Re: US General Elections 2020

by Lancebloke Wed Nov 09, 2022 4:09 pm

Petty - i think that is a big part of the problem. Very rarely is there a big enough majority of control for things to really get done and that is without all of the shenanigans that go on to stop things even when they have a majority of agreement.

2 years is not enough time sometimes to even get things agreed let alone implement and let alone feel the effects. I think that basically creates a complete disconnect between 'the will of the people' versus what actually happens.

It happens in many places but I think 2 party systems are particularly impacted. And then all of the 'checks and balances' institutions are appointed by the governments in place at the time which further paralyses the system as they have influence for a much longer time... e.g. the supreme court.

I mean the US ceased to be a democracy about 20 years ago. I think it looks like it is in the balance between and oligarchy and authoritarian state now.

by halfwise Wed Nov 09, 2022 6:01 pm

Most of us saw a glimmer of hope until Trump came in and demonstrated how a demagogue can convince a sizable chunk of the population that the parts of the government that actually DO function are broken. Following his model most of the Republican losers will refuse to concede, and our democracy is finished.

by Pettytyrant101 Thu Nov 10, 2022 4:27 am

by Lancebloke Thu Nov 10, 2022 6:00 pm

Very interesting outcomes so far! Normally the mid-terms go quite wildly against the incumbent presidents party, with the exception of W.Bush which had a lot to do with 9/11.

More interesting is most of Trumps picks got smashed and his potential 2024 rival in Florida did really well. I wonder if this spells the end for him as it looks quite clear that a lot of people have had enough of his bullshit.

by halfwise Thu Nov 10, 2022 8:15 pm

Even though his rival Ron DeSantis would be more effective at implementing Trumpian policies I disagree with, I'd still find him preferable because at least he's coherent. I'd be annoyed with him, but not cringing with embarrassment nearly every time he speaks.

by Pettytyrant101 Sun Nov 13, 2022 2:24 pm

{{ So I decided to tune into Fox and Friends this monring mainly for alaugh, instead I was horrified.
One of the three numpties that was presenting it was actually arguing that the reason for the failure of the red wave to materialise was, wait for it...too many people were allowed to vote!

Yup his actual argument was that mail in voting made it too easy for people to vote and so more people voted than if they had to physically turn up ata polling station and this was bad. And further he questioned, what did these extra voters know about politics? Before going on to say that there should be a minimum criteria for voting that was more than filling in a ballot and mailing it and that it wasnt good to have more voters if they were, effectively the wrong sort of voter ie ones that didnt agree with him and the Republicans. I couldnt believe my ears.
This is America? Self styled bastion of democracy isnt it? Deploring an increase in the amount of folk voting in a democratic election? Absoultely gobsmacked by a complete gobshite. Shocked

Has the republican side really squewed so far that they are now an anti-democracy party?}}

by Pettytyrant101 Wed Jan 04, 2023 7:55 pm

{{ the leadershiop vote is going...interestingly. It reminds me of the state of the Tories here over Brexit- with moderates under May and a small but no ground giving cabal of hardliners.
In that case the hardliners got rid of May by simply refusing to vote for her Brexit plan till her poistion was untenable as she couldnt pass the legislation- just as hardline Republicans are refusing to vore for MCcarthy. And may be hoping similarly to make his position untenable and force him to go by showing he cant get the votes.
In the Uk case they got Boris in and he did something Im not sure a US party leader can, perhaps someone can let me know- he just exeplled all the moderates from the party to stand, if they choose, as independents without backing or funding- effectively ending most careers. Can a US party leader do similar?

Not sure how it goes in the US from here- as it stands there is no evidence the hardliners will change their minds, and no indication so far of a 3rd candidate breaking through with anything like the required votes. }}

by halfwise Sat Jan 07, 2023 12:31 am

Leaders in congress can only throw people out of committees, that's the extend of their control over other members as far as I can think of.

Not having a party leader only disrupts the standard operating procedures, but theoretically doesn't stop congress because it's not written into the constitution. Congress can operate without them if it chooses to.

by Mrs Figg Sat Jan 07, 2023 11:55 am

I would 100% much prefer Ron DeSantis to Trump. I liked what he did with Disney. They were turning into an indoctrination cult for children.

by Pettytyrant101 Sun Jan 08, 2023 4:11 pm

{{ Well McCarthy got there in the end- but he had to sell the house to do it, I dont think there is anything left the nutters were demanding he hasnt given them.

One thing I came across whilst looking into the ringleaders of thehardliners, that I found hard to believe but appears to be true- one of the ringleaders Lauren Boebert apparently wants to remove the separation of church and state.

“The church is supposed to direct the government. The government is not supposed to direct the church...I’m tired of this separation of church and state junk." - Boebert, Fox News

Now I may be wrong but the sentiments expressed by the phrase 'seperation of church and state' appear in the Constitution as "“Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof,” and its the First Amendment.

The idea of leaving Europe and setting up a place that was run not by Kings or Popes was kind of fundemental to the idea of America, well that and masonry of course. Keeping religion out of governance was as crucial as keeping monarchy out of it.

Im amazed to hear a Republican, who claim more than most to cherish the Constitution would publicly get away with holding such a fundemental view opposing its very basis. }}

by halfwise Sun Jan 08, 2023 4:36 pm

The non separation of church and state has been a big strand of republicanism ever since Reagan. They figured out it was a way to lock up the fundamentalist vote.

by Pettytyrant101 Sun Jan 08, 2023 4:47 pm

{{ I think the difference is Reagan was playing politics courting a vote by supporting a view in principle, but never actually doing anything when in power to make it come about. I get the impression were Boebert to ever get in power she would make it happen, or at least try very hard to. }}

by halfwise Sun Jan 08, 2023 4:58 pm

Oh she's a total nut case, but I think support would be mainly in the fringes like we've seen with supporting bakeries that won't make wedding cakes for gay couples. Any clear infringement of the separation of church and state will be shot down in the courts and the vast majority of republicans are glad to let that happen so long as they are seen to be pushing the christian agenda.

by Pettytyrant101 Sun Jan 08, 2023 5:40 pm

{{ Support is mainly in the fringes right now, but that hasnt stopped her and 19 equally nutty friends from just holding the rest of the Republican party hostage and getting all their demands met.

One of the more interesting things to come out of this was the apparent scorn given by the 20 to Trump when he appealed to them to vote for McCarthy, that Gaetz guy in especial who simply replied to the appeal by mocking Trump in his own words, or one word in this case- "Sad!"

The monster it seems has outgrown the need for its Maker. }}

by halfwise Mon Jan 09, 2023 1:00 am

They may get the support to stay in office, but they don't get the frenzied following that Trump did.

by Pettytyrant101 Wed Feb 15, 2023 4:38 am

{{ This figure shocked me, though sadly didn't surprise me. We aren't even through February yet and so far in the US this year there have been 63 shooting incidents involving 4 victims or more and a total of 4,200 firearm deaths. In les than two months. There are wars have less casualties in the same time frame. Unbelievable America. Unbelievable. I will always struggle to understand a people who value their right to carry a lethal weapon higher than the right of their children to go to school without fear of being shot to death.
This isn't normal. No one else has gruesome statistics like these, no other country fears to send their children to school in case they get shot or has to teach their children techniques to avoid getting shot. Its utter madness. }}

by halfwise Sun Sep 10, 2023 4:19 pm

I just read a long article that explains the modern popularity of the populist right wing. Here's an excerpt from the middle. I think he's nailed it, and it's actually pretty obvious.

And that’s when it hit me.
Yes, I thought, Trump is a salesman. Everything he does, pretty much all the time, is sell sell sell. His rallies, his tweets, his press conferences, and interviews — he’s selling.
But any politician or officeholder has to sell — it comes with the job. You’re trying to get a bill through Capitol Hill, trying to get the electorate to vote you in for another term; you’re selling something.
What struck me was how easy it is to sell what Trump sells. How his particular brand of snake oil practically sells itself.
Consider, I said to my father-in-law, how hard it would be, instead, to sell the following: We’re on this planet with finite resources, and we’ve affected the environment; we’re killing off thousands of species from heat and pollution. We’re looking at a future of worsening inequality, ecological overshoot, and climate change. What we need to do now is cinch up our belts, roll up our sleeves, and consider our fellow future humans on Planet Earth. We need to evolve out of the mindset of limitless growth, of having whatever we want at the push of a button. We need to share what we do have with the rest of the world, so they’re not driven to become as wantonly acquisitive as we are.
We need to reverse pretty much every direction in which we’re headed — toward more consumption, development, and population.
Imagine trying to sell to people that they needed to do more with less.
Imagine telling them that America is in trouble, not from immigrants, minorities, or multiculturalism, but from within. From our desire-based lifestyles, from our endless wars, from our ravenous resource consumption.
Not an easy sell.
Not an easy sell at all.
Now consider what Trump is selling, and what he has been from the beginning — it’s the complete opposite:
America is your birthright. Do whatever you want; fulfill yourself. You, especially if you’re white, male, straight, and Republican, are the beating heart of the world. Get that extra large truck, take that extra-long vacation, make all the money you can, and gobble up everything in your path.
Forget the rest.
It’s fiddling while Rome burns; it’s whistling past the graveyard, and it really blew my mind, as simple as it seems, prima facie, that this is the secret to Trump’s success. This is the whole enchilada, the whole ball of wax:
Trump sells you permission to indulge your vices, your baser instincts.
He sells you the right to be selfish, to lack any real moral fiber or scruples. He sells you the idea that intellectualism is bad, institutions are untrustworthy, everything and everyone is corrupt and you can put your faith in only him, your martyr, who’s currently under major federal and state indictments for you.
He pays lips service to nationalism: let’s stay out of war, like the one in Ukraine, while praising the autocrat who started it. He bemoans the grift of D.C. while fleecing his constituency for millions.
Shameless, he’s never in danger of being a hypocrite because he can declare “So what?” To every charge. Either it’s persecution, it’s overreaction, or it’s simply fake.
Wouldn’t we all love this in our own lives? I’m rubber and you’re glue; whatever you say bounces off me and sticks to you.
Imagine if this attitude got us everything we ever wanted.
This is the easiest thing, in the history of things, to sell to people. Fuck everyone else, it’s you, baby. Fuck the gays and the blacks and the trans and the immigrants. Fuck those people from shithole countries. Women should know their place, the government should let them do whatever they want, and you shouldn’t have to lift a finger to help anyone else. Ever. Just as America shouldn’t be helping anyone else, not unless we get something for it. It’s all a zero-sum game. Winners and losers.
I’m selling you a win.
Trump takes cultural issues, domestic and foreign policy issues, and economic issues, and gives you the easiest answer. Don’t like climate change? Don’t think about it, don’t worry about it; fuck the Paris Accord. Don’t like change in general? Let’s get back to the way things were. Don’t like the economy? Don’t like subprime mortgage fraud? Don’t like inflation or stagflation? Just get rich. Or blame D.C. for keeping you down. It’s the government and taxes, it’s not you.
Easy, easy, easy.

-T. J. Brearton
ILLUMINATION

by Pettytyrant101 Mon Sep 11, 2023 10:00 pm

{{ Similar thing happened with Brexit. A single simple slogan "Get Brexit Done", just believe in that, forget all the questions, just vote for Boris and the Tories and all the problems will magically melt away, they will get Brexit done. It was all so simple. We'd take back control from Johnny Foreigner, we'd have all the fish in the North Sea and ready markets worldwide clamouring to buy them, our farmers would flourish and be freed of red tape, and our borders would be secure and free from foreigners sneaking in to partake of our abundance.

Just don't think about how most of the EU rules we either created or had a big voice in doing so, don't question the economics of leaving the worlds largest trading block to sit outside behind tariffs and red tape, or question how farms will be funded when EU polled resources provided the subsides, don't question how the economy requires immigrants to combat our ageing and falling population.
Don't think. Instead, Just Get Brexit Done.
Just believe in Boris. He can get Brexit done. See its simple. As simple as it is terrifying.}}

by halfwise Fri Jun 28, 2024 1:48 pm

If you watched last debate between Trump and Biden then you know it's all over: Trump's back in the White House. Biden had maybe a minute when he didn't look geriatric. Despite telling his usual lies of exaggeration Trump remained in control and coherent.

If Biden doesn't bow out there's nothing more to say.

by Pettytyrant101 Fri Jun 28, 2024 1:54 pm

{{ Watched it on the nightshift last night. Biden was stumbling, mumbling and seemed old. However if you dig down a little on substance he had stuff to say, and actual policies. Trump on the otherhand had nothing but empty promises and accusations and wild claims.
A less than half decent debater could have mopped the floor with Trump, but Biden is not that any more.
I dont see the Dems being able to replace him in time, only way I can see it is a sort of 'crowning'- with Biden nominating someone to take over from him and instructing the States to lend their delegate votes to the new person without another round of lengthy voting.}}

by halfwise Fri Jun 28, 2024 2:15 pm

Biden's in a quandary: if he does the right thing and passes the torch, the last 5 months of his presidency will be even more lame than a president who CAN'T run again because of term limits. He may as well sit on the balcony drinking bud light and let the country run itself. Yet to not pass the torch is handing it to Trump. It's a lose-lose situation.

But who to hand it to? Kamala Harris has zero following. Anyone who does have a following (Gavin Newsom of California) is loathed by the moderates needed to win the election. Joe Manchin from West Virginia would win; but he's effectively left the Democratic Party and has never shown any real interest in running for President.

by halfwise Fri Jun 28, 2024 2:39 pm

I should add that the Republicans also have no alternative to Trump. The moderates who could easily win (I liked Jon Huntsman) were largely run out of the party even before Trump arrived on the scene. There are other electable republican moderate governors (Larry Hogan) but their party has veered too far to the right to nominate them. Those left are too odiously right wing to win the presidency. They cling to Trump out of necessity. Trump is an anomaly, and even he didn't win the popular vote. He may now, largely due to voter apathy on the Democrat side.

by Lancebloke Sun Jun 30, 2024 9:15 am

I think the only thing that might help over the coming weeks is Trump having a similar meltdown which hale has managed in a few of his rallies. That would need to be countered by a solid Biden performance.

They are both too old for the job, Trump is only a few years behind Joe and has been showing his age recently too.

by Pettytyrant101 Sun Jun 30, 2024 11:56 am

{{ Rather worrying thing in our general election campaigns at the moment, the Tory attack, or more defence, line they and their right wing media mouthpieces are putting out in the face of a Tory electoral wipe out - is to stoke up fear of Labour getting a 'super majority' and how destructive that would be.

Problem is a 'super majority' is only relevant to US politics, it makes zero sense in UK politics as all you need is a majority, a majority of 1 is as good as a majority of 1000. It makes zero difference, yes if you have a few extra seats to spare then you don't have to whip your MP's so hard to vote with the government, but as a general rule government policy is backed by government votes in the Commons, its exceptionally rare, count on one hand rare, times in UK politics when a government bill has failed because not enough of their own side would back it. Normally all MP's of a party will vote in the Chamber with the government, collective responsibility is key to UK politics.
A super majority as a threat, is a complete nonsense. If labour have 20 more seats than the Tories it's exactly the same in practical terms as if they have 20 million more seats. It doesn't make a jot of difference.

What really bothers me is people hear and read this and actually take it seriously, so ignorant are so many of the populace about how our system actually functions. And these people will decide the next government.
As I get older I am more inclined to think not everyone should automatically get the vote, you should have to fill in a quiz first showing you have some basic grasp of the political system first. That way our politicians could not use these tactics which can only work if the populace is to ignorant too know how stupid it is.}}

by malickfan Mon Jul 01, 2024 10:21 am

I think Trump will win...he's a rapist, convicted felon, and has broken crimes left right and centre throughout his life but the republican party seems united behind him and he gained a huge amount of voters in 2020 his supporters are in a cult, as he said himself a few years ago he could shoot someone on live TV and not loose any support.

...Biden is showing his age, the opinion polls are terrible and even if they were to replace him at this late stage I'm not convinced the Democrat Paty would unite behind a popular enough candidate to win.

Biden should have announced he wasn't running a year ago...but Trump should be in prison...but at this point I have a feeling its too late to turn things around, I feel Trump will scrape a narrow win because of the Electoral College and go full mask off fascist in his second term.

Is this really the best America can give us? I'm not impressed by most of our politicians in the UK but there's no way we'd face a choice between a 81 year old lame duck on the cupse of senility and a 77 year old batshit insane narcistic rapist conman... no wonder the youth vote is so low were your politicians are so old and out of touch.

Glad I'm not American...reading up online about Project 2025 and some of the potential plans Trump has for a second term has me more than a little concerned, if he wins will this be the last fair election? Will he pull America out of Nato/cut all funding to Ukraine? What does this mean for gay/trans rights? What about green energy and the enviroment? What about the Israel/Palestine conflict?

The ruling on presidential immunity by the supreme court is due soon isn't it? ...If they rule in Trumo's favour what does that mean for the future? Could Trump order the arrest of political enemies? Could he try and ignore the consitution and run for a third term? If he does win (and I think he will) the next four years could make or break American democracy.

One thing I am curious about, given the low quality and huge turnover of Trump's first presidential cabinet/administration I wonder what kinds of people he can persuade to serve with him the second time round...it's quite telling very few of his former cabinet have enthusiastically endorsed him, wouldn't be surprised if he nimated hiw own daughter as secretary of state or something, he knows he has the republican party in a vice and this time they will go along with anything he says.

Good luck to our Americans members, your going to need it.

Trump is a convicted felon...and don't alot of countries have strict rules about not letting convicts enter, how will trump be able to perform his duties as President if he isn't allowed to visit foreign countries?