Watching LOTR for the first time in four years

halfwise wrote:
Egad, Fellowship must have looked like a masterpiece in comparison.

I take it you read the Hobbit before seeing the movie?  In any case, what was your take on AUJ?

Yes I did read the Hobbit the summer before seeing the movie. At that time I was getting through Fellowship at my usual turtle pace.

I must confess that at the time I loved the film more than any other, and embarrassingly watched it once a week after I bought it on DVD. Everything about it seemed so fresh to me it's my mind was forced to fall in love with it. Now whenever I watch it increasingly it becomes more boring for me. The action scenes fall flat. The dialogue is cheesy, and SO much foreshadowing in it. Bleh.

Pettytyrant101 wrote:Oh yeah, the crabbit, its a-coming

:edge of seat emoticon:

:tar and feather brigade waiting outside Jackson's palace emoticon:

:grey, not white, horse emoticon:

davidjoneshoward wrote:

halfwise wrote:
Egad, Fellowship must have looked like a masterpiece in comparison.

I take it you read the Hobbit before seeing the movie?  In any case, what was your take on AUJ?

Yes I did read the Hobbit the summer before seeing the movie. At that time I was getting through Fellowship at my usual turtle pace.

I must confess that at the time I loved the film more than any other, and embarrassingly watched it once a week after I bought it on DVD. Everything about it seemed so fresh to me it's my mind was forced to fall in love with it. Now whenever I watch it increasingly it becomes more boring for me. The action scenes fall flat. The dialogue is cheesy, and SO much foreshadowing in it. Bleh.

Parts of it do hold up, here and there. Interesting hearing a fresh perspective on it.

halfwise wrote:

Parts of it do hold up, here and there.  Interesting hearing a fresh perspective on it.

True, your right. I though a couple moments during Bilbo's unexpected party were good, like when Balin and Thorin were talking about the quest, and Gandalf was telling Bilbo if he came back he would never be the same. I also thought the moon runes scene was good. The Gollum scene was great, almost LOTRish. But especially when Bilbo is about to leave and Bofur talks to him, and he later explains why he came back, that's my favorite of them all. I'm sure there a couple more here and there.

My main reason for basically hating the movie is because I used to love it so much more than I should have, which makes it all the more embarrassing

We've all had embarrassing crushes.

I dont think you should be embarrassed DJH, I dont think people should apologize for their feelings ? its a learning curve sometimes. I wont be embarrassed for how i feel or felt at any particular time, Actions maybe, oh yeah ! Ive made some right goofs that I would love to erase from memory ! As for TH, being in the Shire & in Bilbo's home was LOTRS-ish, & so was Gollums wet, slappy cave, I felt. But I got no other good feelings from that abysmal film, apart from a burning, sickie sensation which I know now to be Acid Reflux !

Yeah, I think the thing about positive feelings are that they are.. positive. So, even if the degree you get caught up in them might be embarrassing in hindsight, the only way those feelings become a negative is if you treat them as they are.

And don't we all see positivity and enthusiasm as the most positive thing about other people?

I'm with Azriel. You shouldn't feel self conscious for falling for stuff. It's natural.

Well said that man

Feelings allow you to change, open your eyes & see the world & its ever moving changes. Ive said before that us humans are like diamonds, multi faceted & I think thats a good thing !

Ive said before that us humans are like diamonds- Azriel

I think I must be in the rough then!

davidjoneshoward wrote:Oh by no means do I think Fellowship is a perfect film. I just think that it captured all the magic from lord of the rings. And also, I think the reason why it feels perfect is after contextualizing it to the other films, like you noted yourself (I think I'm the only person on this forum that saw AUJ before any other Middle Earth movie)

Ah, I see what you mean, and I think I agree. I've tried to avoid too much hyperbole but certainly my feeling when reaching the end of Fellowship was one of more or less complete satisfaction. Some of the other stuff comes back when reflecting on the movie later. That's in part because it goes out on such a high note; there a few things (like Gandalf going to Isengard as Blue mentioned) that bug me in the moment but are forgotten as the movie goes on.

davidjoneshoward wrote:Yes I did read the Hobbit the summer before seeing the movie. At that time I was getting through Fellowship at my usual turtle pace.

I must confess that at the time I loved the film more than any other, and embarrassingly watched it once a week after I bought it on DVD. Everything about it seemed so fresh to me it's my mind was forced to fall in love with it. Now whenever I watch it increasingly it becomes more boring for me. The action scenes fall flat. The dialogue is cheesy, and SO much foreshadowing in it. Bleh.

I understand how you feel, but I'll tell you the same thing I've told other (considerably older) people who enjoyed AUJ before becoming disillusioned after DOS. There's nothing to be embarrassed about in enjoying a movie. The more movies you watch, the better you'll become at seeing flaws and assessing them "objectively". I think this can help us appreciate truly great movies even more, but there's something to be said for finding enjoyment wherever you can. I was more positive on AUJ when it first came out because I was excited to be there on day one, even though I was expecting (and got) a disappointment, but the positive vibe made me slightly more positive about the film than I was a year later when I watched the objectively better EE without all the buzz.

NB My first exposure to Middle-earth (after months of refusing to read the books) was the Two Towers tie-in video game, and my first Star Wars movie was The Phantom Menace, so we all have our dirty little secrets of fandom.

davidjoneshoward wrote:True, your right. I though a couple moments during Bilbo's unexpected party were good, like when Balin and Thorin were talking about the quest, and Gandalf was telling Bilbo if he came back he would never be the same. I also thought the moon runes scene was good. The Gollum scene was great, almost LOTRish. But especially when Bilbo is about to leave and Bofur talks to him, and he later explains why he came back, that's my favorite of them all. I'm sure there a couple more here and there.

I think my favorite such moment in AUJ was Bilbo's "you don't have a home" speech, which I had first glimpsed in a 30 second TV spot (though I saw it online) and loved there. In its full context in the finished film it was even better. I agree with you about most of the scenes you mention too. Riddles in the Dark definitely was a highlight, and one of the few examples of changes (Gollum closer to his LOTR characterization with the split personalities and all) being effective. And the Bofur scene is definitely great.

You just need a good buffing Petty

Does that involve taking my kilt off Because I've already had my annual bath in Rushock Bog and I'm not having another one!

Bluebottle wrote:Well, you almost inspired me to watch the EE cut of Fellowship yesterday. But it was already after eleven and I thought four hours was a bit optimistic. I might try again later though.

Yeah, I've had several days in the past couple weeks where I really wanted to watch the next film but didn't have time. That's the downside of them being so long. Hopefully I'll be able to see TTT soon though. If you do watch Fellowship or any of the other, be sure to post some thoughts on here! I'm curious to know what you guys think with fresh eyes.

Bluebottle wrote:You certainly have a point in that many of the changes made, particularily to characterization, love them or hate them, were consistent, and as such one really should judge them on their own merit. There are still stuff I don't fail to react to though. Like Gandalf leaving Frodo and Sam in the Shire and them five minutes later running into a Nazgul. Oh, and Gandalf riding back and forth to Isengard in the time it takes the Hobbits to reach Rivendell... I guess faults in logic are harder to ignore.

I think you're right that most of the logical inconsistencies have to do with the plot or setting rather than the characters. In the past that stuff bugged me more, but these days I tend to find characterization more important. I think you're exaggerating how soon they encounter the Nazgul though. In the EE especially; the insertion of the wood elves seen (which should really be high elves, but that's neither here nor there) establishes an entire day and night passing for Frodo and Sam before they even meet Merry and Pippin. And even without that scene, it's clearly the middle of the day when they encounter Merry and Pippin so at least several hours would have had to pass since their early morning departure with Gandalf.

As for Gandalf going to and from Isengard, this has always bugged me. It's one of several geographical absurdities that are highlighted further by the movies reproducing the same maps from the books. The Paths of the Dead opening up on Pelargir is another one that bugs me, but at least that is understandable for dramatic reasons. I think for sheer distances involved, Gandalf going to and from Isengard is the worst offender in either trilogy, but if we role with the assumption that Gandalf could have made the round trip in a couple of days (and because he wasn't aware of the Nine being on the loose until Saruman told him), it sorta makes sense. I got the sense that movie!Gandalf had a bad feeling about taking the Ring directly to Saruman even if he couldn't put his finger on it.

At the end of the day though, as a fan of Avatar: The Last Airbender, I've had to learn to let geographical impossibilities slide. I don't like 'em, I think they detract from both the story and the worldbuilding, but I don't let them ruin otherwise enjoyable stories for me.

That kilt comes off ?? I thought it was welded on ? Rushock Bog ! you wot ! You sneaked a dip in behind my back didnt you ? You get a leech on yer arse its your own fault Hells Jupiter you could have contaminated my herborial garden

Gandalf going to and from Isengard never bothered at all, because I aways assumed that Frodo fell into a short coma after he was stabbed by the Witch King. I thought he must have been asleep for days and days.

That kilt comes off ?? I thought it was welded on ? Rushock Bog ! you wot ! You sneaked a dip in behind my back didnt you ? You get a leech on yer arse its your own fault Laughing Hells Jupiter you could have contaminated my herborial garden- Azriel

Well for some inexplicable reason Dave would not let me use his slurry tank, so Bog it was. Not sure I'm clean but in a certain light I do have a lovely green algae sheen As to your herbs, never fear, check Daves fields out- I'm positively a biological boom to an ecosystem (though admittedly the actual harvests are not be entirely fit for human consumption and have an alcohol content that would put most spirits to shame)

davidjoneshoward wrote:Gandalf going to and from Isengard never bothered at all, because I aways assumed that Frodo fell into a short coma after he was stabbed by the Witch King. I thought he must have been asleep for days and days.

The issue with the Isengard thing is that Gandalf thinks he'd be able to make it from the Shire, there, and then back up to Bree in less time than it would take Frodo and Sam to walk to Bree (since he tells them he'll be waiting for them at the Prancing Pony).  In the book this works because he tells Frodo to leave "soon, not instantly"; Frodo then spends several months saying goodbye to the Shire and arranging for a cover story.  In the book Gandalf and Frodo both leave Hobbiton mere hours after confirming that the ring is the One Ring, an understandable change for dramatic/pacing reasons, but one for which the logical implications were either not thought out or were deliberately ignored in favor of preserving other plot details from the book (ie, Frodo and Sam not having Gandalf with them during the trip across Eriador).

You are of course correct that Frodo was in a coma of sorts in Rivendell and it's during that time when Gandalf returns.

Well, maybe he knew it was a trap and had planned ahead of time for an eagle to take him?

Can you blame Dave ? tho I guess if you've been dipping in his slurry the choice will be either big cranberries or teeny tiny cranberries A phosphorous glow will pick you out among the heather wont it

There's 2 lines of conversation going here

I'm still waiting for Petty's promised response.

There's 2 lines of conversation going here - Azriel

Tis the Forumnshire way of things (especially when 1 of them is completely off topic )

'I'm still waiting for Petty's promised response.'- Eldo

Oh dont you dare young Eldo, dont you dare!! You are already on very dangerous ground as it only seemed proper given I haven't seen it in years to watch PJ original again- and boy are you going to pay for that, I dont know when, I dont how- but you will pay for this suffering!!!

I was hoping you'd watch the original edits again (or the EE, whichever) but I was nervous about suggesting the idea to you. Glad to hear it though! Take all the time you need.

By Eru's mystic sporran! The crabbit!!      - four crabbit meters down in flames and its still got 230 minutes to go.
MORE BUCKIE!!!!!