Re: The Bigger, Badder, Even More Serious Thread [4]

[Pettytyrant101]

Ex Tory PM (and working class Tory at that) John Major has been making public complaints about the fact the UK political and business scene is dominated by rich toffs from 3 universities.
PM Camerons response-

"The prime minister suggested low "aspirations" among those from different backgrounds as one reason for the lack of social mobility in the UK."- BBC
So its the fault of the lower classes for not aspiring enough? Well that doesnt at all sound like the words of a rich toff  

So it has nothing to do with Thatcher smashing up the Unions and them to a shadow player in the public service only, leaving no natural route from factory floor into politics?
Nothing to do with the major political parties setting up a conveyer belt from the 3 top universities straight into the party machine?
Nothing to do with the old boys network and patronage then?

Just us poor folk not trying hard enough.

[David H]

Clearly they're not aspiring any higher because they already have all they want in life!  

[leelee]

I agree with them just shutting the hell up, and its adults fault for letting their children listen to that drivel, and allowing it to go unchallenged. Sinaid Oconnor tried to give Cirus some advice but the little cow just gave her a snide reply after nicking her video visuals. When did pop tarts get to be so powerful? its sick, and there will be a backlash before too long.

Whoo hoo, don't you just love this girl, she should run for Prime minister. I LOVE SINEAD and her advise was o worth listening to with respect.              

[Eldorion]

Cameron: what a wanker.

{{{Am I doing it right, UKhobbits? We don't have a two finger emoticon though. }}}

[Pettytyrant101]

Spot on Eldo- just like a Brit  

[Mrs Figg]

Ex Tory PM (and working class Tory at that) John Major has been making public complaints about the fact the UK political and business scene is dominated by rich toffs from 3 universities.
PM Camerons response-

"The prime minister suggested low "aspirations" among those from different backgrounds as one reason for the lack of social mobility in the UK."- BBC
So its the fault of the lower classes for not aspiring enough? Well that doesnt at all sound like the words of a rich toff  

So it has nothing to do with Thatcher smashing up the Unions and them to a shadow player in the public service only, leaving no natural route from factory floor into politics?
Nothing to do with the major political parties setting up a conveyer belt from the 3 top universities straight into the party machine?
Nothing to do with the old boys network and patronage then?

Just us poor folk not trying hard enough.

Its about living in an Ivory Tower (or cloud cuckooland), rich parents, public school then the best universities, I dont expect anything else from him.

[Lancebloke]

Not sure if this is the difference between UK and US politics or just the UK and US but it seems as though you guys (Yanks) vote in who you like the most whereas we vote in the one we dislike the least.

Cameron is a wanker but he is less of a wanker than Clegg and the sesame street guy (and I dont mean John Kerry).

[Pettytyrant101]

Been reading a lot about Obamacare and it seems for a lot of people the cost of their healthcare is going up the way- in some exceptional cases by as much as 800 dollars a month!

Why the hell is that? Why didn't you just go for a proper NHS style system where your monthly medical bill goes to zero and your monthly tax bill goes up for everyone by about 40 bucks- surely that's a much better deal for everyone, and everyone gets medical care at point of need with no charges at all?

Trust the Americans to manage to make a complete arse of a system most of the rest of the civilised world already has had for decades  How do you manage to do that?

[David H]

Trust the Americans to manage to make a complete arse of a system most of the rest of the civilised world already has had for decades  How do you manage to do that?

Easy! Just design it by committee, then make a political football out of it.  

[Eldorion]

Why the hell is that? Why didn't you just go for a proper NHS style system where your monthly medical bill goes to zero and your monthly tax bill goes up for everyone by about 40 bucks- surely that's a much better deal for everyone, and everyone gets medical care at point of need with no charges at all?

If you follow American politics even slightly you must have seen how much of a challenge it was even to get an absurdly watered-down health care reform bill passed.  There's no way in hell a single-payer system would have passed Congress at this point in time.

[halfwise]

The problem was that a very large chunk of the population had healthcare negotiated by the corporations they work for, so have a very good deal on health care that they wouldn't want to risk. So to be politically viable Obamacare had to let those folks keep what they had while providing something for everyone else. A flat tax on everyone under these circumstances would raise howl.

Not sure how socialized medicine came about in Europe, I'm thinking whatever there was before it wasn't working too well so most people were willing to risk a change.

[Pettytyrant101]

If you follow American politics even slightly you must have seen how much of a challenge it was even to get an absurdly watered-down health care reform bill passed.- Eldo

I observed what was going on, but I cant actually understand it as a single tax system benefits everyone- you wouldn't need your corporation to negotiate health treatment -you and everyone in your family would be getting any health treatment you need, when you need it- and no bill, ever.

Surely that would be popular and an easy sell?

[Eldorion]

Nope. Decades of fear-mongering about "socialism", combined with gross ignorance of what that word actually means and what "socialized medicine" looks like in the rest of the developed world, have made it a hot-button issue that millions of Americans are opposed to strictly on principle, regardless of results.

[Pettytyrant101]

  Amazing. You deny yourselves universal healthcare on a misunderstanding! Americans!

[Eldorion]

I'm more amazed you hadn't noticed the extent of our cultural phobia of socialism yet.

[Pettytyrant101]

Its on my list of inexplicable American hangups.

[Eldorion]

It's pretty ridiculous, yeah.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Coffee_Cup

[Pettytyrant101]

"A Hollywood producer behind hit films such as Pretty Woman and Fight Club has said he spied for Israel in support of its nuclear programme.
Arnon Milchan, who was born in what is now Israel, gave an account to Israeli investigative programme Uvda.
Mr Milchan said he performed dozens of clandestine missions on behalf of Israel after he was recruited by Shimon Peres, now Israel's president.
"I did it for my country and I'm proud of it," he said.
His activities continued after he became a high-profile Hollywood producer, rising to chairman of film company New Regency.
He produced such hits as Mr and Mrs Smith and LA Confidential, and worked with famed directors including Martin Scorsese, Roman Polanski and Oliver Stone.
During the interview, which aired on Monday, Mr Milchan also said Academy Award-winning director Sydney Pollack helped in covert acquisitions of sensitive military equipment.- BBC

So we can expect the US to pursue his arrest just has publicly as they have Snowden?
Im sure the fact he is Jewish wont change a thing.....

[Eldorion]

So was he a nuclear spy before he became a movie producer, or was he moonlighting as one at the same time?

NB I'm sure if he was Jewish and spied for, say, Russia the US would go after him. But I'd imagine that the US is going to be less harsh on an ally that's caught spying on them then a rival state.

[Pettytyrant101]

They weren't any less harsh in the pursuit of the young lad from Orkney that hacked into the Pentagon to look for stuff on UFO's.
They spent years pursuing that poor lad and trying to extradite him, and last time I checked we were supposed to be an ally too.

And from the reports it was from the 1960's right through his career.

[Eldorion]

That guy wasn't working for the British government, was he? This wasn't some random Israeli citizen.

[Pettytyrant101]

No just a young lad with aspergers and a pc.

And surely if its government sanctioned spying and stealing information - especially as he confesses to stealing nuclear related info and Israel has illegal WMD youd think that would be more serious not less.

[halfwise]

I expect it will be battled out government to government before they end up going after anyone. They may hold him as a lever in the knock-down with Israel, and will press charges but not bring him to trial until the two countries have come to some understanding.

[Pettytyrant101]

I expect it will be swept under the carpet- dont want it to upset the strong Jewish lobby in the US.

I had to do a search for it on FOX news to find if they were even covering they had buried it so deep.

[Eldorion]

No just a young lad with aspergers and a pc.

And surely if its government sanctioned spying and stealing information - especially as he confesses to stealing nuclear related info and Israel has illegal WMD youd think that would be more serious not less.

I'm sure that the US government is spying on Israel too, and I'm sure both governments are aware that this is going on even if they try to hide the specifics from each other.  It's the sort of thing that is more likely to be hashed out in private by diplomats.  I suspect there are a lot of people who are pissed off at this guy for mouthing off to the media.

NB While I don't necessarily trust the Israeli government with WMDs, their nuclear arsenal (which is basically an open secret) is not illegal since Israel never signed the Non-Proliferation Treaty. Same thing as with India and Pakistan.