The Bigger, Badder, Even More Serious Thread

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Post by Pettytyrant101 Sat Oct 14, 2023 4:34 pm

{{ So much for safe passage, even assuming you do miraculously make it to a crossing point without Israel blowing you to bits-

'Some reporting now from the Rafah crossing... around 500 people holding foreign passports have been trying to get out, with no success....“The border crossing itself isn’t safe, there’s bombing and there’s no shelter. People got messages telling them to be there from 12 to 3pm local time but at no time during that window was the crossing open” he told the BBC....Nationalities at the border included American, British, French, Chinese, Swiss and Swedish passport holders. The vast majority were dual nationals also holding a Palestinian passport.

“Some of them are in touch with their embassies, who told them to return to their homes. But some of them don’t have homes to go back to. It’s impossible”.
On his Instagram page, he posted an interview with a young girl holding a British passport.
“I am scared of dying. There’s no water, electricity, internet” she says. “There’s bombing everywhere, and I just don’t know where to go. Where should I go?”

Well Western governments? These are our people, don't you have a duty to protect them and get them out of danger? And no word of condemnation for the fact the Israeli 'safe passages' are a lethal joke and their border crossings won't even let people out.

I should mention, this is the very same crossing the US is telling people to go to-

'The US government is encouraging its citizens in Gaza to move south toward the Rafah crossing with Egypt.'- BBC}}

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Post by Pettytyrant101 Sat Oct 14, 2023 4:37 pm

{{ yet more war crimes, if Putin were doing these things in Ukraine we'd be at open war with him already-}}

'28 medical staff have been killed in Gaza since the start of the conflict last Saturday...two hospitals in the Strip (Beit Hanoun and Al Dura hospital for children) are out of service, and 15 other medical centers have been damaged.'

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Post by Pettytyrant101 Sat Oct 14, 2023 4:49 pm

{{ Pro-Palestinian rallies are taking place in pretty much every major UK city including London, Cambridge, Manchester, Glasgow, and Edinburgh with thousands attending at each one. What ever public sympathy and support Israel had, its fast losing it with its actions which are quickly exceeding the atrocities committed by Hamas. And who many folk dont believe ever had the moral right to occupy Palestinian land in the first place. }}

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Post by Pettytyrant101 Sat Oct 14, 2023 7:42 pm

{{ It just gets more depressing. }}

'The UN relief agency operating in Gaza has said its shelters in the northern part of the territory "are not safe anymore" - calling it "unprecedented".
"This war should be no exception," UNRWA said in a statement. "Protection of civilians and civilian infrastructure including UN buildings applies to this conflict too." - BBC

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Post by halfwise Sat Oct 14, 2023 7:51 pm

Ain't gonna happen, but the USA is one of the few countries that could declare the complete embargo illegal, run the blockade and deliver food, water, and fuel for hospitals.  And offer protection to aid groups.

I can see letting it go for a few days to see if it shakes any Hamas out of the woodwork, offered up by the locals. But one day after water runs out it needs to be delivered.

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Post by Pettytyrant101 Sun Oct 15, 2023 2:17 am

{{ There surely has to come a time when the West simply cant keep pretending its not noticed Israel breaking every international law on conducting warfare. }}


'The World Health Organization (WHO) says it strongly condemns Israel's orders for the evacuation of 22 hospitals treating more than 2,000 patients in northern Gaza.
"Forcing more than 2,000 patients to relocate to southern Gaza... could be tantamount to a death sentence," the statement says. It also warns that many civilians are seeking refuge around hospitals, saying that their lives, too, are at risk "when health facilities are bombed".- BBC


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Post by Pettytyrant101 Sun Oct 15, 2023 2:59 am

{{ Nice to have the US Ambassador clear up a moral issue for us. In response to questions about Israel killing children he responded that it was Hamas who cut off children's heads and, you know that's worse.
So to be clear the US views cutting a child's head off at close quarters as morally bad and unjustifiable. But blowing a children's limbs off, crushing them to death under collapsing masonry or leaving them to die a slow agonising death from mass traumatic injury as a result of indiscriminate bombing of civilians is A-OK. Good to know! }}

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Post by Mrs Figg Sun Oct 15, 2023 12:44 pm

Anyone shown to have support for Hamas needs deporting asap. trouble is this is difficult to separate from support for Palestine in general, but not impossible if they check peoples social media posts.. But some people are pretty obvious. like BLM for example. if it was up to me the Hamas apologists would be on a chartered one-way flight back to their country of origin. The British apologists would be in prison for supporting a terrorist organization no different from ISIS. if have heard of some gruesome shit in my life, but that lot of evil bastards beggars belief.
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Post by Pettytyrant101 Sun Oct 15, 2023 12:52 pm

{{ The indiscriminate slaughter of civilians is inexcusable, on both sides. But terrorist is a complicated term. The IRA were terrorists, but members who ordered and took part in the bombing of civilians, torture, murder and kidnap, all tools used by the IRA too, now sit as respected politicians in NI Parliament. The political wing of the IRA, Sinn Féin still exists and is a political party competing for democratic votes. Would NI have peace if the IRA had not first committed the atrocities that eventually forced both sides to the table? Its not an easy question, and has no easy answers.

But however you cut it you can't treat all Palestinians as Hamas as Israel are. That would be like the UK government responding to the IRA by just carpet bombing all the catholic areas of Northern Ireland and reducing them to rubble. I would have been a hideous over reaction and a massive war crime if we had done that, and it is now that Israel are doing that to the Palestinians.
Eventually both sides have to be taken to the table- Hamas has to recognise Israel and it's right to exist, and Israel has to recognise the illegality of its settlements and occupation and agree proper terms for two states.
Terrorists dont come from nowhere, they are the end result of systematic persecution of a people.}}

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Post by Pettytyrant101 Sun Oct 15, 2023 1:00 pm

{{ Uk Foreign Sec has been doing the tv rounds, pretty pathetically.

He said 'Hamas is to blame for the suffering of the Palestinian people' so he's basically backing a war crime here, the collective punishment of a people for the actions of a group within them, completely illegal under international law.

He than had the gall to add, "The UK government is absolutely committed to the adherence of international law," He insisted the British government raises any breaches with Israel.

Even if they do they are clearly being ignored as is very next comment makes clear when asked about the only route out for civilians the Rafah crossing, he 'admitted the UK government has been trying to get the Rafah crossing open through talks with Egypt and Israel and has so far been unsuccessful.- BBC
So much for keeping Israel in line, we can't even get them to open the crossing to let Palestinian civilians escape, or even British passport holders trapped in Gaza. Another war crime. Although forcing an entire population to move out under threat of military action is, you've guessed it, also a war crime, the displacement of people is illegal.}}

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Post by Pettytyrant101 Sun Oct 15, 2023 1:32 pm

{{ Its not Hamas Israel is massacring as we speak, its these people-

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WHO says the order to close all the hospital is a death sentence to those on life support, babies in incubators and such. Is this who we want to kill for Hama's atrocities?

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This man is searching the rubble of their home for his three grandchildren who were inside when Israel bombed civilian housing. These people, those children, are no ones enemy. And they cannot be treated this way, especially not with our support. }}

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Post by halfwise Sun Oct 15, 2023 3:27 pm

At least America is saying clearly that humanitarian supplies should be allowed to flow and are actively working on getting that arranged. But there is a refusal to directly condemn Israeli actions.

There are indications that bus attack was a false flag attack by Hamas for propaganda purposes. But that may be Israeli counter propaganda.

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Post by Pettytyrant101 Sun Oct 15, 2023 4:27 pm

{{ I would think Hamas are rather busy, and if we start allowing Israel the excuse of 'honest it wasnt us gov it was Hamas' (an excuse they have used countless times in the past including the recent murder of an Arabic news journalist, that in the end turned out to be Israle after all who did it) then we give them a licence to what they want and escape any blame or punishment. }}

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Post by Pettytyrant101 Mon Oct 16, 2023 5:32 pm

{{ Things are spiralling out of control. The Israeli Ambassador was on Sky News, but asked about the humanitarian crisis in Gaza she first said there was no humanitarian crisis, when the reporter pushed back on this she said was Hamas fault, and then added Hamas were responsible for the civilians in Gaza not Israel. She was also very emotional, almost in tears at several points talking about the babies and children massacred by Hamas, and quite right they are atrocities, but so it's blowing a baby up or crushing children to a slow death beneath rubble. Distance is not the deciding factor in morality.

Meanwhile in reality where Israel continues to perpetrate war crimes-
'
Water is running out and there are huge queues at bakeries where bread is rationed to five pieces per family. Hospitals are close to a complete collapse of services, threatening thousands of lives, says the UN.
The UN Palestinian refugee agency UNRWA told the BBC on Monday that the 6000 displaced people at its Rafah logistics base were down to one litre of water per person per day.
It also posted on social media that a quarter of a million people had moved to its shelters in the past 24 hours - the majority of them in Unrwa schools where "clean water has actually run out".
More than 1,000 are still missing under houses and buildings destroyed in Israeli air strikes on Gaza.
The border between Egypt and Gaza is still closed, despite earlier reports that it was about to reopen to foreign nationals. Crowds have gathered at the Rafah crossing, waiting to be let through.
There is no way for people to leave Gaza right now - as all crossings are closed - and no way for aid to get in. Egypt's foreign minister said Israel has yet to take a stance to allow the crossing to open.
Almost half of the wounded coming to hospital in Gaza are children, some of whom are sole survivors of their families, a doctor has told the BBC’s Today programme.' BBC

And all this barbarity and war crimes against civilians for the crimes of the few (itself a war crime) is pushing the whole region towards conflict-

'Iran’s Foreign Minister, Hossein Amirabdollahian, has warned that the possibility of the war between Israel and Hamas spreading to other fronts “is approaching (the) unavoidable stage”.
“time is running out for political solutions” and accused Israel of “crimes and murder in Gaza”.
He wrote: “Conferred with my counterparts from Malaysia, Pakistan, Tunisia. Underlined the need to immediately stop Zionist crimes and murder in Gaza and to dispatch humanitarian aid.
"I stressed that time is running out for political solutions; probable spread of war in other fronts is approaching unavoidable stage.”}}

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Post by halfwise Mon Oct 16, 2023 7:16 pm

Supply ships should be escorted to the beaches. This is something the UN can do under UN flags, with a last minute announcement once the ships are just outside the blockade. If it's done quickly I don't think the Israeli blockade would have time to figure out what to do.

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Post by Pettytyrant101 Tue Oct 17, 2023 10:40 am

{{ If Israel continue on like this they are going to escalate this war to the whole region. They cannot just keep committing atrocities and war crimes.
Last night they bombed the refugees they had told to go south for safety. Not once but three times.

'What happened overnight was a very worrying sign for those people who evacuated. The local authority here said Israel killed more than 100 people in three air strikes. Most of them are refugees from the north.- BBC

If they keep committing war crimes against civilians it will inevitable bring in groups like Hezbollah, they wont sit back forever and let this continue and the US is running fast out of time to reign Israel back to conducting a legal war. }}

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Post by Pettytyrant101 Tue Oct 17, 2023 10:55 am

{{ Israels military spokesman has told the BBC "There is no humanitarian crisis in Gaza."
If they wont even acknowledge the suffering they are inflicting on innocent people what hope is there? }}

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Post by Pettytyrant101 Tue Oct 17, 2023 5:49 pm

{{ Ive seen both Western diplomats and politicians and Israeli politicians today arguing blind there are no war crimes, and yet the reports keep coming of blatant war crimes-

'At least six people have been killed when a school was hit during air strikes in the al-Maghazi refugee camp in the Gaza Strip, the United Nations says.
Dozens of others were injured, and it's thought the numbers will increase, according to the statement from the United Nations Relief and Works Agency for Palestine Refugees in the Near East (UNRWA). “This is outrageous, and it again shows a flagrant disregard for the lives of civilians," the statement adds.- BBC }}

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Post by Pettytyrant101 Tue Oct 17, 2023 6:53 pm

{ BBC are breaking news that Israel just bombed a hospital in Gaza killing about 500 people }}

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Post by Pettytyrant101 Wed Oct 18, 2023 11:31 am

{{ So Israel say 'it wasnt us honest guv' it was terrorists who misfired their rocket. Problem is Israel has a history of lying about the actions of the Israeli Defence Force and blaming their crimess on Palestinians, so well done to the reporter from CNN who called them out on this, citing the most recent example of a reporter murdered by the IDF who then blamed Palestinian terrorists, problem was all the evidence said they did it, eventually they admitted there was a 'high probability' but no recognition it was them was ever fully given, no investigation was conducted, and no one was held to account for her murder.
The reply they gave to the CNN question was to admit that Israel had been quick to jump to conclusions in the past, but honest we aren't this time we really mean it this time.

Another problem is emerging information from the hospital as reported by CNN -

'Officials in Gaza said on Wednesday that the Al-Ahli hospital was damaged by two Israeli shells four days ago, after which the Israel Defence Forces warned the hospital’s management to evacuate the premises.
Youssef Abu Al-Rish, the Deputy Health Minister in Gaza, said that two Israeli shells hit the hospital on Saturday.
Al-Rish said that on the following day, the IDF contacted the manager of the hospital, Dr. Maher Ayad, criticizing him for “not evacuating the facility.”
Al-Rish said the IDF had told Ayad that the shells had been a warning.'

So three days before it was shelled Israeli deliberately struck the hospital with two shells as a warning, trying to force an evacuation. When the hospital refused to close its bombed to oblivion three days later, but Israel had nothing to do with it!

Of course the bigger problem is that at this point it probably doesn't even matter who did it, there was always this risk the narrative would outpace reality, Arabs in the region will not believe Israel they have lied so often in the past about their actions and used the 'it wasnt us it was them' excuse so often its the boy who cried wolf.}}

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The Bigger, Badder, Even More Serious Thread - Page 2 Empty Re: The Bigger, Badder, Even More Serious Thread

Post by halfwise Wed Oct 18, 2023 12:27 pm

If they gave the hospital warning shots I take it as confirmation that they bombed it. For what purpose?

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The Bigger, Badder, Even More Serious Thread - Page 2 Empty Re: The Bigger, Badder, Even More Serious Thread

Post by Pettytyrant101 Wed Oct 18, 2023 12:46 pm

{{ Even before this according to WHO and the UN 14 medical centres and hospitals had already been struck to one degree or another, including the main childrens hospital in Gaza. They've been bombing hospitals since they began.
As to why, I think it's because this isn't about justice, it's about vengeance and revenge and blood-letting.}}

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Post by Pettytyrant101 Wed Oct 18, 2023 4:12 pm

{{ Bidens managed a bit of good, late as it is. He's got Israel to agree to let some aid in through the Egypt crossing, but with caveats. No aid will come from Israel or to the north unless the hostages are released (another war crime incidentally, punishing civilians for the crimes of the few is illegal), and it's only to go to southern Gaza, the hundreds of thousands of civilians without food, water or fuel in the north will get no help. But its something at least, assuming Israel dont just bomb the crossing again soon as it opens. }}

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Post by halfwise Wed Oct 18, 2023 4:26 pm

The amount of aid that's needed can only come by ship anyway. It will take a few days to arrive, and Gaza's not that big.

There's also a claim that US observations back up the Israeli claim that they didn't bomb the hospital, but I don't know how they capture a 10 second rocket flight unless high surveillance aircraft are recording constantly, which could be the truth. In which case it would go a long way if that video was published. It would probably be disregarded as a fake though, especially if not released immediately.

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Post by Pettytyrant101 Wed Oct 18, 2023 4:46 pm

{{ I have been reading the US claims, and Im not convinced yet. One of the main arguments put forward by the IDF in their presentation was the lack of any craters which you would get from shelling and which would be absent were it a rocket explosion. Problem is there are craters at the site as reported by the BBC- }}

The Bigger, Badder, Even More Serious Thread - Page 2 131467465-crater1-nc-png

The Bigger, Badder, Even More Serious Thread - Page 2 131467467-crater12-nc-png


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