Re: The General Tolkien News Thread

[Tinuviel]

Soooooo drum roll please...

As part of my Oxford experience, I visited Tolkien's grave today! I went with 3 others, although I wish now that I had gone alone, since one of them was mumbling and talking to himself the whole time. He didn't seem to understand the meaning of respectful silence. That's me, and the pink carnations were bought by me to place there. The dirt looked recently turned, but it didn't look like anyone had visited recently. Strange, considering it's Hobbit week (more or less).


For some reason, I thought it would be some dramatic, emotional moment, but it wasn't. It was very simple. It felt almost as though the atmosphere demanded a very simple matter-of-fact interaction. Same with when I went to the Eagle and Child. There was no place to sit, and they were playing Katy Perry over the sound system. There were a bunch of plebs sitting in the Rabbit Room (where the gang used to hang) so I couldn't really take good pictures, nor could I take the impostor picture I wanted to take (me with a pint pretending to be in deep discussion...probably best that it didn't happen).
And reflecting on the whole experience, I can't help but think that everything happened as it should. Tolkien was just a man after all, and had I met him in the flesh, I highly doubt he'd be comfortable with me crying and gushing about how much I love his works. Instead, I left a bouquet of roses, wrote a short note expressing my thanks (ending with a hannon le mellon-nin) and left. A very touching moment, and more solemn than anything, but I'm glad to have done it.

[halfwise]

And we're glad too. And not just because we've finally seen the finest nose in Arda in print....splendid knees as well. I feel a lovely serenity stealing over me at having finally glimpsed our lovely Queen.

I managed to have a pint in the Eagle and Child many years ago. Had to stand at the bar I believe. Wanted it to be transcendent, but it was just a touch too crowded - like your visit.

Hmm...now I have to fit you into the collage somehow.

[Mrs Figg]

Tin you are gorgeous.

as far as the grave is concerned, my first reaction was that it looked very humble and I expected something grander, but my second thought was, no, its fitting for someone who didn't trumpet his greatness to the world. Its simple and modest.

[azriel]

My thoughts too. You are a lovely lady Tin. & the grave has a haunting quietness about it with undertones of a romance, much like Aragorn & Arwen's, that will go on thru time. It says it.....Luthien & Beren....*sniff*.....I really hope you enjoy your time here in the UK Was lovely to "see" you

[Tinuviel]

but my second thought was, no, its fitting for someone who didn't trumpet his greatness to the world. Its simple and modest.

Exactly! It made him seem very normal, which I think is a good thing. He deserves the praise he gets, but it's also good to remember that he was pretty hobbitish!

And now you've seen the proof of my perfect nose, so no more doubts (not that there ever were )

{{{{{{{{But thanks all you're too kind }}}}}}}}}

[Pettytyrant101]

I'm not at all sure its right for unwashed commoners (very unwashed in some cases) to see the Queens knees
And how could anyone have doubted your nose would really be so exquisite! Bloody Republicans!

[Eldorion]

Thanks for sharing your story of visiting Tolkien sites in Oxford, Tin. It's something I've wanted to do for so long that I've imagined it many times but I think you're right that it being a little on the mundane side is probably more in keeping with the sort of person Tolkien actually was. Glad to hear your perspective on it in any event. I'll have to try to take a similar picture if/when I make it.

[malickfan]

Tin you are a beautiful young lady

I hope you are enjoying you time in England.

I've seen pictures of Tolkien's grave before, it's certainly an odd feeling seeing the resting place of the man who's work means so much to us all, and yes at first glance it does seem a little quaint and plain, but I think it suits Tolkien's character. He seemed to be a rather reserved and private man, rather baffled, yet humbled by his fame, and I'm sure he'd be very touched that even today fans and well wishers drop by to pay their respects.

I live only a few hours away from Oxford, I really should make an effort to go there myself one day...

I never called Edith Lúthien – but she was the source of the story that in time became the chief pan of the Silmarillion. It was first conceived in a small woodland glade filled with hemlocks at Roos in Yorkshire (where I was for a brief time in command of an outpost of the Humber Garrison in 1917, and she was able to live with me for a while). In those days her hair was raven, her skin clear, her eyes brighter than you have seen them, and she could sing – and dance. But the story has gone crooked, & I am left, and I cannot plead before the inexorable Mandos.

J.R.R Tolkien, The Letters of JRR Tolkien, Letter 340, July 1972.

[chris63]

Nice photo, pretty girl

[halfwise]

So all of this went down two weeks ago. Tin really must have discovered Bucky in the interim. Or maybe Beren finally caught up with her?

[Pettytyrant101]

My money is on the buckie.

[Eldorion]

What if Beren discovered buckie?

[Pettytyrant101]

I am starting to worry for our dear Queen and her first encounter with non-rasberry buckie!

[Pettytyrant101]

Courtsey of a heads up from Nagual- a Pauline Bayens map, annotated and mucked about with by Tolkien has been discovered (with a price tag of £60,000 if anyone wants it!)-

http://www.theguardian.com/books/2015/oct/23/jrr-tolkien-middle-earth-annotated-map-blackwells-lord-of-the-rings?CMP=fb_gu

Also interesting, and obviously entirely justifying my belief that a film version of LotR's should, for Minas Tirith and Gondor, draw inspiration from Mediterranean type climes.    As he gives the Italian city of Ravenna as the inspiration for Minas Tirith-

[Pettytyrant101]

Also if you look at the two pictures in that article, the one of the notes has psalm 8 written on it among lots of other scribbled things.
Psalm 8 is-

1 O LORD, our Lord, how majestic is your name in all the earth! You have set your glory above the heavens.
2 From the lips of children and infants you have ordained praise because of your enemies, to silence the foe and the avenger.
3 When I consider your heavens, the work of your fingers, the moon and the stars, which you have set in place,
4 what is man that you are mindful of him, the son of man that you care for him?
5 You made him a little lower than the heavenly beings and crowned him with glory and honor.
6 You made him ruler over the works of your hands; you put everything under his feet:
7 all flocks and herds, and the beasts of the field,
8 the birds of the air, and the fish of the sea, all that swim the paths of the seas.
9 O LORD, our Lord, how majestic is your name in all the earth!

Wonder what the relevance of it was in this context?

[Mrs Figg]

Courtsey of a heads up from Nagual- a Pauline Bayens map, annotated and mucked about with by Tolkien has been discovered (with a price tag of £60,000 if anyone wants it!)-

http://www.theguardian.com/books/2015/oct/23/jrr-tolkien-middle-earth-annotated-map-blackwells-lord-of-the-rings?CMP=fb_gu

Also interesting, and obviously entirely justifying my belief that a film version of LotR's should, for Minas Tirith and Gondor, draw inspiration from Mediterranean type climes.    As he gives the Italian city of Ravenna as the inspiration for Minas Tirith-

that's San Marino

[Nagual]

Ravenna, looks just like any other town in the world these days. Of course back in the day when Petty was still a young hobbit it may have looked different...

[Pettytyrant101]

Well thats google images for you then!

Still its definitely in Italy, and that means Med look- not dust ball which is what PJ gave us.

[azriel]

I enjoyed reading that article Petty, very interesting find I love finding out the thoughts, ideas & structures that go thru someone's mind. It gives you a feeling of getting to know them more, its quite nice being a part of their world even if you are on the outside looking in.

[Mrs Figg]

These are good mini Minas Tiriths too. first one is castello Avio, the second castello Arco, both near to Lake Garda.

[azriel]

yes they are

[Pettytyrant101]

Oh if only Pj had realised Gondor right!!!!
I mean when you make a live action version one of the great things about that medium is making the places on the page visually there to see. And its not like Tolkien skimps on describing places either!

Imagine it done properly! The right lighting, the right fauna for the region, the orchards and the groves on the hillsides and slopes, the farms and home steads and fields of the Pelannor. The bustle of the Port with folks coming and going form all along the coast line.
And at its heart, Minas Tirith, a true capital city- not a lonely bleak outpost on a dust bowl in the middle of nowhere ruling a kingdom seemingly no larger than it is. (And I still dont know what the people in the city are supposed to be living on in the film, rock presumably as thats all thats there).

[Mrs Figg]

nah. it was perfect the first time.

[Pettytyrant101]

How can somewhere the opposite of how Tolkien describes it be perfect?!!! How?

[Eldorion]

PJ's took inspiration more from Byzantium for Gondor in terms of architecture, costumes, even looking for extras with more of a Mediterranean skin tone. Obviously the Byzantines were more Greek, not Italian, but he was looking at the right part of the world. Though obviously location filming in New Zealand meant stuff like light wasn't going to be "right".

I wonder if the connection to Ravenna specifically has to do with it anything about its geography or architecture, or more about its historical role as the capital of the Western Roman Empire in the 5th century. You could maybe draw a parallel between the Romans moving the capital from Rome itself to Northern Italy and the moving of the capital of Gondor from Osgiliath to nearby Minas Tirith (although the two were not quite as near as the condensed geography of the movies depicts).

Anyway, the discovery of the map is very cool, though it irks me that the auctioneers claim that the Hobbiton/Oxford connection is a "revelation" when it's been known since the publication of the Letters more than 30 years ago.