Re: 'An Unexpected Journey' in theatres | SPOILER THREAD

[Eldorion]

It's a video game forum, not a LOTR forum, and they didn't mention having seen LOTR edits so I just made an assumption. Either way, it seems like even a lot of the positive reviews have significant reservations about the films. Not all of them, of course. I've seen plenty of people say they thought The Hobbit was as good or better than LOTR.

[Pettytyrant101]

I suppose if you are the sort of person who doesnt like Tolkien ( ) but did like all PJ's additions, and pretty much everything I disliked about his LotR's- then you would like TH- as its all those things multiplied out of control.

[Mrs Figg]

its not that bad. there are good bits and bad. its a mixed bag.

[Eldorion]

Honestly, after thinking about it for a few days, I have to stand by my original one sentence review ("It's not very good"). It's not very bad either, but it's sort of mediocre. The biggest problem is that The Hobbit never should have been three films. Even if they had gone with two films, it would have allowed a much more complete story that might have been able to stand on its own, and it would have rendered many of the pacing problems moot. Aside from that though, there's plenty more baffling stuff in there to criticize.

There are some good parts though, certainly. Glimpses of what the movie could have been.

It'll be interesting to see what I make of it now that expectations are irrelevant and I know what to expect, but I can't see my final rating being another more than okay to moderately good even in a best-case scenario.

[Pettytyrant101]

I have to admit to some amazment to some reactions, there is a thread on another forum entitled 'The evolution of PJ as a Tolkien purist'- my mind boggles how anyone could look at that version of TH and call it purist?
I can see how it could be enjoyed, people have different tasts and expectations, but not held up as an example of anything close to a purist version.

[halfwise]

where is that thread? I'm in the mood to be boggled. Also can't wait to see the reactions.

[Eldorion]

I knew without having seen it before that it would be on TORn.

http://newboards.theonering.net/forum/gforum/perl/gforum.cgi?post=543133

To their credit, everyone else in the thread seems to disagree with the OP.

[halfwise]

Actually, it looks like they are largely agreeing with him, just deviations in why they agree with him. Except for saying scenes are overblown into action scenes they never doubt that PJ was being more faithful to Tolkien in TH than LoTR, which from what I've read so far of the reviews is pretty mind boggling.

[MeikoElektra]

I've been listening to the soundtrack a lot and, apart from the Misty Mountains theme, there really isn't anything that is jumping out at me. The Edge of the Wild is almost John Williams-like in the first theme. I must say though, Misty Mountains is bloody perfect - it weirdly echoes all the different versions I've ever heard or made up.

But outside the MM theme, there really isn't much of substance. A few echoes of LotR themes plus some general ambient music - whereas LotR had a soundtrack that was just so rich. I think this might be partially down to the less epic nature of the tale, but also because a small story was spread over 3 films. I'd be struggling to come up with enough strong themes too.

I'm hoping Mirkwood gets its own theme that is notably different from both Shelob and Fangorn while still having elements. I guess Carrock could have its own theme, along with the Wood Elf kingdom and Esgaroth - but really those places just don't have the layers and layers of history and character that Lothlorien, Rivendell, Gondor, Rohan, Hobbiton, Minas Morgul and the like have, because they're not really covered in detail outside the Hobbit (and where the Hobbit tale was mentioned in other texts).

[Gandalf's Beard]

oh, God. You guys have high hopes I went straight to bed when I got home... but I will write something.. I am just sooo sleepy.
for now at least:

I don't know why I worried. I mean srlsy.. They added thing, yes, but it is mixed so beautifully into it, you hardly notice it. and so much of the original Tolkien dialogue is kept and text. Don't bother with 48fps, the normal one was just as good. And I thought there wasn't going to be any real plot, but there was some Bilbo finding himself etc. etc. I could list on one hand the changes they did, and they are few and you hardly notice them. oh, yeah, Lindir has a bigger role than expected. I guess Petty will find something to hold on to and complain an be crabbit about, but.. normal people will love it. Also, don't worry about Smaug, what we see of him in the trailer is about the same we see of him in the movie. (thank god). But he does look rather dark, but this may be just so we're gonna be extra wowed. There are hints of red... Radagast was actually a nice surprise, and I welcomed him the bunny sledge was freaking awesome, I want one. The way they incorporated him was very smoothly and it didn't really mess up the story line or anything. naah.. no need to worry as I said and enjoy it. I am seeing it again in 3D on friday so I'll give a more spoiler review then perhaps.

sorry to disappoint you without gifs and swearing, but I am way too tired and on the wrong laptop. Also this is a serious matter and needs a serious approach

A voice of Reason.

[MeikoElektra]

GB!!!!!

[Mrs Figg]

enthuse me GB enthuse me. I need enthusing.

[Gandalf's Beard]

The BEST part of The Hobbit: Saruman superciliously says of the quirky Forest Wizard Radagast "...mushrooms have addled his brain."
(And in another scene Gandalf passes his pipe to a distraught Radagast, who proceeds to take a big hit and visibly relax).

If you recall, in LotR Saruman says to Gandalf, "Your love of the halflings' leaf has clearly slowed your mind."

Saruman, the buzz-killer! I knew he was a Republican!!!

And kudos to Mr Jackson for making such positive references to pot and 'shrooms.' They are obviously positive references because Saruman, the Republican, turned out to be a villain.

[Gandalf's Beard]

Wow! You had a lot to say Eldo, and there is no way I can do it justice right now. I'm not seeing the CGI issues you are, but I will have to wait until I see it at a 48frame Imax theatre to see if I agree with you on that.

I'll also revisit your other points after a second viewing. As usual, your reasoning is sound and your detail is thorough, whether I concur completely or not.

Anyway, I'm only 2/3 of the way through this thread, ad will have to come back a bit later.

[halfwise]

Good Lord GB, what is your signature video gif all about?

[Garek the Guard]

Anyone know which kind of markers Steven Seagal uses to draw his hairline?

[Eldorion]

Christ, GB, that signature GIF is a little much, don't you think?

Anyway, I'm glad you came by the forum again. I appreciate you taking the time to read my overly long review, I'd love to hear what you think after seeing the film a second time. I'm curious to see how my own views will change after I see it again later this week (hopefully).

[David H]

Just home from seeing TH. It happened to be 3D but not HFR. Although there were some places where the 3D failed, overall I was surprised by how effective I thought it was. One of PJ's gifts is in the use of the camera, and it's clear how carefully he used 3D when he composed those shots. I'm not saying that it will save the movie if you have already seen it in 2D and hated it, but if you liked it a little bit in 2D I think you'll like it better in 3D (that's a recommendation particularly to you, Mrs Figg.)

I saw it with my brother who hadn't read the book in 30 years and an in-law who had just reread the book but hates 3D in principle. All three of us were overall quite pleased with the movie, including the fact that it gave us plenty to pick apart afterwards.

Riddles in the Dark seemed to me to capture not only many of the details and the tone I remember from the book, but more than that, you could tell from the reaction of the audience that worked as good cinema. That's a home run in my book!

I thought the party scene, the departure, and the Trollshaws worked just fine despite some changes and some false notes. The flashbacks were more problematic. I am trying to tell myself that this form of narration was a device to allow PJ not to force exposition into the party scene, but I haven't quite convinced myself....

Radagast and the Bunnies were jarring for me (sorry GB!). Maybe they should have been a cartoon before the movie?

The Wargs were OK. Better than in LotR. I wish they would have yipped and howled. The sounds of hunting wolves can make the hair on you neck stand! Even if the don't sing the fir tree song, I wish the wargs would have howled below the trees. It would have been much scarier and more haunted. (And by the way, they should have been fir trees with fir cones, NOT pine trees and pine cones! )

Of course I wish they omitted the first warg attack entirely and instead given us some more trekking. Maybe in the EE. And Azog.....well that's been covered enough I think.

But Goblin Town was just one false note after another. It made no sense at all. The majority of the structure should have been carved into the rock rather than balanced onto it in a loose collection of sticks like a bamboo scaffold. It was structurally impossible in so many ways that I was completely distracted and lost the flow of the story entirely. There had to be well over a hundred miles of rope lashing that stuff together, and ropemaking is a very specialized craft. Do hundreds of goblins spend their whole lives making fine ropes and packing forests of tree limbs into the mountains so they can build rickety bridges back and forth across the same chasm? And they must be very special ropes indeed, because some of the bridges had so little catenary curve to them that they had to be strung as taut as steel cable!!!! I could do a whole rant on the ridiculous engineering, but I'll stop now. Oh, but why does the Great Goblin speak fluent colloquial English??? Surely Goblin is his first language? Did he attend university at Dale or something??? I repeat, every single detail of Goblin Town is a false note for me.

Of course there's plenty to nitpick. That's part of the fun, but in the end I find that I'm still humming "Misty Mountains" and wanting to see it again. That says it all really.

[David H]

Oh, by the way, there's a shot of Smaug's leg just after he breaks through the door, and another as his tail disappears through the door, where he appears to be a golden bronze colour. I really hope so.

(Also for those who are interested, I'll need a better look to be sure, but if the Irish Elk were a Horse he might be a Dun. )

[Pettytyrant101]

The BEST part of The Hobbit: Saruman superciliously says of the quirky Forest Wizard Radagast "...mushrooms have addled his brain." Very Happy
(And in another scene Gandalf passes his pipe to a distraught Radagast, who proceeds to take a big hit and visibly relax). - GB

I was going to mention this. I did not like it. It made me very uncomfortable.
I have nothing aginast artists including their own beliefs or messages in their own work- but inserting a pro drug message into a film of someone elses work, and of somehing which is a film of a childrens book seemed out of place to me and inappropriate.

Welcome back GB!

Thats a failry positive review David- but seems clearer in general this time round compared to LotR's that more people seem to enjoy the Tolkien stuff more, the PJ invention less.

[Eldorion]

Good review David, I enjoyed reading it. I'm glad to hear from someone who enjoyed the film more! You raise some good points about Goblin Town, I think. Did you think the 3D did anything for that, though? PJ seems like a director well-suited for using 3D in big action set pieces.

Relatedly, from reading all the reviews on here (and I love that there are so many of them!) it seems like Azog is emerging as the least favorite part of The Hobbit, while the Misty Mountains song is probably our favorite. We'll have to wait for the Forumshire Awards to be in to say for sure, though!

[David H]

You raise some good points about Goblin Town, I think. Did you think the 3D did anything for that, though?

I think it does things both for and against it. I wasn't trying to evaluate shot by shot so this is just a general impression, but I think the 3D worked well to define the space of the "doorstep" cavern, failed in the slide/fall down the shaft, was helpful again as we crossed a stone bridge looking down from above and followed some narrow footpaths on the side of the cliffs. When Bilbo falls it's very dramatic in 3D but at the same time made me think "WTF! there's no way a hobbit could survive that!"

The depth and scale of the cavern were displayed well, I'm sure the 3D helped there, but any shot with the scaffolds and suspension bridges just highlighted the weakness and ridiculousness of it all. Some of the eagle soaring shots were brilliant in 3D, but I remember at least one where they were clearly CGI, moving in unison rather than soaring on different thermals. That's the big danger I think. It can make bad CGI really stand out.

Oh, I should say that I went in resigned to the knowledge that PJ would dangle everybody he could off a cliff. He can no more resist a good dangle than Petty can resist free buckie! He didn't disappoint, and it's even more dramatic in 3D!

BTW Did anybody else notice the similarity of the ledge that the burning pinetrees/firtrees were dangling over to the ship's-prow rock of Minas Tirith? Nothing like a good flaming dangle!

[Lorient Avandi]

Went and saw it yesterday. Have to say it was ok, here's my mini-review, though I believe Eldo just about hit the nail on the head with his.

Lets get into technology first- I thought that the character CGI (aside from Gollum) was absolutely awful, and completely unreal. My biggest peeve was with Azog and the Wargs which both looked so fake it made my eyes hurt at times. I thought it was odd that the Wargs looked so bad, considering how good (not accurate Petty) they look in TT and ROTK, even today. While there were many spots where you could tell green screen was used, it was ok for the most part. The several battle scenes were extremely fake, namely the Goblin Town and Moria ones. The costumes still shone though, aside from a couple dwarves such as Fili, and Kili.

Story wise- it was ok. Eldo is completely right in the fact that it can't stand alone. There wasn't too much added, and what was added (besides Azog) worked well. The prologue with Frodo and old Bilbo was a nice homage to LOTR, not completely necessary, but it worked. The Council was well done I thought, and will be nice to see in the coming movies. Overall, the movie was cut oddly, and seems to jump. My personal favorite parts of the movie were: up to the point Bilbo leaves Bag End, Rivendell, and the Game of Riddles.

changes from book- I absolutely HATED how Radagast was done. He was way too quirky and dumb. The whole deal with the Rabbits, while silly and fun to laugh at, was wholly unnecessary. I do not believe that he even needed to be in this film at all, possibly when they reach Mirkwood, but not this one. The Great Goblin was also rather stupid with how fat and disgusting he was. The fact that all the Orcs/Goblins spoke in orcish was just annoying. Other than those, I had several other peeves but nothing major.

Overall, as I said before, it was ok. Not great, but not terrible. For all its faults, there were times it could really shine. In comparison to LOTR, it was much worse in every way. They did do an overall better job at making the dwarves and Bilbo look smaller than Gandalf and the elves than I felt LOTR did though.

It was entertaining, but not truly great. I did feel that it was much better when seen with a very good looking girl who loves LOTR as opposed to by yourself.

[David H]

Hi Lorient,

There's no doubt that the date can make or break any movie!

What format did you see and what did you think? 2D? 3D? HFR?

[Lorient Avandi]

Ordinary 2D luckily. If it looked that fake in 2D, I can't imagine the HFR. I haven't bothered with 3D movies for awhile because they don't seem to add much. The non-CG stuff did look amazing though. There's no doubt New Zealand looks as great as ever.