Re: More Hobbit pictures [3] SPOILER THREAD

[Norc]

Tolkien was probably drawing on north european myth-

'In European folklore, a dragon is a serpentine legendary creature with two pairs of lizard-type legs and bat-type wings growing from its back.'- wiki

Which is pretty much how he draws Smaug.

'J.R.R. Tolkien wrote:

And dragons, real dragons, essential both to the machinery and the ideas of a poem or tale, are actually rare. In northern literature there are only two that are significant. If we omit from consideration the vast and vague Encircler of the World, Miðgarðsormr, the doom of the great gods and no matter for heroes, we have but the dragon of the Völsungs, Fáfnir, and Beowulf's bane.

Many European stories of dragons have them guarding a treasure hoard. Both Fafnir and Beowulf's dragon guarded earthen mounds full of ancient treasure. The treasure was cursed and brought ill to those who later possessed it.'

i was being sarcastic, but i see your point. although i believe Midgardsormen was a worm (orm=worm) and also not a dragon. no wings.

[Norc]

tin, i dunno where they're from, i found them on tumblr. maybe the EE's.

[malickfan]

Nice to see Martin Freeman remains as pleasant and well mannered as always.

[Mrs Figg]

I imagine PJ is on the other end of the camera, and Martin flips the bird every time Azog is mentioned.

[RA]

I imagine PJ is on the other end of the camera, and Martin flips the bird every time Azog is mentioned.

 

[Eldorion]

i was being sarcastic, but i see your point. although i believe Midgardsormen was a worm (orm=worm) and also not a dragon. no wings.

Worm, ormr, and wyrm are simply archaic terms (in various languages) for dragons.  They're synonyms.

[Norc]

no, but not the midgardsormen, he's a worm, no legs and no wings.

[Norc]

"Because [Bard is] an ancestor of Dale, I come from Dale, my ancestors are from Dale, and so they made everybody who has ancestry of Dale Welsh. So now there’s people in Lake-town who speak with a Welsh accent and you know that they have great-great-great-grandfathers or grandmothers that were actually from Dale. So all my children are Welsh in the film, I’m Welsh, and so Dale will always be Wales to me, which is a really nice thing."
- Luke Evans

[Norc]

[Pettytyrant101]

 I knew I was right about noone knowing which is which, not even the actors!

[Sinister71]

I called it months ago with Jackson fucking up the dragon...   I just knew he was going to use the same old tired design than has been the norm over the last few years. Jackson hasn't done anything in the Hobbit film that doesn't feel like he is catering to pop culture.   No front legs but the wings are basically arms which double as forelimbs. Smaug IMO is no different than the dragons from the Harry Potter films other than he speaks. Which will be a defining factor in him, but his look is rather generic when you look at what has come before him in recent years.B grade film Dawn of the Dragonslayer was a dragon with 2 legs and wings doubling as legs. Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire had dragons which looked realistic, with wings doubling as forelimbs, as did Harry Potter and the Deathly Hollows. Reign of Fire had a bull dragon who had rear legs and forelimbs that were his wings, Vermithrax from dragonslayer was the same and IMO these two were the only ones that were frightening and great.    Sadly the only dragons in recent years that had four legs and wings is Draco from Dragon Heart which was alright for the time but still not great with his monkey snout. Then there were the dragons from the dungeon's and dragons films which were crap IMO. Also dragons from a film called Merlin and the war of the dragons. Which really were bad as well. But at least they had 4 legs and wings...Then there was the nightmare that was called D-war or dragon wars where the main bad dragon resembled a serpent. as well as various types of dragons none of which were stellar IMO.

Personally I think the dragon design for the games Dragon Age, Dragon's Dogma, and Skyrim look rather great in comparison to the movie dragons we are getting these days. At least they have 4 legs and wings.

It seems we are doomed to have just another generic dragon in Smaug at least in looks. Hopefully the performance will be truly incredible and will make the generic design rememberable. I won't hold my breath on it but maybe

[malickfan]

Bendy cabbagepatch is always guaranteed to turn in a good performance so I'm not worried in that department. I get where you are coming from about Smaug, but Jackson really couldn't give a shite it's his job to make things as cinematic as he feels necessary, and if he turned in just an ordinary dragon who happens to speak, the average movieoger would be dissapointed or confused-from a book perspective Smaug is great because of his dialogue, in the film he's going to be remembered (well, possibly) as a ferking huge dragon.

Sad but True.

[Sinister71]

My issue with it though is Smaug should be THE dragon... He should make every dragon ever put on film in comparison look like crap. But instead we are getting some generic looking dragon form that has been done a thousand times already. And yet we get quotes out of Jackson like:

"He's a dragon. That's all I'm gonna tell you. Yeah, I mean, you want a really cool dragon and we're doing a really cool dragon. Not gonna tell you anything more than that. But I'm not reinventing the wheel. Like, I don't want to do anything too clever, I just want to make an absolutely terrifying-looking dragon. Well, I never try to compete with other people, you know, I don't think what our dragon looks like particularly compared to others, I have no idea. Other people can make up their mind about that."

Really not reinventing? He had to do that with every other aspect of the Hobbit, why not the freeking dragon too?

It's just too bad for me the dragon doesn't look terrifying, scary, or really all that cool. It's just generic for me and has been done before. Smaug will basically look like the dragon from Harry Potter with a few minor deviations. Something I find boring Honestly. The voice so far is the only light at the end of the tunnel with Smaug. Which I'm sure Cumberbatch will deliver a spot on performance. But if the visual to accompany the voice is just something that's been done before, for me it takes away from it. Making it not as special as if they had made a really great interesting concept design for the dragon. I'm not saying a radical design but something similar yet having a new and fresh take on it.

[Pettytyrant101]

Its just what he looks like, its right there on the cover of the book, drawn by the author. Everyone who has ever even seen the book sitting on a shelf knows what he looks like.
So how can they still not have decided a year after the film comes out what he is supposed to look like? It beggars belief, and I know a beggar when I see one.

[Mrs Figg]

I imagined somehow that WETA would blow our minds with Smaug, give us something unique and ancient.

[Sinister71]

http://www.heye-kalender.de/der-hobbit-broschur-xl-2014

look at February Beorn really looks like crap  If that's WETA's idea of good they should have stuck to the Rankin and Bass Hobbit and skipped Beorn IMO  

[Lancebloke]

Ok... I'm going in to this one to try and put a little bit of perspective to it.

Firstly, dragons have been drawn, built, sculpted, animated and talked about for a very very long time.

Second, the people who have done those things haven't gone in to it thinking 'you know what, I want this to be the second best dragon in the history of dragons because I know someone will try and do Smaug one day.'

Taking those 2 points in to consideration, I think that some comments about WETA's Smaug are a tad bit silly. It was always extremely unlikely he was going to be original. It was also very unlikely that it would be the 'dragon of dragons' to all people everywhere. So I think reality check is needed there.

On the flip side, from what I have seen, it doesn't seem to be the dragon that Tolkien described in his writings. That, I believe, is the real issue. But then that is the general issue with these films.

[Norc]

as long as he looks awesome, which i am sure he will i mean.. alan lee probably has the design, and benny's voice. it's gonna be great.

[Eldorion]

Beorn looks sort of like the live-action Grinch in this shot.

[Norc]

ew.. no. but i see persbrandt in that though..

[Lancebloke]

I am drawing my own dragon (well.... from a picture that I like). Anyone want to see when I am done?

[Eldorion]

I'd enjoy seeing what you come up with if you want to share it.

[bungobaggins]

Beorn looks sort of like the live-action Grinch in this shot.

[Norc]

I am drawing my own dragon (well.... from a picture that I like). Anyone want to see when I am done?

yes, duh.

[Norc]

perfect reaction bungo.