The Battle of the Five Armies, final trailer

I didnt say they were good films, just that they are not badly made like TH films. I still think they are bad films, especially RotK which is a mess of a film from a script perspective.

That's not what I heard.

Well its not my fault what you heard. I know what I meant!!

They are not badly made films. They're poorly made films.

There's a distinction.

halfwise wrote:Yes, because we love Tolkien we get upset to see things done that Tolkien would never countenance.

But some changes PJ made have passed muster here.  Swapping Glorfindel for Arwen was okay, and everyone likes Gandalf's words of comfort to Pippin in Minas Tirith.  Some of us think the Arwen dream sequences added rather than detracted from the story.

Notice all the examples are from LotR.  A few things were cute in the Hobbit, like the money bags flying around following the bet on whether Bilbo would show or not I thought was cute.  Some people hated it, but hey.  Most changes in the Hobbit however, were just not acceptable in the way many of the changes in LotR were.

I couldn't agree more halfy.

A few things I did feel worked in the Hobbit, the dwarfs all coming in to save Bilbo from the trolls together. I thought it was a rather good change. I mean I enjoy the book version but 1 dwarf coming in at a time with a sack going over his head would have just taken too long. That and Thorin arriving later than all the other dwarfs at Baggend, it gave them time to show how light hearted they can be (chip the glasses) and how serious and a stick in the mud Thorin must be for the fun to stop as soon as he arrives. That's about it for the changes that I liked. I also agree with the deletion of the talking purse. (Sorry Malick) But again those changes felt natural from book to screen AND they fit the tone of LOTR. I didn't mind the opening with Frodo although it was more lip service to the fans of LOTR than anything else. There really was no merit in having it there otherwise. I will say the betting scene was cute and humorous. Once they got on the road, any changes or additions Jackson made were just out of control and OTT.

Personally I still would have had Gandalf rush Bilbo out of Baggend, I would have had Bilbo rush out of town without telling the world what he was doing. I would have kept the beginning of the trollshaws scene much closer to the book having the dwarfs soaking wet, losing ponies and supplies in the swollen river, seeing a fire in the distance and sending their "burglar" to investigate because they were cold, wet, tired, and hungry. Sending Bilbo to follow a path of destruction looking for ponies was just an example of a poor change IMHO when compared to the book. I would have had Bilbo wanting to carry a sword instead of a walking stick, instead of Gandalf forcing it upon him and giving a rehashed version of his speech to Frodo in the mines of Moria. And had Bilbo pretty much being a burden on the dwarfs until the spiders and flies section of the film. just little things that could have stayed closer to the source and made it more Tolkien-like but were changed for no real valid reason.

I'm starting to get a little antsy the closer we get...

Also, the use of the #OneLastTime hashtag (which was also in the trailer) is kinda encouraging.  Makes me hope that WB won't try to rush out an unnecessary spin-off after all.  I don't think PJ himself would, but that doesn't mean some over-eager producer at WB might not want to try.  But at the same time, I think they know that PJ's involvement lends a certain legitimacy to Middle-earth films since it's thanks to him that we've seen any live-action LOTR/Hobbit movies.

Ayup All...

Well, the last parts here, and the die has been long cast. I always got the feeling that the Hobbits fate was sealed when the Press slated Jacksie at the Initial 48FPS/HFR  screening. It was bad enuff that he'd long discarded us book fans long ago, but I think then he decided that as all he was only getting adoration from the Comic-conned, then that was the crowd for whom he would make the film. They became the new 'Fans' he always says he's made the films for,. But Ive watched the trailer a few times now, and like the Battle of the Hornburg (sorry Jason for reminding you of the shield-surfing and extra Elves) it does grow on you. But the extra bits with Saruman and Galadriel, well, I'm singing from the same Hymn sheet as you all there. And has anyone noticed now that Del Toros names more prominent now in the credits, and the Covens much less so ?

Sorry for the abscence. Real Life and everything. Back to the Dole and I lost a dear Cat on thursday...

Sorry for the life events Feanor (especially the cat), you seem to be taking it philosophically, which is the best approach.

Interesting about Del Toro, I wonder if we will here more about his hand in the work. Did the EE appendices for the first two movies say much?

Sorry to hear about your furry friend Feanor

Mmm, Id like to know how much input GDT gave also.

Its always good to know who is deserving of the blazing flame of crabbit

Sorry about the cat. Heartbreaking.

And sorry to hear about you being on the dole too. I know how that one feels. I got sent a interview the other day that was farcical. Supposed to last an hour, 6 of us sent to it, within 10 minutes there was me, everyone else had got up and walked out, and I only stayed that long for appearance sake. Zero hours contract, no pay whilst travelling between clients, no travel expenses for getting between clients, and then the killer line "we find it very difficult to find clients for male carers and probably couldn't find you more than a few hours work in a week."
Thats not a job offer its an insult.

I'm sorry about your cat and RL troubles, Stu. Best of luck moving forward.

About TH, Del Toro has gotten his writing credit for all three movies, but PJ has commented that most of the design work from pre-production when GDT was involved had been revised. I'd imagine the script changed quite a bit too, both from expected rewrites and because of the three film split. Also, Walsh and Boyens both have producer credits on TH, which GDT does not.

Thats shat Petty ! These job center minions think they can treat people how they like, they probably pre warn future employers of who is coming thru their door so your doomed right from the off. They dont care how insulting it is or how demoralising it feels. Its ok for them, theyre in a warm, cooshy job not hunting around with the hounds of blood on your back, Good luck to both of you, ( feanor & Petty )

sorry to hear of your loss Feanor.

thats odd about Del Toro, I wonder what that implies?

The writing credit is probably more of a guild obligation than anything else. GDT left early enough that I don't think many of his fingerprints are left on the finished films.

Going on the few bits and pieces we have seen of GDT's designs perhaps he has more in BoFA than any other of the films- i can see the giant trolls with goblins with siege engines on their backs coming from his imagination for example.

True, I could see that potentially being a GDT-ism.

I could actually see Thranduil's giant moose ride being a GDT thing too, though that's largely because he had said Thorin would have a helmet with antlers on it like he was Robert Baratheon (not that GDT made that reference because this was in like 2008).

Dwarves on wild boars also hints at GDT to me.

Pettytyrant101 wrote:Dwarves on wild boars also hints at GDT to me.

Giant Boar might be pretty cool actually, which figures that would be DelToro. I mean I've seen boar up to 400 and 500 pounds with tusks about 8 or 9 inches. Enough to rip a man apart. So I think it will be interesting to see what they come up with, I'm sure the CGI will be OTT but I can't think of a better mount for a dwarf to ride. Correct size, has a dwarfs temperament, easily trainable, and can be really ferocious

Only if they play Black Sabbath's "War Pigs" during the boar charge.

azriel wrote:

cool pic but can't be Dain... No double headed red axe other than that not too bad

http://thorinoakenshield.net/battle-of-five-armies-main-trailer-screencaps/

This one in particular (open it in a new window to see the full thing) is particularly interesting to me. Someone on another forum pointed out that there appear to be Goblin-town goblins on the backs of the catapult trolls. It was unclear in AUJ what the relationship between the Great Goblin and Azog/the Necromancer was, but here they appear to have joined Necro's army. Whether they did as allies or servants remains to be seen. Also, there is clearly a ... mini troll/giant/something standing in front of the really big catapult trolls. This doesn't appear to be as big as the trolls from AUJ, though obviously those guys weren't as big the catapult ones either.

I guess the whole notion of orcs and daylight has finally gone out the window then?

Ayup All...

Thanks for the best wishes. My sympathies to you jason too. I'd had Elsa 20 years, and still remember her arriving at a run as a quick Tabby Monster ! I miss her running down the garden path to me in the car as I arrive home, but now, they're all sadly memories.

As to mentioning GDTs 'Input', do you think that its to try and deflect the effect of any negative (in places like here anyways) criticism about the covens 'Tinkering' with script, and just about everything else to do with TH, and an attempt to pull in GDTs OWN fans, like, say, the Hellboy crowd ? As the comic-book crowd wouldnt necessarily go for Tolkien I think. I mean, GDT's feted like a god in the Sci-fi fantasy film world. Especially by the comic-con audiences. Which makes him a convenient fall-Guy to take a disproportionate amount of the blame when we watch it and say how much we think it sucks !

I wonder what Del Toro thinks about it ?

well I'm sure DelToro had to sign something and not be able to talk about anything in public. But there are somethings I could definitely see as his input. Ragagast being one of them, not the bird shite, or his bunny sled mind you that is Jackson's, and they admit it in the bonus material. But I think some of the Stone giants were his but to what extent I'm unsure.I don't think DelToro would have made them an amusement park ride. I think Thranduil's stag is another DelToro creation. Other than those I am unsure what might have been his and what was Jackson satisfying his own desire to add the material that was cut from LOTR. Like having Arwen show up at Helm's deep, instead now we get Galadriel showing up at DolGuldur.