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Post by malickfan Mon Jun 05, 2023 6:09 pm

halfwise wrote:Shogun is an amazing read, and I think it really woke up a lot of people to the complexity of Japanese history.  Some of the images still haunt me, though all to do with torture and death unfortunately.

Yeah the torture/death scenes were pretty graphic, I knew next to nothing about Japanese history of the period but the book has served as an interesting history lesson (as well a great story). Have you read any of the other books in the 'Asian Saga'?

Shogun reminded me at times of the films Silence and The Last Samurai (which are both well worth watching).

halfwise wrote:Netflix has a series about the rise of the Shoguns (Age of Sumarai).  When it comes to the brutality of clannish warfare Japan puts Europe to shame.  The book was no exaggeration.

There's a new adaptation of the book set to be released later this year

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sh%C5%8Dgun_(upcoming_TV_series)


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Post by halfwise Mon Jun 05, 2023 7:37 pm

Read King Rat, it was okay but doesn't have the wide sweep of Shogun since it's set completely in a prisoner's camp. I've seen Noble House on the bookshelf but never picked it up, and wasn't aware of the others. I'll have to look into that. The ones going back in history like Shogun would me most interesting.

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Post by halfwise Fri Jul 28, 2023 12:19 pm

Some time ago when we were discussing H Rider Haggard's She I realized my copy had disinstegrated.  So I went on search for a replacement and discovered that HRH had actually written four She novels!  There was an omnibus edition, so I bought it and have been spending the last few months working my way through it.  Here is my commentary with particular references to how Tolkien was likely influenced.

She - the first and still the best, as is often true of such series - as the first is not weighed down with baggage from the rest and is conceived as a free standing inspiration.

In it we not only find the obvious model of Galadriel with her mirror, but also the prattling servant, facsimiles of old documents,  mummification without bandages to sleep forever in stone caves, and even swamps with corpse lights!

But without the Tolkien references it's still a great book of itself, full of mystery and the exploration of power.  Look for the famous line "my empire is of the imagination" where Ayesha explains her method of ruling.

Ayesha - nope, she didn't die in the fire as we were led to believe; and her spirit flies to be plopped down in Nepal, where our heroes are led to rediscover her, led on by dreams.  Then we DO get the final death of Ayesha.  The whole thing is overwrought and not worth the read.  We DO see her reading minds like Galadriel, though she notes it down as long practice rather than some kind of ESP.  We also see her controlling storms and a volcano like Sauron.  Too much author worship of his created character.  Give it a miss.

She and Alan - as in Alan Quarterman, the hero of HRM's first successful book King Solomon's mines, as well as many of his others.  I think Haggard had realized the stylistic failure of his previous novel, and this time brings in a playful mood by way of his most familiar character.  Quarterman is the type of adventurer who wins by the spirit of not taking anything too seriously, and all his African friends - though they respect him - are also constantly poking fun at him.  All of this now encounters Ayesha, and the contrast between the near worship of the previous novel and the irreverence of this one makes for some fine comedy, but you have to at least read She first to pick up on this.

Alan is doggedly skeptical of Ayesha, taking her either for a charlatan or a cuckoo.  She's amused by this and respects his diffidence.  Though it doesn't have the over arching themes and mystery that make the first novel so great, it's worth reading.

Daughter of Wisdom - an autobiography, told in Ayesha's own voice.  Anyone who takes themselves too seriously makes a poor narrator, and the first few chapters of her younger life suffer from this.  Then the plot picks up and it becomes more interesting, but I still wouldn't bother with it unless you've become fascinated by the character.

It doesn't come into it's own until she finally bathes in the fire, and I think Tolkien may have learned something about shifting the style of language to match the greatness of events: HRM takes a high tone throughout this novel, and it suffers for it.  But the high tone rises strongly to the occasion when warranted: here is a sample describing her transformation into an immortal being, and I don't think you'll find better writing, for he matches Tolkien's description of  the Witch King at the Gates of Minas Tirith or the fall of Sauron here:


I stood in the pathway of the Fire.  It saw; it stretched out its arms to me.  Lo! it wrapped me round and in my ears I heard the shoutings of the stars.

Oh! What was this?  I did not burn.  The blood of the Gods flowed through my veins. The soul within me became as a lighted torch.  The Fire possessed me, I was the Fire's and in a dread communion the Fire was mine.  By that lit torch of my heart I saw many visions; veils rolled up before my eyes revealing glory ofter glory, glories that cannot be told.  Death shrank away from before my feet; pale and ashamed he shrank away.  Pain departed, weakness was done.  I stood the Queen of all things human.

He actually goes on for pages exploring her new state compared to her old life; all of it glorious stuff.

I'm convinced Tolkien read all four novels and learned much from their triumphs and failings.   I'd suggest definitely reading the first; for fun read the third.  Then in some bookstore if you come across it read the penultimate chapter of the last, starting a few pages in to read the transformation section in the middle.

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Post by Pettytyrant101 Sun Jul 30, 2023 4:22 am

{{ I have never read any of his works, but I am intrigued enough now Halfy that if I come across a copy in one my towns many dusty little second-hand bookshops I will grab a copy, well the first one anyway, and see where it goes from there. }}

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Post by Mrs Figg Sun Jul 30, 2023 11:56 am

I will hunt down a copy too, I recently watched the old film with Ursula Andress as She. It was pretty racially dodgy in parts.
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Post by halfwise Sun Jul 30, 2023 12:05 pm

I thought you already read it, Figgy. Are you deciding it's worth putting in your permanent collection then?

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Post by Forest Shepherd Sun Aug 06, 2023 10:28 pm

Hmm.. Well I have the first She, so I'll put that slightly higher in my to-read stack now.
Haggard is not what I would consider much of a linguist: his prose is more what you would call workman-like in King Solomon's Mines. He must improve over time.

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Post by halfwise Mon Aug 07, 2023 2:08 am

His writing in King Solomon's mines was that of a novice.  He's far more mature in She, goes over the top like an intermediate writer who's gotten a bit big for his britches in Ayesha, and briefly reaches crowning heights at the end of Wisdom's Daughter.  But only at the end, which is why I recommend sneaking a peak in a bookstore rather than buying the damn thing.

Based on She and Alan I hazard that his later Alan Quartermain novels are probably more worth reading than King Solomon's Mines.  But I haven't read them, so no sure thing.

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