Amazon, Warner Bros in Talks for LOTR Series Adaptation: Variety

Eldorion wrote:

azriel wrote:You guys go into it all serious & deep. Me ? I'm just light & fluffy

(even though I'm semi-retired now).

I think you earned your Tolkien loremaster pension some years back anyway Eldo.

I'm a firm believer in the idea that there's no "right" way to be a fan

I may dislike The Hobbit films intently, but I certainly don't begrudge others for enjoying them, I'm only dissapointed because I cared...

I mean, "Lorists" and independent fan-scholars have been a significant part of Tolkien fandom for a long time.

Indeed, some of the Tolkien biographical/scholarly books I've read sometimes draw on fan essays or commentary dating back to the 1960's...

If the casting, sets, costumes and music are as good as GoT, and they don't try to throw boobies and Elven love triangles into the mix, and if they give me Tom Bombadil, I may just get excited about this. Because the moment I saw the Dwarves in the Hobbit, I knew it was going to suck troll balls.

I rather enjoyed the Unexpected Party bit. It largely had the right feel to it. Then it quickly went downhill.

halfwise wrote:I rather enjoyed the Unexpected Party bit.  It largely had the right feel to it.  Then it quickly went downhill.

Harrumph. If by the "right feel" we mean dwarves that are rude and un-dwarven, then we would be correct! Oh, and poop jokes, of course. Because haha isn't it funny that the dwarves backed up the plumbing?

not to mention 'that belch'

I got unreasonably annoyed at Bilbo frying a whole fish with bothering to descale it first, even worse that Dwalin proceeded to eat the whole thing without the aid on utensils, how hilarious

Welp, sounds like it's official now.

‘Lord of the Rings’ Series Moving Forward at Amazon With Multi-Season Production Commitment - Variety

Amazon Sets ‘The Lord of the Rings’ TV Series With Multi-Season Commitment - Deadline

The stories were posted two minutes apart and both quote a statement by one Matt Galsor who apparently represents the Estate and HarperCollins. Still sifting through all this at the moment.

Sums up my feelings.

Set in Middle Earth, the television adaptation will explore new storylines preceding “The Fellowship of the Ring.”

Er, what?

OK, I'm confused neither of those articles mention the Saul Zanetz company or Middle Earth Enterprises, are they involved or not? Does this mean the Tolkien Estate actually retained the TV rights to LOTR?

More intriguingly I wonder why Christopher Tolkien changed his mind-it certainly wouldn't have been just for the money, Peter Jackson must feel a bit pissed given Christopher's comments about his films...

Perhaps the most important part:

Variety wrote:Set in Middle Earth, the television adaptation will explore new storylines preceding “The Fellowship of the Ring.” The deal also includes a potential additional spin-off series. The series will be produced by Amazon Studios in cooperation with the Tolkien Estate and Trust, HarperCollins and New Line Cinema, a division of Warner Bros. Entertainment.

Both articles quote an Amazon Studios exec as saying they're working with the Estate and HarperCollins, so it's hard to keeping arguing that there's a mistake being made here. Yet Deadline's article in particular still doesn't make much sense:

Deadline wrote:The Tolkien estate and publisher HarperCollins filed the massive lawsuit in November 2012 against Warner Bros., its subsidiary New Line and Middle-earth Enterprises — a division of  Rings’ Hobbit rightsholder the Saul Zaentz Co. — claiming copyright infringement and breach of contract over video games, online slot machines and other digital merchandising.

While the $80-million lawsuit was settled in July, the two sides have not gotten closer, and the Tolkien estate shopped the TV series on its own, not with Warner Bros. TV, which would have been a logical partner. WBTV is not a studio on the LOTR series, which will be produced by Amazon Studios.

They acknowledge the existence of Middle-earth Enterprises but that's it, so ... maybe there was something to the speculation that the rights situation changed as a result of the settlement? Yet the subsequent paragraph makes even less sense. The deal might not involve WBTV but it does involve New Line, which is a division of WB (and was named in the Estate's lawsuit), so spinning this as a sign of lingering animosity is really weird. But what do I know?

So does the Tolkien Estate actually have a creative role in this, or merely protecting their financial interests? find it very very unlikely Christopher Tolkien would ever sanction a TV spinoff...perhaps he has retired?

Still trying to process this...

Simul with Malickfan.

As I mentioned back on the first page spin-offs make more sense and I have actually been expecting one to be announced for a while, though I was not expecting it to be a TV series. So it'll be interesting to see what they come up with there even if my hopes aren't high. A lot depends on the screenwriter they get I guess but it'll be heard to see it as anything but sanctioned fanfic tbh.

I give up on trying to figure out the legal situation.

Yeah, I don't think I like the sound of this.

Well, PJ never got the rights to the appendices, and there's quite a bit of LotR preliminary material in there. They really need to stop calling this a LotR TV show.

Maybe we should create a new sub forum for this TV series, it's probably going to be less of an adaptation and more fan fiction prequel.

Maybe Thranduil mentioning Aragorn to Legolas in TBOTFA was a set up for a spinoff Tv series afterall...

halfwise wrote:Well, PJ never got the rights to the appendices, and there's quite a bit of LotR preliminary material in there.  They really need to stop calling this a LotR TV show.

The rights to the Appendices were sold along with LOTR. That's how PJ was able to include material from The Tale of Aragorn and Arwen and (*barfs*) the Dol Guldur subplot in TH.

malickfan wrote:Maybe we should create a new sub forum for this TV series, it's probably going to be less of an adaptation and more fan fiction prequel.

Maybe Thranduil mentioning Aragorn to Legolas in TBOTFA was a set up for a spinoff Tv series afterall...

It's certainly a brave new world. I am curious how closely they'll try to tie it to the PJ films. Being a spin-off I'd put the odds of that higher than if this were a fresh adaptation of the original story. But who knows.

A new subforum might make sense. Some time ago we discussed the possibility of changing the domain name if something like this came to pass; I notice that since then forumshire.com has become available once more. But such decisions are of course in Amarië's hands. I'm kinda glad I got out when I did 'cause I'm not sure how much energy I'll be able to muster for this. So it's not really my place to argue strongly for any given course of action here.

{{{Thanks for your kind words re: my "pension", btw. }}}

Eldorion wrote:

halfwise wrote:Well, PJ never got the rights to the appendices, and there's quite a bit of LotR preliminary material in there.  They really need to stop calling this a LotR TV show.

The rights to the Appendices were sold along with LOTR. That's how PJ was able to include material from The Tale of Aragorn and Arwen and (*barfs*) the Dol Guldur subplot in TH.

Hmm...I remember there was something they couldn't tell, oh that's right - they didn't have rights to Unfinished Tales so couldn't use dialog and scenes from both the White Council and Thorin's meeting with Gandalf in the Prancing Pony.

Yeah, all of Tolkien's posthumously published works are (or were) off-limits. Tolkien sold the rights to TH and LOTR before he died; the Estate never sold anything after his death.

Now, though ... who the fuck knows? If the Estate really is involved maybe they've licensed out more. Even if they did put The Silmarillion on the table, I could see Amazon wanting to stick to stories with a more direct connection to LOTR, at least initially, due to the name recognition and greater possibilities for crossover characters. But yeah I really have no clue.

Eldorion wrote:Yeah, all of Tolkien's posthumously published works are (or were) off-limits. Tolkien sold the rights to TH and LOTR before he died; the Estate never sold anything after his death.

Now, though ... who the fuck knows? If the Estate really is involved maybe they've licensed out more. Even if they did put The Silmarillion on the table, I could see Amazon wanting to stick to stories with a more direct connection to LOTR, at least initially, due to the name recognition and greater possibilities for crossover characters. But yeah I really have no clue.

It also raises the question that if the Tolkien Estate does decide to license the rights to The Silmarillion etc for some mad reason...which Silmarillion would they be licensing, the book compiled by Christopher Tolkien, or the various materials published in Unfinished Tales and The HOME? An adaptation of the The Silmarillion would effectively be fan fiction almost entirely created by the screenwriters, but the compiled book of the same name isn't even canonical anyway...

Fuck it, let's get the Cottage of Lost Play and Tevildo Prince of Cats on screen while we can...

So perhaps there's hope for the Talking purse to appear on screen afterall, I could update my forum pic...

Eldorion wrote:Welp, sounds like it's official now.

‘Lord of the Rings’ Series Moving Forward at Amazon With Multi-Season Production Commitment - Variety

Amazon Sets ‘The Lord of the Rings’ TV Series With Multi-Season Commitment - Deadline

The stories were posted two minutes apart and both quote a statement by one Matt Galsor who apparently represents the Estate and HarperCollins. Still sifting through all this at the moment.

There's been an awakening...have you felt it?

CHRISTOPHER HOW COULD YOU BETRAY US!!!?!?!?!?!?!?!!

bungobaggins wrote:
There's been an awakening...have you felt it?

No, but I'm Pretty sure I just heard Petty explode in a buckie induced rage of shock

I'm assuming this will increase forum traffic though...