Re: The Bigger, Badder, Even More Serious Thread [4]

[Pettytyrant101]

But how do you stop it?- in this case some information got as far as being passed to police then nothing and now its all been mysteriously lost, police and government records of it.

When viewing that in light of the police behaviour over Hillsborough, the Lawrence case, the ongoing investigations into taking brown envelope money in return for information on cases and suspects, and trying to stitch up a government cabinet minister and force him to resign by falsifying testimony then you have to wonder who is supposed to enforce the law and investigate any of this when the investigators are clearly part of the corruption and the people they are supposed to be investigating are the suspects and in the ruling class.

[azriel]

You wont see an end to it. Its gone on for centuries. The greed people can have, the urge to feed that greed will never end. I really cant see a way to regulate, police, guard against it ? Whatever good you do someone will slip under the radar & inch by inch the foul stench of human depravity, lust & greed (with no fooking conscience !) will slowly rise up. Its gonna take some very strong willed people willing the crush corruption, like Saville case, Hills boro' etc (even the Diana case ?) to come thru & stamp it down. I wont say stamp it out as I think thanks to human desire it feels an impossiblity.

[Pettytyrant101]

I agree it can never be stamped out, but this is starting to look a lot less like people slipping under the radar inch by inch and a lot more like a whole protected elite paedophile ring of top celebrities, politicians, police, and possibly even nobility all covering up their heinous crimes from within the highest ranks of the establishment, for decades.

[azriel]

God yes ! One would not be mistaken in thinking Royalty invented lies,deceit,corruption & best of all..........cover ups ! pay offs ! bribes,'you scratch my doo-dads etc'. I still believe it starts at the top & infiltrates down. Its only after Princess Margret popped off that juicy goss crept out. not that juicy gossip isnt new to Royalty. Plagues them like a bed of fleas. The biggest cover up is the Ripper story. I just dont know what to think about that but, there's others who strongly believe Royalty have their part to play.

[Eldorion]

Interesting report.  What ever happened to the dossier, though?  If nothing was taken during the break-ins, surely Mr Dickens still had a copy.

Edit: never mind, I scrolled back up and saw Petty's first post on the matter. Really disheartening stuff to read, but very important too.

[Pettytyrant101]

The question now is will the hue and cry over these missing dossiers and what went on lead anywhere, or will it all disappear once more once the press have found a new thing to scream and yell about?

[Eldorion]

Well for as hyped up as the British tabloid press gets about pedophilia I'd like to hope they do, but then I remember stuff like this and lose any semblance of hope with regards to the media.

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[David H]

My guess if that if anything changes it's not going to be because of a missing report. It will be because the victims start coming forward by the 10's and 100's to testify and perhaps file legal suits. That's what it took to finally get the pedophile priests on the run. That's what it'll take to get the pedophile celebrities.

[Pettytyrant101]

But these aren't just celebrities- they are the ones grabbing the media spotlight, its cops, judges and MP's too implicated in all this. There are whole childrens homes that seem to have been sort of farms, producing fresh victims for the important to discreetly make use of.

All the stuff that usually sounds like bonkers conspiracy stuff seems to be actually coming to light as having happened.

[David H]

Just the same, once there starts being salatious first-hand testimony from people who were abused as kids by authority figures, they're all grist for the media mill.   

[Mrs Figg]

ha ha no wonder Brittan 'lost'  that report, he was accused of raping someone in the 60s.

[Pettytyrant101]

Yeah its not going well this investigation. Already they have discovered that a further 114 related files on child sex abuse in Westminster from the late 70's to the 90's have also 'gone missing'.

And still Cameron refuses to have a public enquiry into it.
Instead he is promising to set up a Home Office review- to look into the Home Office review they conducted last year about the documents.

Its a pathetic response.

[David H]

Already they have discovered that a further 114 related files on child sex abuse in Westminster from the late 70's to the 90's have also 'gone missing'.

Pedophiles AND kleptomaniacs!  

[Pettytyrant101]

As cover ups go this one looks farcical, its amazing they got away with it this long.

[Mrs Figg]

I reckon when this one blows its going to be a whopper scandal.

[Mrs Figg]

Yeah its not going well this investigation. Already they have discovered that a further 114 related files on child sex abuse in Westminster from the late 70's to the 90's have also 'gone missing'.

And still Cameron refuses to have a public enquiry into it.
Instead he is promising to set up a Home Office review- to look into the Home Office review they conducted last year about the documents.

Its a pathetic response.

firstly. dont use this as an excuse to attack Cameron. MPs have asked for an independent enquiry not a public one as it is far quicker and efficient, secondly Cameron has said they 'will leave no stone unturned' to find out what happened. thirdly Cameron was little more than a teenager when this all happened, and any PM who gets a massive scandal like this on his watch is going to groan a bit, be it a labour gvt or Tory, he is swimming in someone elses shit. I think gvt is fully committed now to an enquiry whether they want it or not.

[David H]

thirdly Cameron was little more than a teenager when this all happened,

This made me google him. Cameron was born in 1966, so he would have been 30 by 1996. Was he working in government then?
And is anybody saying that the child sex abuse stopped in the 90's? That's just when the files that disappeared were from, right?

[Pettytyrant101]

He was indeed working in government at that time David- he was special adviser to Norman Lamont and Michael Howard, and in fact worked at the Home Office when Howard was Home Secretary from 93-97.

The missing records cover 1979-1999.

And Figg I was not blaming Cameron for anything other than refusing a public enquiry- yes they take longer but they are the only sort of enquiry where people cannot refuse to give evidence, where evidence is given under oath, and where prosecution under the law can happen for failing to comply with the investigation.

Any other sort of govt enquiry does not have legal powers to make anyone give evidence.

[Mrs Figg]

We all know Petty hates Cameron and blames him for everything so I was just saying that a knee jerk reaction to attacking Cameron for everything is a bit silly. He wasnt in power then and it doesnt matter his exact age in the 80s when this document went missing. The fact is that now he has said he is prepared to do eveything to find out what happened. I am not a fan of Cameron or am I defending his larger track record but in this case criticism is unjustified.

[Pettytyrant101]

That is disingenuous Figg- my complaint is quite clear- there should be a public enquiry, I would say that regardless of who was in power for the reasons I listed above, its the highest, most indepth type of enquiry a government can call- and if a secret paedophile ring existing for at least two decades and possibly still existing at the heart of our government does not warrant a public enquiry then I dont know what does.

Cameron is not doing everything he can is the point, he is saying he is doing everything he can whilst refusing to do the one thing that would be a legally binding investigation.

[Mrs Figg]

and you mentioning Cameron is disengenuous, as the Home Secretary has today ordered a full enquiry, so why attack Cameron? he has NOT refused a full enquiry. maybe you should check your facts before going on the offensive.

[Pettytyrant101]

Actually I watched the entire announcement and debate in the Commons this afternoon, I doubt you did- there is no public enquiry- what they have set up is an independent enquiry, which the Home Secretary says can be turned into a public enquiry if there seems the need to.
So please if you are going to accuse someone of not having the facts, check your facts first.

The crucial difference is the legal requirements- only a public enquiry has the authority of a Court.

I'd say that need already exists.

Since 2000 we have had quite a few public enquiries - the Bristol Enquiry, into heart surgery at a children's hospital, Laming enquiry into the death of Victoria Climbe, fingerprint enquiry- looking at its use in legal cases, Fraser enquiry into the cost of the Scottish Parliament building, the S.Wales e.coli enquiry, Hutton enquiry into the death of David Kelly, the Shipman enquiry into doctor Harold Shipman, Grove rail enquiry, looking at the rail crash at Paddington, Hamill enquiry into the death of Robert Hamill, Ladbroke grove enquiry, another rail crash, ICL enquiry into an explosion in a factory, the Iraq enquiry, the Nelson enquiry into the death of Rosemary Nelson, and Leveson looking into the conduct of the press.

Are you telling me all those, deemed serious enough to warrant a full public enquiry, are all more serious than child abuse among the ruling classes?

It should be a full public enquiry.

What we have is half a dozen separate investigations taking place in different departments instead of one overreaching enquiry into all of it.

[Mrs Figg]

you doubt I did? if it makes you feel better, but I did listen to all of it, and splitting hairs comes to mind. an enquiry whether public or independent is unimportant, the important thing is they are doing something positive, so unfortunately on this one you wont be able to propagandize for the 'we hate the English gvt club'

[Pettytyrant101]

Its not splitting hairs- its the difference between asking questions and people being able to refuse or even give evidence- and a public enquiry where they are compelled by law to give their evidence- thats a big difference.

And I assumed you hadnt heard the debate this afternoon or you would have known its not a public enquiry.

[Mrs Figg]

I already told you it was an independent enquiry but you obviously didnt read my post where I said,


''firstly. dont use this as an excuse to attack Cameron. MPs have asked for an independent enquiry not a public one as it is far quicker and efficient''.

so get your facts straight before you start on the supercilious comments.


Theresa May has ordered a ‘Hillsborough-style’ inquiry into historic allegations of child sex abuse.
It will involve an independent board of experts, similar to the panel that investigated the 1989 football disaster.
The Home Secretary said it would be able to begin its work sooner and review existing files, instead of trying to take evidence from people or organisations who may be subject to police inquiries.
The terms of reference will be agreed with the panel once it has been appointed.
But Mrs May said she expected it to be wide-ranging, and could cover the BBC and the Church.
If the inquiry panel chairman deems it necessary, the government is 'prepared' to convert it into a full public inquiry. CNN