In defense of The Two Towers (which is your favorite?)
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Re: In defense of The Two Towers (which is your favorite?)
I don't see how showing a map for the benefit of the movie audience is at all unreasonable.- Eldo
Its not, but the manner in which it is done is poor because there is no narrative reason for it, its there to show the audience, and there is barely any pretence otherwise.
Had they included a map scene when he returns to Miinas Tirith instead it would have serve the same purpose whilst also serving a narrative purpose of demonstrating Minas Tirith is ruled.
Putting it where they do, right after the clumsy here is what is going on telepathy just makes it seem obtrusive and unnecessary.
Also when there is no intercutting between story lines its considerably less necessary.
Its not, but the manner in which it is done is poor because there is no narrative reason for it, its there to show the audience, and there is barely any pretence otherwise.
Had they included a map scene when he returns to Miinas Tirith instead it would have serve the same purpose whilst also serving a narrative purpose of demonstrating Minas Tirith is ruled.
Putting it where they do, right after the clumsy here is what is going on telepathy just makes it seem obtrusive and unnecessary.
Also when there is no intercutting between story lines its considerably less necessary.
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Re: In defense of The Two Towers (which is your favorite?)
Eldorion wrote:BTW, Petty and Dave, I'm not trying to ignore your guys' posts about the intercutting thing, I'm too tired to write a response to that right now so I'll have to revisit it tomorrow. Hopefully this post will help remind me.
No worries Eldo. Remember, being an Admin means never having to say you're sorry.
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Re: In defense of The Two Towers (which is your favorite?)
It always felt rather like I was being talked down to. Simplifying all the things that might be on Faramir's mind as a captain of men specifically functioning in Ithilien down to the central idea that Saruman is off north somewhere being a pain and the fight in Osgiliath going poorly is quite the dumbing-down of even the basic strategies that the hobbits are privy to in the book. I seem to remember their film-dialogue perhaps including some smarter details, but the finger pointing was a bit crude for audience member's familiar with the story.Pettytyrant101 wrote:I don't see how showing a map for the benefit of the movie audience is at all unreasonable.- Eldo
Its not, but the manner in which it is done is poor because there is no narrative reason for it, its there to show the audience, and there is barely any pretence otherwise.
Had they included a map scene when he returns to Miinas Tirith instead it would have serve the same purpose whilst also serving a narrative purpose of demonstrating Minas Tirith is ruled.
Putting it where they do, right after the clumsy here is what is going on telepathy just makes it seem obtrusive and unnecessary.
Also when there is no intercutting between story lines its considerably less necessary.
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Re: In defense of The Two Towers (which is your favorite?)
But many other audience members were not familiar with the story. It may not have been something Faramir would have done in real life, but I thought it was an effective way to show what was going on. Shakespeare is never criticized for his soliliquys, I don't really see the difference here.
EDIT: except of course, PJ is no shakespeare.
EDIT: except of course, PJ is no shakespeare.
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Re: In defense of The Two Towers (which is your favorite?)
I dont actually think it is at all necessary to follow events and the story. It is not in my edit and I never heard anyone complain that they did not know what was going on.
But putting that aside I still think it is done clumsily and for no other purpose than to show the audience the map and where everyone is- and that could have been better achieved at Minas Tirith where it would also have served a wider story purpose, so making it feel less like an insertion solely for the audience.
Also its the same map as Bilbo's which gives the impression there is one cartographer somewhere supplying identical maps from the Shire to Gondor.
But putting that aside I still think it is done clumsily and for no other purpose than to show the audience the map and where everyone is- and that could have been better achieved at Minas Tirith where it would also have served a wider story purpose, so making it feel less like an insertion solely for the audience.
Also its the same map as Bilbo's which gives the impression there is one cartographer somewhere supplying identical maps from the Shire to Gondor.
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Re: In defense of The Two Towers (which is your favorite?)
I suspect everyone who's seen your edit is familiar with the story.
Same map as Bilbo? yeah, well....
Same map as Bilbo? yeah, well....
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Re: In defense of The Two Towers (which is your favorite?)
Not true- I have friends and family who have neither read the book nor seen PJ's films but who have watched my edits (I had to have a test group to make sure it was still a coherent watchable film in its own right).
On the maps, I rather always liked the idea that all the maps we see in Bilbo's study were done by him, the way they were visualised for the film they had that nice hand drawn in ink look about them, so kind of spoils it when it turns out everyone in ME with a map has one exactly like it clearly made by the same hand.
On the maps, I rather always liked the idea that all the maps we see in Bilbo's study were done by him, the way they were visualised for the film they had that nice hand drawn in ink look about them, so kind of spoils it when it turns out everyone in ME with a map has one exactly like it clearly made by the same hand.
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Re: In defense of The Two Towers (which is your favorite?)
#nitpickingaboutmapsohmy
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Re: In defense of The Two Towers (which is your favorite?)
He's been known to do that
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Re: In defense of The Two Towers (which is your favorite?)
Looks like the pro-FOTR camp has gained support from Viggo (who I think has made similar comments in the past, but I can't be arsed to check).
Viggo Mortensen interview from The Telegraph
His stories about Cronenberg are also interesting. I think A History of Violence is probably my favorite Viggo performance, though I did like Hidalgo a lot as a kid.
Viggo Mortensen interview from The Telegraph
Now, 14 years on, Mortensen has enough distance from the series to admit that the process of making it was more or less complete chaos.
“Anybody who says they knew it was going to be the success it was, I don’t think it’s really true,” he says. “They didn’t have an inkling until they showed 20 minutes in Cannes, in May of 2001. They were in a lot of trouble, and Peter had spent a lot. Officially, he could say that he was finished in December 2000 – he’d shot all three films in the trilogy – but really the second and third ones were a mess. It was very sloppy – it just wasn’t done at all. It needed massive reshoots, which we did, year after year. But he would have never been given the extra money to do those if the first one hadn’t been a huge success. The second and third ones would have been straight to video.”
Mortensen thinks – rightly – that The Fellowship of the Ring turned out the best of the three, perhaps largely because it was shot in one go. “It was very confusing, we were going at such a pace, and they had so many units shooting, it was really insane. But it’s true that the first script was better organised,” he says. “Also, Peter was always a geek in terms of technology but, once he had the means to do it, and the evolution of the technology really took off, he never looked back. In the first movie, yes, there’s Rivendell, and Mordor, but there’s sort of an organic quality to it, actors acting with each other, and real landscapes; it’s grittier. The second movie already started ballooning, for my taste, and then by the third one, there were a lot of special effects. It was grandiose, and all that, but whatever was subtle, in the first movie, gradually got lost in the second and third. Now with The Hobbit, one and two, it’s like that to the power of 10.
“I guess Peter became like Ridley Scott – this one-man industry now, with all these people depending on him,” Mortensen adds. “But you can make a choice, I think. I asked Ridley when I worked with him (on 1997’s GI Jane), 'Why don’t you do another film like The Duellists [Scott’s 1977 debut, from a Joseph Conrad short story]?’ And Peter, I was sure he would do another intimately scaled film like Heavenly Creatures, maybe with this project about New Zealanders in the First World War he wanted to make. But then he did King Kong. And then he did The Lovely Bones – and I thought that would be his smaller movie. But the problem is, he did it on a $90 million budget. That should have been a $15 million movie. The special effects thing, the genie, was out of the bottle, and it has him. And he’s happy, I think…”
His stories about Cronenberg are also interesting. I think A History of Violence is probably my favorite Viggo performance, though I did like Hidalgo a lot as a kid.
Re: In defense of The Two Towers (which is your favorite?)
That's a pretty interesting interview with Viggo, and I definitely agree with him on his thoughts of PJ's growing special effects addiction. Though I'm not sure which LOTR film is my favorite, I can definitely see where he and other are coming from on FOTR.
BTW, I have seen Viggo in LOTR and The Road, both of which I really like him in. He was stellar in The Road IMO.
BTW, I have seen Viggo in LOTR and The Road, both of which I really like him in. He was stellar in The Road IMO.
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Re: In defense of The Two Towers (which is your favorite?)
I actually haven't seen The Road myself, though I know I need to rectify that sooner or later.
Re: In defense of The Two Towers (which is your favorite?)
Its nice to read actors views & opinions of any given film, years later when they can better see the wood for the trees ! At the time its a carnival & your swept up in the wave but, later, you can see the flaws, holes & fooking cock ups clearer. Id like to 'hear' how other actors from LOTRs feel now ?
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Re: In defense of The Two Towers (which is your favorite?)
I sense Viggo Mortensen didn't like TH much
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Re: In defense of The Two Towers (which is your favorite?)
well I agree with him about TH but TT and ROTK were naturally more grandiose, they were grandiose themes, they are epic High Fantasy so they have to have some 'big' effects and not the more intimate feel of The Shire as in FOTR.
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Re: In defense of The Two Towers (which is your favorite?)
I'd love to see them post that interview on torn.
Ah! Someone posted it! Now they hate Viggo!
www.newboards.theonering.net/forum/gforum/perl/gforum.cgi?post=741831
Ah! Someone posted it! Now they hate Viggo!
www.newboards.theonering.net/forum/gforum/perl/gforum.cgi?post=741831
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Re: In defense of The Two Towers (which is your favorite?)
wow they are unbelievable, (I somehow managed to read the thread) they swing between snide comments about him being bad mannered, ungrateful, and being so bamboozled by the action sequences that he cant see the magnificence of the movie, so basicaly its denial, attack and backhanded insult. way to go TORn!. these people are ridiculous.
somebody actuallyhad the nerve to say PJs Laketown is stronger than Tolkiens. yeah right, sheer ignorance.
somebody actuallyhad the nerve to say PJs Laketown is stronger than Tolkiens. yeah right, sheer ignorance.
Last edited by Mrs Figg on Thu May 15, 2014 2:36 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Re: In defense of The Two Towers (which is your favorite?)
Mrs Figg wrote:wow they are unbelievable, (I somehow managed to read the thread) they swing between snide comments about him being bad mannered, ungrateful, and being so bamboozled by the action sequences that he cant see the magnificence of the movie, so basicaly its denial, attack and backhanded insult. way to go TORn!. these people are ridiculous.
somebody actuallyhad the nerve to say PJs Laketown is stronger than Tolkiens. yeah right, sheer ignorance.
Thorin and co. could have stood around Lake-town for 45 minutes picking their noses and scratching their asses, and the people on torn would still think it's better than Tolkien.
Oh, wait, that's pretty much what they did in the movie.
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Re: In defense of The Two Towers (which is your favorite?)
Mrs Figg wrote:wow they are unbelievable, (I somehow managed to read the thread) they swing between snide comments about him being bad mannered, ungrateful, and being so bamboozled by the action sequences that he cant see the magnificence of the movie, so basicaly its denial, attack and backhanded insult. way to go TORn!. these people are ridiculous.
somebody actuallyhad the nerve to say PJs Laketown is stronger than Tolkiens. yeah right, sheer ignorance.
Now that you can read TORn again, I can't!! I just gives me an Error message.
They can't have banned me for what I was thinking, can thay?
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Re: In defense of The Two Towers (which is your favorite?)
He'll obviously be happy he turned down appearing in the Hobbit then.
Though Viggo playing what would have been a 10 year old Aragorn might have been amusing, I guess.
Before they started shooting, back in 2008, one of the producers did ask if I would be interested. I said, 'You do know, don't you, that Aragorn isn't in The Hobbit? That there is a 60-year gap between the books?
Though Viggo playing what would have been a 10 year old Aragorn might have been amusing, I guess.
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Re: In defense of The Two Towers (which is your favorite?)
David H wrote:Mrs Figg wrote:wow they are unbelievable, (I somehow managed to read the thread) they swing between snide comments about him being bad mannered, ungrateful, and being so bamboozled by the action sequences that he cant see the magnificence of the movie, so basicaly its denial, attack and backhanded insult. way to go TORn!. these people are ridiculous.
somebody actuallyhad the nerve to say PJs Laketown is stronger than Tolkiens. yeah right, sheer ignorance.
Now that you can read TORn again, I can't!! I just gives me an Error message.
They can't have banned me for what I was thinking, can thay?
its funny sometimes I can read the threads occasionally, but mostly I get 'you are banned' message.
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Re: In defense of The Two Towers (which is your favorite?)
I also couldn't access that page. Although it may have simply been because the server is down temporarily.
Either way, it's nice to hear Viggo's personal view of things.
Speaking of A History of Violence, of the three Cronenberg films Viggo has appeared in, I really could not understand the acclaim that film has garnered.
I found it strangely acted, unbelievable, weird, dragging towards the end, and inconsistent. The action sequences were, from what I remember, largely deplorable.
Eastern Promises and A Dangerous Method, however, were great. Maybe it's an order of viewing thing. If you see Eastern Promises first you greatly prefer it, and if you see A History of Violence first it ruins Eastern Promises for you.
Either way, it's nice to hear Viggo's personal view of things.
Speaking of A History of Violence, of the three Cronenberg films Viggo has appeared in, I really could not understand the acclaim that film has garnered.
I found it strangely acted, unbelievable, weird, dragging towards the end, and inconsistent. The action sequences were, from what I remember, largely deplorable.
- Spoiler:
- In the scene outside the front of his home, when he manages to turn the tables on the goons molesting his family, there is a good 3 or 4 second pause in which the man with a gun about 8 feet away does absolutely nothing but stand there and let Viggo get the upper hand.
Eastern Promises and A Dangerous Method, however, were great. Maybe it's an order of viewing thing. If you see Eastern Promises first you greatly prefer it, and if you see A History of Violence first it ruins Eastern Promises for you.
Last edited by Forest Shepherd on Thu May 15, 2014 8:58 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Re: In defense of The Two Towers (which is your favorite?)
Forest Shepherd wrote:... and if you see A History of Violence first it ruins Easter Promises for you.
I thought Easter Promises was weird..
hurr hurr
Jokes aside, it's a great film I haven't seen A History of Violence, though, but I'd heard good things about it. Now it appears I must see it and make up an opinion of my own!
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