Ralph Bakshi version
+10
malickfan
Bluebottle
Eldorion
David H
Mrs Figg
Elthir
Pettytyrant101
Radaghast
Forest Shepherd
RA
14 posters
Page 9 of 9
Page 9 of 9 • 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9
Re: Ralph Bakshi version
My favorite part of the books may have also been the descriptions of the landscapes; it created a backdrop of the area for me. Then the characters like Bergil and Beregond established the mood and painted the backdrop so it wasn't barren.
Last edited by Recoveryanonymous on Tue Mar 25, 2014 1:05 am; edited 1 time in total
_________________
"No one knows what the new day shall bring him" -Aragorn T.A. 3019 March 4th
Save Merp for 2013!
25,000 and counting. 12-23-12
"From him they learnt many things it were not good for any but the great Valar to know, for being half-comprehended such deep hidden things slay happiness; and besides many of the sayings of Melko were cunning lies or were but partly true, and the Noldoli ceased to sing, and their viols fell silent upon the hill of Kôr, for their hearts grew somewhat older as their lore grew deeper and their desires more swollen, and the books of their wisdom were multiplied as the leaves of the forest."
Remember Merp - July 11th, 2013
RA- Defender of the faith and Dunedain of the thread
- Posts : 1776
Join date : 2012-02-12
Location : Buckland
Re: Ralph Bakshi version
I thought I'd glance at the script for FotR and I already see problems with it on the first page.
http://www.imsdb.com/scripts/Lord-of-the-Rings-Fellowship-of-the-Ring,-The.html
While the opening montage might be effective and economical, did they have to to oversimplify it so much? I think both versions suffer from this.
I also think both versions depict events transpiring without showing why.
http://www.imsdb.com/scripts/Lord-of-the-Rings-Fellowship-of-the-Ring,-The.html
While the opening montage might be effective and economical, did they have to to oversimplify it so much? I think both versions suffer from this.
I also think both versions depict events transpiring without showing why.
Last edited by Radaghast on Tue Mar 25, 2014 1:12 am; edited 1 time in total
_________________
The wolf one hears is worse than the orc one fears.
http://helob.deviantart.com/gallery/
https://stopthesecrecy.net/
Radaghast- Barrel-rider
- Posts : 1748
Join date : 2013-06-12
Location : The place where that thing is.
Re: Ralph Bakshi version
Pettytyrant101 wrote:I am just amazed that people who seem to have so little liking, and so little regard for Tolkiens dialogue would want to be the ones to make his work into films.
Imagine someone wanting and not just wanting, but moving mountains to get a Shakespeare play adapted for the screen, undertaking years of hard work to see it made, but doing it all without actually liking the language or wanting to use his words.
It boggles my mind as to why.
Well the cynical answer would be that PJ just wanted to make a big SFX-heavy fantasy epic, and he just used LOTR to provide a framework for him to play around in as a director. An even more cynical answer would be that he just wanted to cash in on the name recognition, but I don't think the evidence for that is sufficient for such an accusation.
A more charitable answer would be that PJ enjoyed LOTR for its worlbuilding and cool battles and stuff rather than a nuanced appreciation of Tolkien's use of language.
Re: Ralph Bakshi version
but I don't think the evidence for that is sufficient for such an accusation.- Eldo
I agree. It doesnt add up for those reasons.
And whilst your charitable answer might be true of Pj it doesnt explain why the Coven wanted to do it when they dont seem to like Tolkiens writing any more than Pj does.
Its a puzzler.
"I also think both versions depict events transpiring without showing why."- Radaghast
Id agree with that. PJ also gives way too much away far too soon and long before its required or desired in the plotting.
I agree. It doesnt add up for those reasons.
And whilst your charitable answer might be true of Pj it doesnt explain why the Coven wanted to do it when they dont seem to like Tolkiens writing any more than Pj does.
Its a puzzler.
"I also think both versions depict events transpiring without showing why."- Radaghast
Id agree with that. PJ also gives way too much away far too soon and long before its required or desired in the plotting.
_________________
Pure Publications, The Tower of Lore and the Former Admin's Office are Reasonably Proud to Present-
A Green And Pleasant Land
Compiled and annotated by Eldy.
- get your copy here for a limited period- free*
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1yjYiz8nuL3LqJ-yP9crpDKu_BH-1LwJU/view
*Pure Publications reserves the right to track your usage of this publication, snoop on your home address, go through your bins and sell personal information on to the highest bidder.
Warning may contain Wholesome Tales[/b]
A Green And Pleasant Land
Compiled and annotated by Eldy.
- get your copy here for a limited period- free*
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1yjYiz8nuL3LqJ-yP9crpDKu_BH-1LwJU/view
*Pure Publications reserves the right to track your usage of this publication, snoop on your home address, go through your bins and sell personal information on to the highest bidder.
Warning may contain Wholesome Tales[/b]
the crabbit will suffer neither sleight of hand nor half-truths. - Forest
Pettytyrant101- Crabbitmeister
- Posts : 46837
Join date : 2011-02-14
Age : 53
Location : Scotshobbitland
Re: Ralph Bakshi version
Arguing about the dialogue in LOTR being modern is just quibbling. Its an adaptation and its obviously truncated for cinema. I dont understand how anyone can watch those films and not be struck by the beauty of the Language used. Just taking one character as an example, Boromir. His speeches are very Tolkien inspired if not to the letter. I cant think of one example of modern words creeping in to spoil the atmosphere. The dialogue had a particular world building quality to it and never felt to me like its was out of place. Not once did I feel it was not part of ME. Its nice when they use word for word dialogue but PJ didnt need to as he conjured up ME without it.
In contrast the dialogue in The Hobbit films was the worst kind of banal rubbish. Modern phrasing and even words popped up out of the blue, and worse than that modern mannerisms which completely ruined any sense of ME.
In contrast the dialogue in The Hobbit films was the worst kind of banal rubbish. Modern phrasing and even words popped up out of the blue, and worse than that modern mannerisms which completely ruined any sense of ME.
Mrs Figg- Eel Wrangler from Bree
- Posts : 25974
Join date : 2011-10-06
Age : 94
Location : Holding The Door
Re: Ralph Bakshi version
I think the final word has to be that clearly PJ's version convinced more people to read the books than Bakshi's version, which if anything convinced people not to read the books.
If you believe that Tolkien is his own best advertisement, then taken as a whole PJ must have been closer to Tolkien.
If you believe that Tolkien is his own best advertisement, then taken as a whole PJ must have been closer to Tolkien.
_________________
Halfwise, son of Halfwit. Brother of Nitwit, son of Halfwit. Half brother of Figwit.
Then it gets complicated...
halfwise- Quintessence of Burrahobbitry
- Posts : 20636
Join date : 2012-02-01
Location : rustic broom closet in farthing of Manhattan
Re: Ralph Bakshi version
First off, How adorable is that kitten.....Re:- Figgs
Then, after reading most of this thread I think...society, or rather the perception of society, has steered Peejeers to use the diluted language that he did use for LOTRs. He condensed it down to practically base level.It was verbally recognisable by the masses, so selling the film was easier. Cant have something as complicated as say, "Coriolanus" ? to listen to, take to long to work out what the words meant ! It was still acceptable I think, the lines the actors used, It didnt offend me as The Hobbit has ! fook, what vile toilet dross of wording was that !! PJ just got away with it in LOTRs,but, if he had only included just a smattering of original language from Tolkien !! There were bits idly strewn out throughout the films, chucked about here & there, bits said at the wrong time by the wrong people but, cos it was written by Tolkien, Peejeers must have thought "that'll do" ...."We'll stick this line here & have so & so say it, it goes so...." Just cos some words matches the scenery it doesnt always make it right. Majority of Shakespeare's work is still kept in its original text, if its altered the billing says so.
(love the kitty Figgy ! )
Then, after reading most of this thread I think...society, or rather the perception of society, has steered Peejeers to use the diluted language that he did use for LOTRs. He condensed it down to practically base level.It was verbally recognisable by the masses, so selling the film was easier. Cant have something as complicated as say, "Coriolanus" ? to listen to, take to long to work out what the words meant ! It was still acceptable I think, the lines the actors used, It didnt offend me as The Hobbit has ! fook, what vile toilet dross of wording was that !! PJ just got away with it in LOTRs,but, if he had only included just a smattering of original language from Tolkien !! There were bits idly strewn out throughout the films, chucked about here & there, bits said at the wrong time by the wrong people but, cos it was written by Tolkien, Peejeers must have thought "that'll do" ...."We'll stick this line here & have so & so say it, it goes so...." Just cos some words matches the scenery it doesnt always make it right. Majority of Shakespeare's work is still kept in its original text, if its altered the billing says so.
(love the kitty Figgy ! )
_________________
"All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to us. It's the job that's never started as takes longest to finish.”
"There are far, far, better things ahead than any we can leave behind"
If you always do what you have always done, you will always get what you always got
azriel- Grumpy cat, rub my tummy, hear me purr
- Posts : 15722
Join date : 2012-10-07
Age : 65
Location : in a galaxy, far,far away, deep in my own imagination.
Re: Ralph Bakshi version
Mrs Figg I direct you to the Faramir thread to listen to the short extract there.
Compare the language and the rhythms and the construction to that which PJ gave us and tell me with a straight face PJ's version is not modern.
I agree wholeheartdely Azriel.
Compare the language and the rhythms and the construction to that which PJ gave us and tell me with a straight face PJ's version is not modern.
I agree wholeheartdely Azriel.
_________________
Pure Publications, The Tower of Lore and the Former Admin's Office are Reasonably Proud to Present-
A Green And Pleasant Land
Compiled and annotated by Eldy.
- get your copy here for a limited period- free*
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1yjYiz8nuL3LqJ-yP9crpDKu_BH-1LwJU/view
*Pure Publications reserves the right to track your usage of this publication, snoop on your home address, go through your bins and sell personal information on to the highest bidder.
Warning may contain Wholesome Tales[/b]
A Green And Pleasant Land
Compiled and annotated by Eldy.
- get your copy here for a limited period- free*
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1yjYiz8nuL3LqJ-yP9crpDKu_BH-1LwJU/view
*Pure Publications reserves the right to track your usage of this publication, snoop on your home address, go through your bins and sell personal information on to the highest bidder.
Warning may contain Wholesome Tales[/b]
the crabbit will suffer neither sleight of hand nor half-truths. - Forest
Pettytyrant101- Crabbitmeister
- Posts : 46837
Join date : 2011-02-14
Age : 53
Location : Scotshobbitland
Re: Ralph Bakshi version
It may be necessary to condense dialogue and truncate lines, depending on the type of adaptation but I still don't see the justification for the changes in PJ. Just don't.
Take this line by movie-Galadriel:
First of all, correct me if I'm wrong, is this line anywhere in the book? If it is, I'll shut up. But right now, I'm gonna go out on a limb and say it's not. Because it's a blanket statement, a gross oversimplification, arrogantly spoken and, frankly, an insult. I'll be shocked if it's in the book.
Second of all, who the hell is Galadriel talking to?!
How about this?
Take this line by movie-Galadriel:
And Nine...nine rings were gifted to the race of Men who, above all else, desire power.
First of all, correct me if I'm wrong, is this line anywhere in the book? If it is, I'll shut up. But right now, I'm gonna go out on a limb and say it's not. Because it's a blanket statement, a gross oversimplification, arrogantly spoken and, frankly, an insult. I'll be shocked if it's in the book.
Second of all, who the hell is Galadriel talking to?!
How about this?
Okay, why would Sauron, after just having used his mace on Elendil, reach with his hand for Isildur on the ground? For a dramatic moment? Is there no other way to create drama that doesn't require making it also be head-crashingly stupid?IMAGE: SAURON lays waste to the armies of the LAST ALLIANCE. With desperate courage, ELENDIL leads a charge...THE BLACK
MACE OF SAURON LASHES OUT!! IMAGE: ELENDIL'S body falls like a crumpled rag doll... IMAGE: ISILDUR cradles the body of his father in his arms. The SHADOW OF SAURON falls over him...
GALADRIEL (V.O.) (CONT'D)
It was in this moment..when all hope had
faded, that Isildur, son of the king,
took up his father's sword.
ISILDUR snatches up the BROKEN BLADE OF NARSIL..The BLADE severs SAURON'S FINGERS... AND THE ONE RING FLIES from his body.
_________________
The wolf one hears is worse than the orc one fears.
http://helob.deviantart.com/gallery/
https://stopthesecrecy.net/
Radaghast- Barrel-rider
- Posts : 1748
Join date : 2013-06-12
Location : The place where that thing is.
Re: Ralph Bakshi version
I like all that stuff. I think its awesome
Mrs Figg- Eel Wrangler from Bree
- Posts : 25974
Join date : 2011-10-06
Age : 94
Location : Holding The Door
Re: Ralph Bakshi version
Mrs Figgs wrote:I like all that stuff. I think its awesome
Isn't that a different argument than if the dialogue is modern sounding or not though?
_________________
"No one knows what the new day shall bring him" -Aragorn T.A. 3019 March 4th
Save Merp for 2013!
25,000 and counting. 12-23-12
"From him they learnt many things it were not good for any but the great Valar to know, for being half-comprehended such deep hidden things slay happiness; and besides many of the sayings of Melko were cunning lies or were but partly true, and the Noldoli ceased to sing, and their viols fell silent upon the hill of Kôr, for their hearts grew somewhat older as their lore grew deeper and their desires more swollen, and the books of their wisdom were multiplied as the leaves of the forest."
Remember Merp - July 11th, 2013
RA- Defender of the faith and Dunedain of the thread
- Posts : 1776
Join date : 2012-02-12
Location : Buckland
Re: Ralph Bakshi version
not really because I dont think LOTR is modern sounding.
Mrs Figg- Eel Wrangler from Bree
- Posts : 25974
Join date : 2011-10-06
Age : 94
Location : Holding The Door
Re: Ralph Bakshi version
Fair enough then.
_________________
"No one knows what the new day shall bring him" -Aragorn T.A. 3019 March 4th
Save Merp for 2013!
25,000 and counting. 12-23-12
"From him they learnt many things it were not good for any but the great Valar to know, for being half-comprehended such deep hidden things slay happiness; and besides many of the sayings of Melko were cunning lies or were but partly true, and the Noldoli ceased to sing, and their viols fell silent upon the hill of Kôr, for their hearts grew somewhat older as their lore grew deeper and their desires more swollen, and the books of their wisdom were multiplied as the leaves of the forest."
Remember Merp - July 11th, 2013
RA- Defender of the faith and Dunedain of the thread
- Posts : 1776
Join date : 2012-02-12
Location : Buckland
Re: Ralph Bakshi version
I think it's anti-awesome; and anti-logical too.Mrs Figg wrote:I like all that stuff. I think its awesome
Radaghast- Barrel-rider
- Posts : 1748
Join date : 2013-06-12
Location : The place where that thing is.
Re: Ralph Bakshi version
Pettytyrant101 wrote:Mrs Figg I direct you to the Faramir thread to listen to the short extract there.
Compare the language and the rhythms and the construction to that which PJ gave us and tell me with a straight face PJ's version is not modern.
Most of PJ's dialogue is not what I would describe as modern (several glaring counterexamples notwithstanding as most of those are quite brief). I'm sure it's less "authentic" than Tolkien's, and is probably a (not entirely consistent) mix of different styles rather than a manner in which people ever actually spoke, but it's not modern either. IMO.
Re: Ralph Bakshi version
Radaghast wrote:First of all, correct me if I'm wrong, is this line anywhere in the book? If it is, I'll shut up. But right now, I'm gonna go out on a limb and say it's not. Because it's a blanket statement, a gross oversimplification, arrogantly spoken and, frankly, an insult. I'll be shocked if it's in the book.
You are correct, it's not in the book. The films are definitely more misanthropic than the book. However, I suspect this is less due to any philosophical differences between Tolkien and Jackson and more just PJ and Co. being all like "elves are so totally kewl and way more awesome than humans!"
Second of all, who the hell is Galadriel talking to?!
I wouldn't overthink voiceover narration.
Okay, why would Sauron, after just having used his mace on Elendil, reach with his hand for Isildur on the ground? For a dramatic moment? Is there no other way to create drama that doesn't require making it also be head-crashingly stupid?
Yeah, it's pretty contrived, but I do think it's a nice scene.
Re: Ralph Bakshi version
For me what both adaptions seem to lack is a basic love of their subject matter. They are both attempts at making epic fantasy movies, not great portrayals of Tolkiens work. That basic love and care is what's lacking from both of them for me.
I think it's been to long since I saw the Bakshi versions to get into a discussions of degrees though.
I think it's been to long since I saw the Bakshi versions to get into a discussions of degrees though.
_________________
“We're doomed,” he says, casually. “There's no question about that. But it's OK to be doomed because then you can just enjoy your life."
Bluebottle- Concerned citizen
- Posts : 10100
Join date : 2013-11-09
Age : 38
Re: Ralph Bakshi version
Yeah, before that, there was "elves, fairest of all beings." Wow, including the Maiar, the Valar and Iluvatar?Eldorion wrote:Radaghast wrote:First of all, correct me if I'm wrong, is this line anywhere in the book? If it is, I'll shut up. But right now, I'm gonna go out on a limb and say it's not. Because it's a blanket statement, a gross oversimplification, arrogantly spoken and, frankly, an insult. I'll be shocked if it's in the book.
You are correct, it's not in the book. The films are definitely more misanthropic than the book. However, I suspect this is less due to any philosophical differences between Tolkien and Jackson and more just PJ and Co. being all like "elves are so totally kewl and way more awesome than humans!"
Why not? In this movie it seems an awful lot like breaking the fourth wall.Second of all, who the hell is Galadriel talking to?!
I wouldn't overthink voiceover narration.
Well, we'll have to disagree there (and I thought Sauron looked ridiculous). But, anyway, it would have been a nice touch if Isildur cut off Sauron's foot as a nod to The Silmarillion; or at least stabbed him in the leg or foot, causing him to fall. I think that would have made more sense and been truer to the book.Okay, why would Sauron, after just having used his mace on Elendil, reach with his hand for Isildur on the ground? For a dramatic moment? Is there no other way to create drama that doesn't require making it also be head-crashingly stupid?
Yeah, it's pretty contrived, but I do think it's a nice scene.
_________________
The wolf one hears is worse than the orc one fears.
http://helob.deviantart.com/gallery/
https://stopthesecrecy.net/
Radaghast- Barrel-rider
- Posts : 1748
Join date : 2013-06-12
Location : The place where that thing is.
Re: Ralph Bakshi version
The fourth wall isn't inviolate. Tolkien himself openly disregarded it at times, though more often in The Hobbit. That said, if they wanted the narration to be in the style of Tolkien's storytelling, then they should have had it be delivered by Bilbo or Frodo. Interestingly, they actually did have Holm and Wood record the lines (as well as a couple other actors) before deciding to us Cate Blanchett's take.
Sauron's armor was definitely not practical (though not as bad an offender as the Witch-king's helmet from ROTK). You won't get any argument from me here. Honestly, this sort of thing used to bother me several years ago, but I really don't mind it anymore and sometimes it even offers a cheesy sort of charm. I understand where you're coming from but it just isn't a big deal to me at this point. I do think, though, that it would have been cool to see a fight between Sauron, Elendil, and Gil-galad, but that would probably have been too long for the prologue considering everything else they wanted to cover.
Sauron's armor was definitely not practical (though not as bad an offender as the Witch-king's helmet from ROTK). You won't get any argument from me here. Honestly, this sort of thing used to bother me several years ago, but I really don't mind it anymore and sometimes it even offers a cheesy sort of charm. I understand where you're coming from but it just isn't a big deal to me at this point. I do think, though, that it would have been cool to see a fight between Sauron, Elendil, and Gil-galad, but that would probably have been too long for the prologue considering everything else they wanted to cover.
Re: Ralph Bakshi version
I don't mind a disembodied narrator talks to the audience if he or she does it throughout the movie. For a character to do it and only once kind of takes me out of it. I can't say I recall any instance of the narrator addressing the reader in LotR, though.Eldorion wrote:The fourth wall isn't inviolate. Tolkien himself openly disregarded it at times, though more often in The Hobbit. That said, if they wanted the narration to be in the style of Tolkien's storytelling, then they should have had it be delivered by Bilbo or Frodo. Interestingly, they actually did have Holm and Wood record the lines (as well as a couple other actors) before deciding to us Cate Blanchett's take.
I don't think have taken more than a few minutes more—5 tops—with skillful editing. Besides, if they wanted to create a dramatic moment there, why go cheap with it?Sauron's armor was definitely not practical (though not as bad an offender as the Witch-king's helmet from ROTK). You won't get any argument from me here. Honestly, this sort of thing used to bother me several years ago, but I really don't mind it anymore and sometimes it even offers a cheesy sort of charm. I understand where you're coming from but it just isn't a big deal to me at this point. I do think, though, that it would have been cool to see a fight between Sauron, Elendil, and Gil-galad, but that would probably have been too long for the prologue considering everything else they wanted to cover.
_________________
The wolf one hears is worse than the orc one fears.
http://helob.deviantart.com/gallery/
https://stopthesecrecy.net/
Radaghast- Barrel-rider
- Posts : 1748
Join date : 2013-06-12
Location : The place where that thing is.
Re: Ralph Bakshi version
I have the Bakshi version of LOTRs on dvd and awful as it is with how hes depicted the Hobbits etc Im drawn to the darn thing well, good old Ebay had this the other day & I Just had to bid for it & guess who won The pictures are great, clear and vibrant. I havent listened to the 7inch vinyl yet, Im saving that for when boredom sets in, but I havent seen anything like this before.
_________________
"All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to us. It's the job that's never started as takes longest to finish.”
"There are far, far, better things ahead than any we can leave behind"
If you always do what you have always done, you will always get what you always got
azriel- Grumpy cat, rub my tummy, hear me purr
- Posts : 15722
Join date : 2012-10-07
Age : 65
Location : in a galaxy, far,far away, deep in my own imagination.
Re: Ralph Bakshi version
So they had gotten that far...
_________________
Halfwise, son of Halfwit. Brother of Nitwit, son of Halfwit. Half brother of Figwit.
Then it gets complicated...
halfwise- Quintessence of Burrahobbitry
- Posts : 20636
Join date : 2012-02-01
Location : rustic broom closet in farthing of Manhattan
Re: Ralph Bakshi version
{{ Sort of Halfy- thats the Rankin Bass version they decided to do to finish it off, but its also sort of a standalone film somehow, and Bakshi didnt have much if anything to do with this one far as I know. Its based on the Rankin Bass Hobbit film.}}
_________________
Pure Publications, The Tower of Lore and the Former Admin's Office are Reasonably Proud to Present-
A Green And Pleasant Land
Compiled and annotated by Eldy.
- get your copy here for a limited period- free*
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1yjYiz8nuL3LqJ-yP9crpDKu_BH-1LwJU/view
*Pure Publications reserves the right to track your usage of this publication, snoop on your home address, go through your bins and sell personal information on to the highest bidder.
Warning may contain Wholesome Tales[/b]
A Green And Pleasant Land
Compiled and annotated by Eldy.
- get your copy here for a limited period- free*
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1yjYiz8nuL3LqJ-yP9crpDKu_BH-1LwJU/view
*Pure Publications reserves the right to track your usage of this publication, snoop on your home address, go through your bins and sell personal information on to the highest bidder.
Warning may contain Wholesome Tales[/b]
the crabbit will suffer neither sleight of hand nor half-truths. - Forest
Pettytyrant101- Crabbitmeister
- Posts : 46837
Join date : 2011-02-14
Age : 53
Location : Scotshobbitland
Re: Ralph Bakshi version
It's not bad actually. Has some nice moments.
_________________
"The earth was rushing past like a river or a sea below him. Trees and water, and green grass, hurried away beneath. A great roar of wild animals rose as they rushed over the Zoological Gardens, mixed with a chattering of monkeys and a screaming of birds; but it died away in a moment behind them. And now there was nothing but the roofs of houses, sweeping along like a great torrent of stones and rocks. Chimney-pots fell, and tiles flew from the roofs..."
Forest Shepherd- The Honorable Lord Gets-Banned-a-lot of Forumshire
- Posts : 5632
Join date : 2013-11-02
Age : 33
Location : Minnesota
Page 9 of 9 • 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9
Similar topics
» Bakshi v PJ A Contest of Scripts
» LOTR 1978 version
» "The book version is lamer than the movies."
» "The Road goes ever on" or Bilbo's traveling song. A new version by Seventeen Sisters.
» Preparing Norc, no, Eldo for a life of college debauchery. Though it won't exactly be college; the grad school version of debauchery being far more refined.
» LOTR 1978 version
» "The book version is lamer than the movies."
» "The Road goes ever on" or Bilbo's traveling song. A new version by Seventeen Sisters.
» Preparing Norc, no, Eldo for a life of college debauchery. Though it won't exactly be college; the grad school version of debauchery being far more refined.
Page 9 of 9
Permissions in this forum:
You cannot reply to topics in this forum