making sure the Doctor lives.

I agree with you. Nod

I think that's why I have never taken to Clara, she isn't just a normal person having an adventure. she was born to save him, River was born to save him, its very creepy indeed. It makes them his servants, like they don't have free will they don't have a choice. Clara jumped into his timeline, but all her other incarnations just have to put up with it. I prefer the ordinary human companion, its more relatable than ClaraClone. She reminds me of a Barbie doll, and he telling her what to wear or insulting her appearance to control her. Clara has no backbone, she lets him insult her and mess with her life, she strikes me as a classic masochist keep going back for more punishment. Instead of being happy with Danny she cant resist the pain, and loses real life a real relationship for some flake in a box. I don't like Capaldi's incarnation, its dead behind the eyes.

by Pettytyrant101 Sun May 17, 2015 9:10 pm

Oh what short memories you both have.

First Figg, this is so typical of you- first make a completely unfounded assertion about Moffats writing- namely none of the character stuff throughout series 8 is planned, then when that is instantly refuted with, you know, the actual facts, you just shift ground and attack Moffat for whatever the new angle you've dreamt up is.

As to Clara being born to save the Doctor and that being somehow creepy- have we forgotten Rose? The companion that wont die?
The girl who burned up entire suns, put not just our universe, but multiple universes at risk just to get back to her Doctor, even though she has a human version of him who loves her in her own universe?
The girl so important not just our universe ,but every universe ever, anywhere, can only be saved by her?
Rose, the most single mindedly obsessed bunny-boiler in Who history?
Now that was creepy. But not as creepy as having a 900 year old fall in love with a 20 year old.

But as Ive said before if I hated a show as much as you two I wouldn't still be watching it, just as I stopped watching during RTD era due the huge levels of suck and waited for someone better to come along to write it.

by **Amarië** Sun May 17, 2015 9:28 pm

And you are still waiting, poor thing.

RTD should have let Rose go waaaay sooner.

But the CopyClaras are Stepfordwives.

by Pettytyrant101 Sun May 17, 2015 9:46 pm

But the CopyClaras are Stepfordwives.- Amarie

I just dont get that- it seems to me its just forcing your own preconceived dislike of anything Moffat does onto the character and the idea.

And the idea is not new in Who, its established- see City of Death and Count Scarlioni, all 12 of him splintered throughout time.
I don't remember anyone accusing Douglas Adams of just making stepford husbands.

RTD should have let Rose go waaaay sooner. - Amarie

Yeah about the second episode would have been my choice, when the Doctor should have realised what a self centred, self obsessed, unpleasant person she was.

by Mrs Figg Sun May 17, 2015 9:50 pm

Pettytyrant101 wrote:Oh what short memories you both have.

First Figg, this is so typical of you- first make a completely unfounded assertion about Moffats writing- namely none of the character stuff throughout series 8 is planned, then when that is instantly refuted with, you know, the actual facts, you just shift ground and attack Moffat for whatever the new angle you've dreamt up is.

Of course its typical its what I do best

As to Clara being born to save the Doctor and that being somehow creepy- have we forgotten Rose? The companion that wont die?
The girl who burned up entire suns, put not just our universe, but multiple universes at risk just to get back to her Doctor, even though she has a human version of him who loves her in her own universe?
The girl so important not just our universe ,but every universe ever, anywhere, can only be saved by her?
Rose, the most single mindedly obsessed bunny-boiler in Who history?
Now that was creepy. But not as creepy as having a 900 year old fall in love with a 20 year old.

Rose chose her destiny. nuff said.

But as Ive said before if I hated a show as much as you two I wouldn't still be watching it, just as I stopped watching during RTD era due the huge levels of suck and waited for someone better to come along to write it.

But I live in hope the good old days will return

by Pettytyrant101 Sun May 17, 2015 9:55 pm

Rose chose her destiny. nuff said.- Figg

How exactly? She was taken for the Doctor by accident and against her will and trapped in a parallel universe.
Then she came back from that universe, having seemingly abandoned her human Doctor, god knows where, probably saw someone better looking and just dumped him on a whim going on previous actions.
Then she is forcibly sent back to her own dimension at the end- where exactly is the choice in all this?