The General Tolkien News Thread

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Post by Pettytyrant101 Tue Aug 10, 2021 9:49 am

{{ Well I tried. From the Tolkien Society debates on transgender in LotR's



"Butter scraped over too much bread." }}

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Post by halfwise Tue Aug 10, 2021 12:35 pm

Varied applicability indeed. And stretched - halfway through the applicability of Eowyn was clear, but nothing else seemed to fit either before or after.

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Post by Ally Tue Aug 10, 2021 5:23 pm

The Death of the Author

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Post by halfwise Tue Aug 10, 2021 5:30 pm

Hiya Ally!! Wave

Back to your old cryptic form, I see.  You've been missed. I love you

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Post by halfwise Thu Aug 12, 2021 8:08 pm

It was just a drive-by. Sad

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Post by Pettytyrant101 Fri Aug 13, 2021 9:47 am

{{ a very cool one though Cool }}

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Post by Ally Mon Aug 16, 2021 11:37 pm

Shwmae : )

I noticed that Cordeliah Logsdon seemed to be getting a lot of negative feedback for her seminar, but the call for papers was specifically called "Tolkien and Diversity". There are at least two other papers that, judging from their titles, would fall into the category of Queer Studies, which didn't seem to attract such a backlash. I dare say the reason may well be that it's less problematic to be transphobic than homophobic.

Yes, it's not particularly important literary criticism (although I did find it very interesting). Still, I am pleasantly surprised that The Tolkien Society chose such a theme when they would have known full well the sort of reaction it would receive.

But as Rowland Barthes wrote: 
The birth of the reader must be at the cost of the death of the Author.

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Post by halfwise Tue Aug 17, 2021 2:11 am

That's an interesting statement that I will apply myself to understanding.

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Post by Ally Tue Aug 17, 2021 12:22 pm

Thank you, you can explain it to me afterwards Smile 

I bluffed my way through a lot of classes...

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Post by Pettytyrant101 Tue Aug 17, 2021 12:28 pm

{{ Ally I havent followed the feedback in a general sense to the Tolkien Society stuff, but for my own points I dont think its transphobic not to find someones arguement compelling or convincing where applied to the text. Id imagine putting aside the usual genuine transphobic folk that would be a quite commom complaint with her position not the subject matter.
So far Ive also watched -



and I thought she made far stronger and more compelling arguments for her positions overall and how they related to the text. This one I do think is worth the watch on its own merits. Plus I leanred quite a lot of stuff I didnt know about how Tolkien had considered the roles of dwarf women in the Creation story with Aule.}}

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Post by halfwise Tue Aug 17, 2021 12:46 pm


But as Rowland Barthes wrote:
The birth of the reader must be at the cost of the death of the Author.

That's an interesting statement that I will apply myself to understanding.

Thank you, you can explain it to me afterwards 😄

I bluffed my way through a lot of classes...

Had to go look the damn thing up. It's abundantly clear you knew exactly what you were posting and why, so I address the following to the cut-ups at the back of the room who lack either your erudition or my industry:

Barthes was addressing the freedom of the reader/purposed domination of the author. He's saying in effect that for the readers to be free in their interpretations, they must be able to forget there was an author who had a specific intent behind the words. The author must vanish in order for the readers to give birth to their fresh readings of the text.

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Post by Pettytyrant101 Tue Aug 17, 2021 12:53 pm

{{ Thats surely then just applicability, which cant be denied. if someone gets from the text what she did then thats fine, thats applicable, its true for them and no one can take that away from them or deny it. Tolkien delibretely built that into his work. Id argue Tolkien went even further than that in his desire to create genuine myth, the whole conceit of being translator probably stems from this, we all know myths, we seldom know who wrote them. And Tolkien went to lengths to pretend he merely translated them. Tolkien kind of tried to build in suicide of the author to this own work.
The problem comes when the process is reversed and the argument is made others should acknowledge the same thing is inheritently contained in the text. And thats just the same as dominance of the author, only its now dominance of the reader. And would take a far stronger and more compelling argument than she provided to convince as when linking it directly to passages of text the argument was at its weakest.}}

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Post by Ally Tue Aug 17, 2021 1:23 pm

Yes, that is a perfectly valid criticism and not transphobic. For the record, I was thinking more of comments under some Youtube videos I discovered. But with such a topic as Tolkien and Diversity (and then adding trans), I wonder how many angles you could approach it from, which wouldn't lead to rather flimsy pieces of work. Tolkien scholars will run out topics soon  Sad

Sadly my lunch break is over so I will have to stop before my colleagues return. Not that I'm embarrassed or anything Smile I do find it interesting but must admit that I am a little out of my depth.

edit: this is a reply to a few posts up 

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Post by Mrs Figg Tue Aug 17, 2021 2:02 pm

Bottom line, does it add to Tolkien scholarship or not.
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Post by halfwise Tue Aug 17, 2021 2:10 pm

I think you have to distinguish between scholarship and literary commentary. Seems to be commentary.

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Post by Pettytyrant101 Tue Aug 17, 2021 2:39 pm

{{{ I think were all out our depth on this one Ally so dont worry about that, but no shame in ignorance so long as one hopes and strives to better understanding and knowledge through engagement. and what better place than Forumshire for that. Nod }}

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Post by Forest Shepherd Sat Aug 21, 2021 8:26 pm

If the merit of the talk depends upon whether some people are unfairly dismissive of it, then it has no merit. Let it stand on its own, not because others disagree with its philosophical underpinnings.

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Post by malickfan Mon Aug 23, 2021 8:18 pm

A few recent/upcoming books which look interesting:

John Howe has a new art book out soon:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/1446308928

https://davidandcharles.com/product/john-howes-ultimate-fantasy-art-academy/

John Howe also contributes the foreword to this book which seems intriguing:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Switzerland-Tolkiens-Middle-Earth-adventurous-1911/dp/3907323025/

https://www.john-howe.com/blog/2021/08/05/wandering-but-not-lost/

Not so sure about this though:

http://www.walking-tree.org/books/gallant_edith_bratt.php

I don't know very much about Edith Tolkien but even so I'm not so convinced there's a need/market for a biography about her, it's one thing to write about Tolkien himself but another entirely to write about his family seems kind intrusive i.m.o.

On the other hand the Cormarë Series has been running for years and I've heard good things about some of the other books in the series.

http://www.walking-tree.org/cormare.php

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Post by malickfan Mon Aug 23, 2021 8:25 pm

Something for our American members to look out for, a new Tolkien Exhibition:

https://www.marquette.edu/library/news/2021/tolkien-exhibit.php

https://www.marquette.edu/library/news/2021/tolkien-exhibit-faq.php

When is the exhibition?
The exhibition opens on Friday, August 19, 2022, and closes four months later, on Sunday, December 12, 2022.

Do I need a ticket to attend the exhibition?
Yes, tickets will be required to regulate access to what will certainly be a very popular exhibition. Tickets will be available in advance. An announcement will be made when they become available.

Who is curating the exhibition?
This exhibition is a collaboration between William Fliss, Tolkien Archivist in Marquette’s Department of Special Collections and University Archives, and Dr. Sarah Schaefer, Assistant Professor, Art History, University of Wisconsin-Milwaukee.

What is a manuscript?
Traditionally, a manuscript is a document created by hand, often combining writing with illustrations, maps, timelines, and more. One of the goals of the exhibition is to illuminate questions of how manuscripts have traditionally been understood and used—questions that Professor Tolkien explored throughout his scholarly and creative life. Visitors can expect to leave the exhibition with a greater understanding of the complex traditions around manuscripts.

How is this different from other Tolkien exhibitions in recent years?
This exhibition builds upon the success of recent Tolkien exhibitions— Tolkien: Maker of Middle-earth at Oxford University (2018) and the Morgan Library & Museum in New York City (2019); and Tolkien, Journey to Middle-earth at the Bibliothèque nationale de France in Paris (2019-2020)—but it does not seek to replicate them. Although Marquette’s exhibition will contain some items shown at each of these previous exhibitions, it has a unique focus, being centered on the manuscript tradition. The exhibition will delve more thoroughly into Tolkien’s scholarly life and feature the historical texts with which he was so familiar, and which influenced his own creative work.

Who should visit the exhibition?
This exhibition will appeal to diverse audiences, including scholars of medieval and modern art and literature, dedicated Tolkien enthusiasts interested in seeing materials that have not been exhibited before, and American fans who did not have the opportunity to visit the exhibitions in Oxford, New York, or Paris.

Will there be other Tolkien-related programming during the exhibition?
Yes, additional events are being planned to coincide with the exhibition, including opportunities for educational and community groups of all ages. More information will be forthcoming.

Will there be a publication to accompany the exhibition?
Yes! More details are forthcoming.


Are the opportunities to support this exhibition?
Yes! For more information about sponsorship opportunities please contact Sara Harvey at sara.harvey@marquette.edu or +1 414-288-4766.

Interesting to note they will be publishing something to acompany the exhibition, if it's anything like https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tolkien:_Maker_of_Middle-earth it should be well worth buying


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Well, that was worth the wait wasn't it  Suspect


I think what comes out of a pig's rear end is more akin to what Peejers has given us-Azriel 20/9/2014
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Post by malickfan Mon Aug 23, 2021 8:28 pm

Another exhibit for oour English users to visit:

https://www.hampshireculture.org.uk/event/magic-middle-earth

I can get to Basingstoke on the train so I think I'll try and see this one...

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Well, that was worth the wait wasn't it  Suspect


I think what comes out of a pig's rear end is more akin to what Peejers has given us-Azriel 20/9/2014
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Post by Pettytyrant101 Mon Aug 23, 2021 8:57 pm

{{ Madness of this countries rail system is to get from Glasgow to Basingstoke and back would cost me between £220- £318 depending when I travel,if this were being held in Spain I could get there for £69!! }}

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Post by malickfan Mon Aug 23, 2021 9:27 pm

yeah which is why i specified English rather than British, i thought it would be an expensive (and long!) journey down from Scotland to basingstoke to see one exhibit!

Looks like it's around £12-£19 for a return ticket for me (depending on which train station i go from) and my girlfriend also said she's interested in having a look so hopefully I'll get the chance to check it out soon, I'll try and take a few photos too if i go...

But yeah sheesh those train prices Shocked No

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Well, that was worth the wait wasn't it  Suspect


I think what comes out of a pig's rear end is more akin to what Peejers has given us-Azriel 20/9/2014
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Post by halfwise Mon Aug 23, 2021 10:26 pm

How can the Spain trip be cheaper? Shocked

Though I've heard that presently round trip from New York to Madrid is running $200, which is half the price to California.  No time right now, but if this covid price desperation keeps up I may nip over in early summer for a week.

Edit: what I heard was a fib, or perhaps it was meant each way.  I'm seeing $450 as the cheapest round trip to Madrid; Los Angeles is $250.  Perhaps all the cheap tickets got bought up.

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Post by Pettytyrant101 Mon Aug 23, 2021 11:31 pm

{{ Train fares in UK are unbelievable, all the more annoying as we invented the damn things and built half the worlds railways Mad Cheap plane flights to Europe on the otherhand are easy to find.
A quick google search tells me I can fly from Glasgow to Madrid and back for £132 or £69 one way. About £125 to France or Holland with Germany being about £150. Hunt around you can get very cheap flights, Easyjet offering flights to Lisbon for example from Edinburgh for under £30.
Of course thats just the raw ticket prices not all the other associated expenses and you arent going to be travelling in style. }}

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Post by halfwise Mon Aug 23, 2021 11:57 pm

Yeah the cheapest flights don't allow anything but a fanny pack and won't even give you water. Mad I've decided Spirit airlines ain't worth it no matter what the cost.

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