Sauron in the Hobbit

If they drop the White Council foolisness, mention 'the Necromancer' and proceed with a proper adaptation, at least we'll have one (two?) decent movies to watch. It will still act as a Prelude to the LotR movies if we stick to the story in the book. The 'rumour' of the Necromancer was superb in the book. Watching the movie/s, folk will be saying, "Who's this mysterious Necromancer?" And those who have watched the LotR movies (or, Eru forbid, have actually read the books! ) will say, (quietly), "I know!" Oh wouldn't it be lovely. I say it not as a Purist (as such) but as a sensible hobbit. But, no, all hope is lost...

Hey! it was my idea too ya know

Was it, Mrs Figg? I really should start reading your posts, what...

what.

Eldo I always took the entry on 'taking his shape' at the time of Dol Guldur literally- knowing he had lost his physical form already that always seemed to make sense to me- and that by the time of LotR's and with the completion of Barad-dur and Mount Doom rooaring back into activity that 'taking shape' process was complete.
PJ's problem is slightly different though thanks to presenting Sauron as a literal big eyeball in LotR's.

You know, I never really baulked at the 'flaming eye' thing... but it was stupid... Maybe I had just got so hardened and inured to all the other abominations that I couldn't see it for looking...

What 'what', Mrs Figg?

{{I knew this sort of thing would happen if I started reading Mrs Figgs posts...just knew it... }}}

He showed him as the ten foot warrior too dont forget.

Mrs Figg wrote:He showed him as the ten foot warrior too dont forget.

Of which you approved?

Yes but he also showed the ten foot warior version getting the Ring chopped off and being destroyed long before TH.

I didn't totally hate that scene, I admit. Where you put it in your Edits made it even more acceptable.

OH POO! that foils my cunning idea.

Pettytyrant101 wrote:Eldo I always took the entry on 'taking his shape' at the time of Dol Guldur literally- knowing he had lost his physical form already that always seemed to make sense to me- and that by the time of LotR's and with the completion of Barad-dur and Mount Doom rooaring back into activity that 'taking shape' process was complete.

Perhaps, but I can't think of a reference to suggest that the taking shape process was still ongoing during the time of The Hobbit/right before LOTR. It begs the question of how Sauron would have moved when he abandoned Dol Guldur for 400 years during the Watchful Peace (which began just a few years after the mention of him taking shape in 2060) yet still remained in communication with his forces. I don't think Tolkien commented directly on the matter but I never got the sense that Sauron was intended to be disembodied that late in the history. I think the idea of disembodiment owes much of its persistence to Sauron's depiction in the movies.

PJ's problem is slightly different though thanks to presenting Sauron as a literal big eyeball in LotR's.

Indeed.

Since when did you start having 'cunning ideas' Mrs Figg. It's like I never really knew you...?

To be honest Eldo I have never given much thought to how he moved. I had always taken the whole idea of incarnate evil and the slow strengthening and regaining of power until there is an eventual physical form on a rather metaphoric level. So I never saw him moving from location to location whilst disembodied a problem (he must have done to get to wherever he hid out immediately after Numenor and after the Last Alliance). Mordor wasn't ready was how I saw it, rather than him being disembodied was any impediment to his going there.

I have cunning ideas but Petty always blows them out of the water, its really annoying. My cunning plan is this, what if they show him as the 10 foot warrior so he can move around from DG to Morders, but when they take his helmet off, steady on, he is kinda smoky inside and his face is all wibbly wobbly, heh? beat that for a cunning plan suckers.

Sorry Mrs Figg! Although I suspect being sorry wont stop me from doing it again in the future!

Mrs Figg wrote:My cunning plan is this, what if they show him as the 10 foot warrior so he can move around from DG to Morders, but when they take his helmet off, steady on, he is kinda smoky inside and his face is all wibbly wobbly, heh? beat that for a cunning plan suckers.

Like a smoky-jelly? Yes.... go on...

well it kills two Balrogs with one stone dunnit?

Comedy and stupity with one flourish?

what

Life is so much more fun since Mrs Figg arrived.

{{{She is such a Dodo-bird, don't you think, Petty --- and you can't read this encrypted message, Mrs Figg, so don't pretend you can! }}}

Dodo? You mean eaten by sailors?

Whatever could you mean Mrs Figg and what have dodo's to so with anything?

{{{She's an odd one is Mrs Figg Orwell- now she's is seeing dodo's which means she read your message to me!}}}

Pettytyrant101 wrote:To be honest Eldo I have never given much thought to how he moved. I had always taken the whole idea of incarnate evil and the slow strengthening and regaining of power until there is an eventual physical form on a rather metaphoric level. So I never saw him moving from location to location whilst disembodied a problem (he must have done to get to wherever he hid out immediately after Numenor and after the Last Alliance). Mordor wasn't ready was how I saw it, rather than him being disembodied was any impediment to his going there.

I suppose I take a more literally-minded approach, not to say that yours is wrong! For what it's worth, Tolkien was pretty vague about how Sauron moved and what he did while disembodied. If I recall correctly, his response when asked how a disembodied Sauron could have saved the physical Ring from the destruction of Numenor was to say that people shouldn't think too hard about it.