Re: Amazon, Warner Bros in Talks for LOTR Series Adaptation: Variety

by azriel Tue Nov 07, 2017 8:59 pm

I think Mark Ruffalo could do a good Tom Bombadil Smile

I can see him in the blue & yellow skipping around. I think he has a warm wit as well Smile

Amazon, Warner Bros in Talks for LOTR Series Adaptation: Variety - Page 4 Mark_r10

by bungobaggins Tue Nov 07, 2017 9:37 pm

He's gotta look like this painting. And they would need all the songs... ALL the songs.

by halfwise Wed Nov 08, 2017 12:08 am

When it started I was all crabby about it being too slow. But it picked up. It's close enough to how I imagine it that I'm happy. Nod

by Bluebottle Wed Nov 08, 2017 1:45 am

Not quite Knights of the round table, but I like it too Nod

by Bluebottle Wed Nov 08, 2017 1:47 am

Not quite the same spirit, but..

by halfwise Wed Nov 08, 2017 2:34 am

Figwit sings! Very Happy

by Lancebloke Wed Nov 08, 2017 8:26 am

Only just seen this. Possibly something to get excited about and engaged with again. Seems like a long time since I have posted about anything Tolkien related on this forum!

I do have a couple of concerns with what this could turn in to:

- This needs to be give enough budget to deal with the big set pieces as well as the obvious need for some CGI during the quieter times. Comparing to GoT, I don't think it will be good if the producers had to pick a dragon over a direwolf and therefore introduce missing plot/plot holes.

- It should really follow the world built in the books rather than the empty Middle-Earth that PJ portrayed. Again, comparing to GoT given it's literary inspiration, I think they did an ok job of balancing the huge number of characters and locations to make the world feel like a world.

- The whole diversity thing. I don't want people to remember a series because Aragorn became a woman and had the first human-elf lesbian relationship on screen. That isn't just P.C. for P.C's sake but to draw attention. I think this is probably a good opportunity to explore diversity in a modern context but also being very faithful to the book.

- They shouldn't avoid deeper lore because they are scared people wont get it. PJs reference to the valar, for example, was a nice little nod and could have done with a little more.

I am sure there are plenty more things to think about but that is my brain dump for today.

Great opportunity to create something amazing if they take the time to do it properly.

by halfwise Wed Nov 08, 2017 1:18 pm

I don't understand your reference to PJ's empty Middle Earth. He did okay in the world building, it was the characters and occasional plotlines where he whiffed it at times. The biggest miss in the world building was what Petty pointed out: the empty plains of Minas Tirith. The Hobbit felt more disjointed and contrived, but I don't count that. It's LotR you have to judge PJ's world building by.

by Mrs Figg Wed Nov 08, 2017 5:04 pm

Bluebottle wrote:How 'bout Tom Baker?

Admittedly also more 20 years ago, but still

no way, you are telling me you cant imagine Jim Broadbent with a Great Big Bushy Beard as Tom??

by azriel Wed Nov 08, 2017 5:30 pm

I think Broadbent would be good because of his expressions & natural voice. He's appealing, down to Earth, no airs & graces, doesn't think his poop don't smell. Look at him in Bridget Jones as the father ? He's a natural. I still stand by my choice but, Jim is a great contender. Tom Baker is too old, sorry Blue. He'd have to use that Tardis & go back a bloody long time to carry off Tom Bom I think Smile

by Bluebottle Wed Nov 08, 2017 11:51 pm

Well, I did say more like 40 years ago, Razz

but come on: Curls, hat, smile, wide eyed stare, all right there.

Bluebottle wrote:Tom's got what it takes in my opinion:

Well, 40 years ago, certainly

He apparently auditioned for the original triology, but when they told him it would mean staying half a year in New Zealand he basically told them: "Bugger off, no one has time for that at my age!"

And don't forget his stint on Blackadder, this is the sort of thing he would have done perfectly. Nod

by Bluebottle Wed Nov 08, 2017 11:52 pm

Mrs Figg wrote:
Bluebottle wrote:How 'bout Tom Baker?

Admittedly also more 20 years ago, but still

no way, you are telling me you cant imagine Jim Broadbent with a Great Big Bushy Beard as Tom??

Maybe

Not that much younger than Tom though Razz

by chris63 Thu Nov 09, 2017 3:57 am

Hope this happens.

Still waiting for the Shannara series 2 to start. Not great i no, but having read the books.

by chris63 Thu Nov 09, 2017 4:21 am

http://ew.com/tv/2017/11/07/lord-of-the-rings-tv-show-sean-astin/

by chris63 Fri Nov 10, 2017 12:51 am

JRR Tolkien's family are in talks with Netflix and Amazon to sell Lord of the Rings TV rights for almost £200million
The Tolkien Estate is quoting up to £189 million for the rights to the books
Amazon, Netflix and HBO have all been approached about the series so far
It comes after Warner Bros and Tolkien Estate settled a £62 million lawsuit

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5060613/JRR-Tolkien-s-family-talks-Netflix-Amazon.html#ixzz4xzAXQd5S

by Forest Shepherd Fri Nov 10, 2017 4:12 am

I'm confused by all this, why are these sites talking about the Tolkien Estate being involved? I mean, if they had some input, that's fine, but these are specific references to them "selling the rights", which they don't own.

Edit: The Daily Mail seems like a bit of a rag, is that fair to say?

by Lancebloke Fri Nov 10, 2017 8:32 am

halfwise wrote:I don't understand your reference to PJ's empty Middle Earth. He did okay in the world building, it was the characters and occasional plotlines where he whiffed it at times. The biggest miss in the world building was what Petty pointed out: the empty plains of Minas Tirith. The Hobbit felt more disjointed and contrived, but I don't count that. It's LotR you have to judge PJ's world building by.

I mean the empty Pelennor, the lack of other leaders and people's of Gondor, the 'for the fans' Elves instead of the to and fro of forces from Rohan, the incredibly brief glimpse of Pelargir, the general lack of other important characters.

I thought the world seemed very sparse at times given that it was trying to sell a massive war for the future of the world.

Also, 're this Tolkien estate thing, could they be trying to get more rights so they can include more lore rather than make it up like PJ 'had' to?

by Mrs Figg Fri Nov 10, 2017 1:10 pm

Forest Shepherd wrote:I'm confused by all this, why are these sites talking about the Tolkien Estate being involved? I mean, if they had some input, that's fine, but these are specific references to them "selling the rights", which they don't own.

Edit: The Daily Mail seems like a bit of a rag, is that fair to say?

'bit of a rag' is understatement of the century, I would hesitate to use it as lining for the cat litter tray.

by Bluebottle Fri Nov 10, 2017 2:05 pm

Well, this is a question of tv rights, obviously, and how those were dealt with in relation to the sale of the movie rights. Normal contract interpretation principle is that a contract should be read strictly in accordance its wording, unless something different can be discerned to have been the intention of the parties or is normal practice in the trade in question. As such, arguing legally that Tolkien sold off more of his exclusive rights than the contract stipulates would be difficult legally. As the author and most certainly the weaker party in any negotiation with a film company, I find the idea that Tolkien should have signed off more rights than what appears in the contract troublesome. I can't find a good source on the content of the contract, but wikipedia says "film, stage and merchandising rights", further there was an earlier lawsuit on whether this mean tangible merchandising or also merchandising in new digital technologies. I haven't had time to read the daily mail article, but it seems to argue this was all set of by a settlement. If that is the case it seems likely that the settlement established the limits of rights transferred in the original contract and that the Tolkien estate is acting on rights it is now clear still remain with it. Pure speculation though, and not really something you'd think you would see C. Tolkien doing.

by malickfan Fri Nov 10, 2017 2:21 pm

If the Tolkien Estate is involved in some official, legal capacity (which I find very unlikely) perhaps they have cut a deal with WB etc the have more creative input in exchange for a smaller cut of the profits, the Tolkien family and their publishers don't need the money, whereas this TV series is only happening to make more money out of the franchise before the rights lapse, perhaps the Estate feels it would be best to work with rather than against this Tv series, to rectify some of the mistakes/negative fallout they feel happened from the Jackson films.

I very much doubt Christopher Tolkien would ever consider licensing the rights to The Silmarillion etc (he has expressed regrets about some of his editorial decisions, and later published the vast amount of drafts/related material in the HOME and UFT, a Silmarillion series would effectively be an adaptation of an adaption and mostly invented by the screenwriters) but perhaps he has changed his mind on adaptations in his old age and is taking into account input from younger members of the family with less of an emotional connection to the source material.

by Bluebottle Fri Nov 10, 2017 2:47 pm

Yes, it does seem more like a move by wb than the Tolkien estate going by the plans described. Perhaps a collaboration? The other option is that the estate has changed tack on adaptations.

by Mrs Figg Fri Nov 10, 2017 7:25 pm

if David Yates has anything to do with this tv show I refuse to watch it. Suspect

by Eldorion Fri Nov 10, 2017 7:29 pm

For Blue's perusal:

http://www.thehalloffire.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=24&p=333916#p333899

Voronwë the Faithful (Doug Kane) wrote:Okay, I have now re-obtained copies of the original 1969 agreements. With regard to a television series (as opposed to televising a motion picture) they granted the purchaser (which at the time was United Artists, but which now is the late Saul Zaentz's Middle-earth Enterprises) the option to purchase rights to a television series so long as it is within five years of the first general release of the last motion picture made from the books, for what appears to be a very small amount of money. To back up for a second, for some reason that I still don't understand, there were two separate agreements in 1969, one between UA and George Allen & Unwin (Tolkien's publisher, and the predecessor of Harper Collins) covering The Hobbit and The Two Towers, and one between UA and "SASSOON TRUSTEE AND EXECUTOR CORPORATION, LTD." which was a trust set up to represent Tolkien's interests, covering FOTR and ROTK. The terms of the two agreements are similar but not identical. With regard to television series, the agreement with Allen & Unwin covering The Hobbit and The Two Towers states:

10. The Seller hereby grants to the Purchaser the option to acquire television series rights in and to the
Work. Such option may be exercised by the Purchaser at any time within five (5) years after the first general release of the last motion picture photoplay based upon the Work or THE TRILOGY. · A picture shall be deemed to be the "last motion picture photoplay based upon the Work or THE TRILOGY" if principal photography has not commenced on a subsequent motion picture photoplay within three years from the first general release of the previous motion picture photoplay based upon the Work or THE TRILOGY. "Television series rights" shall be deemed
to mean the sole and exclusive right to use a character or characters., characterizations., names of characters., settings locations., themes., or other material ·suggested by or derived from the Work and the titles thereof in different stories, in separate episodes and/or in serial type television programs.

Should the Purchaser exercise such option as aforesaid, then the Purchaser shall pay to the Seller the
sum of $3,250.00 against the following sums:
Two hundred fifty Dollars ($250.00) for each one-half hour episode; and Three hundred thirty three and 33/100 Dollars ($333.33) for each one (1) hour episode; and Five hundred Dollars ($500.OO) for each episode one and one-half (1-1/2) hours or longer. The said sum of $3,250.00 shall apply against the first payment due under the per episode payments. From and after the time when additional sums are payable, such sums shall be paid at or before the commencement of principal photography of each episode. In addition to the foregoing sums, the
Seller shall be entitled to receive, and the Purchaser shall pay 25% of the original payment for each of the first four ( 4) re-runs of each such television episode, the fourth of such rerun payments to constitute full and final payment for all subsequent re-run rights without limitation.

Nothing in this Paragraph 10 contained shall constitute a requirement on the part of the Purchaser to produce or distribute any television series or episodes, whether or not the option shall have been exercised.

And the agreement with Sassoon covering FOTR and ROTK states:

9. The Seller hereby grants to the Purchaser the option to acquire television series rights in and to the Work. Such option may be exercised by the Purchaser at any time within five (5) years after the first general release of the last motion picture photoplay based upon the Work or THE TRILOGY or THE HOBBIT. A picture shall be deemed to be the "last motion picture photoplay based upon the Work or THE TRILOGY or THE HOBBIT" if principal photography has not commenced on a subsequent motion picture photoplay within three years from the first general release of the previous motion picture photoplay based upon the Work or THE TRILOGY or THE HOBBIT. "Television series rights" shall be deemed to mean the sole and exclusive right to use a character or characters, characterizations, names
of characters, settings, locations, themes, or other material suggested by or derived from the Work and the titles thereof in different stories, in separate episodes and/or in serial type television programs.

Should the Purchaser exercise such option as aforesaid, then the Purchaser shall pay to the Seller the
sums set forth on SCHEDUIE B attached hereto and made a part hereof.

Nothing in this Paragraph 9 contained shall constitute a requirement on the part of the Purchaser
to produce or distribute any television series or episodes, whether or not the option shall have been exercised.

SCHEDULE B
Should the Purchaser exercise its option as in Paragraph 9 provided, then Purchaser shall pay
to the Seller .the sum of Six Thousand Five Hundred ($6,500.00) Dollars against the following sums:
Five Hundred ($500.00) Dollars for each one-half (1/2) hour episode; and Six Hundred s:fxty Six and 67/100 ($666.67) Dollars for each one (1) hour episode; and One Thousand ($1,000.00) Dollars for each
episode one and one-half (1-1/2) hours or longer. The said sum of $6,500.00 shall apply against the first payment due under the per episode payment. From and after the time when additional sums are payable,
such sums shall be paid at or before the commencement of principal photography of each episode.
In addition to the foregoing sums, the Seller shall be entitled to receive, and the Purchaser shall pay
twenty five percent (25%) of the original payment for each of the first four (4) re-runs of each such television episode, the fourth of such re-run payments to constitute full and final payment for all subsequent re-rμn rights without limitation.

The last motion picture photoplay based upon the Work or THE TRILOGY or THE HOBBIT was released in 2013, so the option to purchase the television rights for some pretty small numbers is in play (though it is interesting to see that the numbers are slightly higher for FOTR and ROTK than for The Hobbit and The Two Towers. So the reports that the Estate is shopping these rights for hundreds of millions of dollars really do not make sense. As for the report that the rights would only cover some characters or situations, I think that is just a bunch of hooey.

by halfwise Fri Nov 10, 2017 8:01 pm

I have read said documents and declare them wack.

by bungobaggins Fri Nov 10, 2017 9:02 pm

Holy shit.

Amazon, Warner Bros in Talks for LOTR Series Adaptation: Variety - Page 4 Tenor

All this is well beyond the comprehension of my puny pea-brain. Is the estate involved in this or not? Why are they shopping the rights around when, last I had heard anything, Christopher Tolkien was vehemently against any sort of screen adaptation.

TL;DR?