Amazon, Warner Bros in Talks for LOTR Series Adaptation: Variety

This guy is considerably more optimistic than I am that Amazon will stick closer to the book lore than the films--or going off in their own direction. Christopher's opposition to the films seems less relevant now that he appears to be scaling back his involvement, including resigning his role as a director of the Estate, and the family members now most involved seem to take a considerably brighter view of adaptations in general. (I'd previously thought Adam Tolkien was the most likely one to take a leading role but that appears not to have happened.) We still don't know how much of a connection, if any, the series will have with the films, but I think it's more likely than not that Amazon will take at least some cues from them, in visual design if nothing else.

His presentation of the rights situation is somewhat odd. Unless he has inside sources, there's been no indication of a second deal, which means that The Silmarillion and Tolkien's other posthumously published works are almost certainly not available to the showrunners. The Appendices presumably are, though--the film rights to them were never separated from the rest of LOTR and I don't see any reason to assume that the TV rights deal differed in that respect. It would hardly be possible to make a Young Aragorn series without them. That doesn't have any bearing on TS, UT, or HoMe, though.

I don't think it was customary for young heirs of the Chieftains of the Dúnedain to be fostered in Rivendell. My best guess as to the source for that statement is The Tale of Aragorn and Arwen--"[t]hen Aragorn, being now the Heir of Isildur, was taken with his mother to dwell in the house of Elrond"--but my reading of this is that Elrond's decision was very specific to Aragorn's situation, being otherwise fatherless at a very young age as well as the subject of a quasi-prophecy by his grandmother Ivorwen that he was the last chance to bring hope to the Dúnedain "while this age lasts". Never mind, I'm an idiot: the bit about fostering was explicitly stated earlier in Appendix A.

I agree that it would be really cool to see parts of the East and South of Middle-earth that we've never previously glimpsed, even if it would be in the form of authorized fanfic. Harad is an area of particular interest to me based on my own Lore studies over the years. I think the Black Númenóreans most likely still existed in a number of city-states throughout Near Harad even at the end of the Third Age, not just in Umbar, but that's a sorta revisionist view so I can't criticize the video guy for suggesting otherwise. As for Khand--I didn't know this until many years after first reading LOTR, but Variag is actually a form of Varangian, and in the context of Middle-earth probably not a demonym but rather a descriptor of the military forces sent to participate in the War of the Ring. AFAIK David Salo was the first person to raise this possibility back in the '90s, but Michael Martinez has a really good discussion of the topic on one of his blogs.

I think it's doubtful that the Easterlings of the Third Age had any significant connection to/preserved traditions of the First Age Easterlings of Beleriand. We don't even know if they were directly descended from them at all, though they undoubtedly shared common descent from the ancient Morgothian peoples of the early First Age who opposed the ancestors of the Edain before their westward migration. "Easterling" was a term used by the Men of the West and might plausibly have been applied to the Third Age peoples solely by way of historical analogy.

I agree with his take on why the characterization of Aragorn differs in the films from the books, and this is one of the areas where I admit that a deviation from the film continuity seems most likely. Since the films postponed so much of Aragorn's character development, it would be considerably more difficult to give him a character arc that is satisfying as a prequel if they prioritize consistency with the Jackson films.

Well, if you were doing the showrunning, I might feel more (at all?) exited.

Thanks, Blue. Unfortunately I just remembered something and realized I fucked up with my critique re: the heirs of the Chieftains of the Dúnedain (see above edit). Not doing much for my reputation--I'm definitely rusty.

I'm actually not convinced that having people who make serious scholarly study of Tolkien's works in creative control of adaptations would be ideal. Perhaps if there was someone equally gifted as a scholar and a screenwriter, but I think the two approaches are best served by somewhat different sensibilities. I certainly hope that they have people familiar with the Lore on hand as consultants, though.

{{How can you do young Aragon as a prequel to PJ's films and base it on Tolkien?- the two have little in common- especially when it comes to Aragorn- so are we going to have to get emo whiny young Aragorn who doesn't want to be King to fit with the abomination films? Hows that going to work? Everything young Aragorn does is in preparation for one day possibly becoming King! And if he doesn't want to be King, then just like PJ's its not Aragorn- its a massive fundamental change not just tot he character but to the entire heroic sage archetype Tolkien was referring to with him.

Think that's a new record- 1.04 secs into the video I had to turn it off in crabbt rage!  If they are writing prequels to PJ's butchered Tolkien then the series is doomed to be shit before they even write a single word- the entire premise is fatally flawed and ham-stringed by the PJ association 

So disappointed- I had been holding out hope it would be a more authentic Tolkien experience, at least in terms of maintaining the spirit of the characters- but alas it seems not! }}}

I listened to this video & the only one with any sense was Viggo. He said to READ the books. This narrator cant stop applauding Peejers all the way through. I loved the films, for atmosphere, for the music, the dirt under the nails. I knew somethings were wrong, things said by the wrong person at the wrong time etc but, I still loved the ancient magical feel to it. Im thinking this isn't going to happen with the series ? By the way this chap is talking its going to be a Peejers mini. AND it has to be set in New Zealand. Does it though ? Amazon are wealthy enough to globe trot for this one & nows a good time to set the record straight.

A present for Petty:

https://www.stuff.co.nz/entertainment/celebrities/108520139/sir-peter-jackson-hasnt-given-up-hope-of-making-the-dam-busters

Jackson also revealed that Amazon had asked him about possibly being involved in upcoming The Lord of the Rings TV series, which they plan to be "set in the same world" as the movies. But while happy to share his designs and have a look at their scripts, he ruled out further involvement because of the Tolkien estate's insistence on final approval over casting, storylines and scripts. "It would be impossible for me to [direct] without that control," he said.

Jackson also admitted he would love to delve back into his own Rings footage for an extended-extended edition of the trilogy or a documentary, or both but "Warners have so far proven not very excited by the idea".

-- Peter Jackson won't be involved in a meaningful creative role.
-- The Tolkien Estate has final approval over the story and scripts.
-- The series will be "set in the same world" as the PJ films.

It's not clear what "set in the same world" means. It could just mean the same look, which I'm largely (but not completely) okay with (I'd still like scaly orcs, and I'm rather partial to Petty's idea of crops and arbors in the Pellenor). If they mean the same changes to characters that PJ introduced then I'm not okay with it.

Remember, all the Star Trek films are "set in the same world" but are hugely different. It could mean no more than set in "middle earth", not necessarily PJ's view of middle earth.

The modern (2009-present) Star Trek films are explicitly set in an alternate timeline to account for the differences from their predecessors.

I would think this means they will attempt to maintain at least some continuity with the PJ films. If they're only in the "same world" because they're both adaptations of Middle-earth works, it doesn't really make sense to me to specifically invoke the films. Then again, we don't have PJ's full statement in context and it might very well be his choice of words anyway, so who knows. We'll see what it means in practice in a couple years, I suppose.

I think the writer would invoke the films because for a frighteningly large fraction of the population, that's their main connection to middle earth. We are a rather exclusive community, the rest of the world doesn't look on Tolkien with the same eyes we do.

That's fair enough. On the other hand, LOTR is one of the most popular and best-selling books of all time so I'm not sure the movie audience is that much bigger than the readership, but there's certainly plenty of space where they don't overlap so appealing to both groups would be important for marketers.

I imagine that there are a great number of people alive today who have seen the Jackson films but not read the books. Of those in my own family, for example, there is only my sister and myself who have read the books*, while my 5 other siblings and my parents have seen the movies.


*although my sister skipped a portion of The Two Towers because "it was boring"!!!

the Emyn Muil and Dead Marshes was rather boring, but the rest moved on at a pretty good clip. Despite a snowboarding Legolas Helm's Deep is a front runner for the best battle scene ever filmed.

Don't agree with a lot of what he said. Dont think PJ will have anything to do with this apart from letting them use his sets/props/ models and the like.

Agreed. Amazon would be royally stupid to lock themselves in as much as this guy suggests.

halfwise wrote:the Emyn Muil and Dead Marshes was rather boring, but the rest moved on at a pretty good clip.  Despite a snowboarding Legolas Helm's Deep is a front runner for the best battle scene ever filmed.

Are you talking about the book or the movies? Frodo and Sam and Gollum's journey through the Emyn Muil and Dead Marshes is not boring in the books as I remember.

Movie - note the Helm's deep reference.

I couldn't get interested in watching anything relating PJ to this.

On the second one, I nearly blew a stack when it was suggested they'd use the "Lord of the Rings" name for this. I don't see why they would send PJ scripts, that wasn't the strongest part of his films. This guy is WAY too hung up on PJ.

Can I hear ya say fanboy?

Besides, PJ was only 1/3rd of the creative power behind the scripts for LotR. One musn't forget the Warlock's Coven.

So we have this Amazon project, and more GOT. . .


. . . and I'm very much looking forward to the new Tolkien biopic however, whatever may come...


. . . and very happy about the prospect of a new Tool album in 2019. Oh how the faithful have waited!


. . . and I hear there's a new Dune film in the early stages of. . .

being made I guess. Anyway. Yes!