Re: Damn computers...

by Norc Sun Apr 27, 2014 11:38 pm

Eldorion wrote:
Norc wrote:i recommend a mac...

If you want to shell out thousands for no good reason, sure. {{{}}}

by bungobaggins Mon Apr 28, 2014 4:15 am

Norc wrote:
Eldorion wrote:
Norc wrote:i recommend a mac...

If you want to shell out thousands for no good reason, sure. {{{}}}

I also recommend Mac. Very Happy

I really wouldn't mind shelling out a little more if I don't have to deal with the stupidity that is Microsoft Windows.

I had a Dell that ran Vista all through college. Hated it! Evil or Very Mad

by bungobaggins Mon Apr 28, 2014 4:19 am

Pettytyrant101 wrote:
edit add- keep meaning to say and forgetting- nice avatar Bungo

You might very well think that; I couldn't possibly comment. Wink

by Pettytyrant101 Mon Apr 28, 2014 4:19 am

by David H Mon Apr 28, 2014 4:31 am

Thanks Eldo. I'll probably try downloading Ubuntu next time I get some time with wifi.

The mac idea really isn't in the plans for a couple reasons. Most importantly, I've still got a perfectly good 12 year old computer that just needs a new operating system. But Apple doesn't work that way. It's all or nothing. It's as if your toilet breaks, and you can't just upgrade the bathroom: you've got to buy a new house. Mad

Almost as important, I've heard that Apple doesn't always play well with dial-up modems which would make it completely useless to me.

by Eldorion Mon Apr 28, 2014 4:54 am

I hope it goes well, Dave! If you're planning to keep your old PC, you should double-check the hardware requirements for Ubuntu before downloading. Although the nice thing is that once you have the install CD, you can run the operating system off the disc to get a feel for it before installing. And when installing, it's advisable to dual boot (meaning you virtually split your hard drive in half, one part running Windows (or OS X, if you were to do this with a Mac) and the other part running Linux (or any other operating system you might care to try). You choose which OS you want to run each time you turn the computer on, and that way you're able to use whichever one you feel like at the moment.

bungobaggins wrote:I really wouldn't mind shelling out a little more if I don't have to deal with the stupidity that is Microsoft Windows.

You must liberate your mind from the false dichotomy of Windows vs. OS X. Nod

by bungobaggins Mon Apr 28, 2014 5:26 am

I'm guessing you'd recommend Linux, Eldo?

The only major problem I've run into on my Mac is not being able to play Morrowind. Mad

by RA Mon Apr 28, 2014 12:15 pm

As much as I'm not a fan of Steam, they're working on the Steam OS, their variant of Linux. From what I hear Linux is actually more efficient at running most games. The driver support is lacking though; hopefully Valve can fix that a little and if anyone on the PC market could do it, it'd be them.

by Norc Mon Apr 28, 2014 12:19 pm

bungobaggins wrote:
Norc wrote:
Eldorion wrote:
Norc wrote:i recommend a mac...

If you want to shell out thousands for no good reason, sure. {{{}}}

I also recommend Mac.

I really wouldn't mind shelling out a little more if I don't have to deal with the stupidity that is Microsoft Windows.

I had a Dell that ran Vista all through college. Hated it!

on a mac now and it is working perfectly.

by RA Mon Apr 28, 2014 12:25 pm

I built my PC and couldn't be happier with it Very Happy

by halfwise Mon Apr 28, 2014 12:37 pm

Mrs Figg wrote:
bungobaggins wrote:On the car end of the spectrum you're not missing out on much, just paying out the ass for gasoline!

cars are like mini black holes, they suck up cash on a never ending event horizon of misery.

As for the computer thing, if you are technically savvy and don't want to spend a lot of money, linux is a great way to go. If you don't want to deal with being a tech support person for half of the application installations but want the stability of unix, get a mac, which is basically a unix computer with a much better supported interface and lots of sweet goodies. You could pay a bit more to get the support system of red hat linux, but if you're doing that you may as well get a mac.

I got a mac because I need unix, but don't want to be fighting with it if I don't have to (if you're not fighting with the linux operating system, I submit you're not really using it for much). I found the extra thousand bucks (well, $500 if you buy refurbished) was worth it for what you get. It's better if you live in the city and can walk into an apple store for free tech support for the life of your computer.

Occasional operating system mismatch, but not as locked up as you may think because you can usually (not always) delve into the linux freeware, which is being actively adapted for the free Darwin BSD that mac uses.

Edit: if you only do basic stuff, then you only have to fight with linux once during the initial installation phase. But here's the BIG TIP: get a unix book written for macintosh. They are not written in admin computerese, almost fun to read. Linux is close enough to unix that 95% of it will carry over, then get a linux book to figure out the details that don't work. Banged my head against several unix manuals before I discovered this trick, and you don't even have to buy a mac to benefit!

by halfwise Mon Apr 28, 2014 1:36 pm

BTW, why is this thread in the arts and entertainment category?

by Norc Mon Apr 28, 2014 3:17 pm

halfwise wrote:BTW, why is this thread in the arts and entertainment category?

because a mac pro is a piece of art.
Damn computers... - Page 3 Mac-Pro-main

by David H Mon Apr 28, 2014 3:42 pm

Eldorion wrote:And when installing, it's advisable to dual boot (meaning you virtually split your hard drive in half, one part running Windows (or OS X, if you were to do this with a Mac) and the other part running Linux (or any other operating system you might care to try). You choose which OS you want to run each time you turn the computer on, and that way you're able to use whichever one you feel like at the moment.

That's a good thought. Along that line, I've heard of people keeping their second OS on a fash drive and booting from there. At least while I'm starting, it seems like it might have advantages over re-partitioning my existing hard drive, if only for the extra memory on an old computer. (Also, the idea of my own virtual computer I can carry in my pocket and plug in where I want seems kinda cool Cool

) Any thoughts? Good tutorials?

I've decided to try to keep this machine running as long as I can, if I can just it talking with the outside world. It's a good, solid old machine which wasn't made to be as disposable and what I'm seeing coming out now. It's like a good old bicycle. Sure it may not be the fastest, but why would you throw it away just because it doesn't have all the newest bells and whistles?

by halfwise Mon Apr 28, 2014 8:41 pm

I'm all for keeping old things chugging along as long as useful. And if you go the Linux route, (and are not already a unix/linux geek) do keep the macintosh manuals in mind. I recommend the old books by matisse enzor: unix for max os X. Truly a joy to read and learn from, and you don't care which version of OS X, it's all the same unix.

by David H Mon Apr 28, 2014 9:09 pm

Thanks Halfy! I just bought it for a penny on Amazon :carrot:

by halfwise Mon Apr 28, 2014 9:13 pm

Cool. I think you'll love it. Buy an ordinary linux manual to supplement it; the contrast in writing between the two will be like walking through a mine field compared to walking through a field of daisies. But you'll still want the linux manual.

by David H Mon Apr 28, 2014 9:19 pm

So do you agree with Eldo that Ubuntu is a good place to start? I'm just needing a solid simple turn-key platform to start, but something that's accessible enough that I can learn to pull back the curtain and tweak a bit as necessary.

by halfwise Mon Apr 28, 2014 9:22 pm

I'm not as familiar with Linux installations as Eldo: I went mac and never looked back because it just made everything so blasted easy. But from what little I do know I'd have to agree with him.

by halfwise Mon Apr 28, 2014 10:07 pm

I should clarify that the Unix manual is only for using the command line, but once you learn to use it it's too fun to let go sometimes. An ubuntu manual would tell you how to use the windows-like shell that sits on top, sort of the way OS X does. So you want both.

Most things you'll want to do in the windows type environment, but when you want to do something like move all the .gif files that have 'larry' in the name to another folder, it's often easier to do it by command line using wildcards and the like. Or to zip/unzip files using gzip, transfer files by ftp, etc.

by David H Mon Apr 28, 2014 10:17 pm

Sort of like way back in the Windows 3.X days, when you'd shut down the pretty pictures and go digging into the DOS command language that was running just below the surface, yes?

by Eldorion Mon Apr 28, 2014 10:19 pm

I have no idea what Windows 3.x was like (it was before my time Razz

) but in Ubuntu you can open the command line interface the same way you open any other program, and then you have access to all the "under the hood" stuff that allows.

by Norc Mon Apr 28, 2014 10:19 pm

mac mac mac mac mac mac mac mac mac mac mac!!

by David H Mon Apr 28, 2014 10:23 pm

no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

by halfwise Mon Apr 28, 2014 10:29 pm

David H wrote:Sort of like way back in the Windows 3.X days, when you'd shut down the pretty pictures and go digging into the DOS command language that was running just below the surface, yes?

Perzactly. Damn useful at times, and you feel so smug. But Unix is far beyond where DOS was in those days. DOS has in fact evolved to be very like UNIX in recent years.

(Norc, get the book Dave ordered and learn how to run your computer like a remote control zombie.)