Petty's Purist LotR Edits
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Re: Petty's Purist LotR Edits
by Pettytyrant101 Tue Jan 31, 2012 1:16 pm
Actually there is a reason I am keen on folk to get round to watching as soon as possible beyond personal satisfaction and ego (hard to belive I know)- currently nearly half a terabyte of my HD is taken up with the various bits of footage that make up the edits and I could do with the space- but if I delete it all then any tweaks I make based on suggestions would involve having to start from scratch again. I need to keep all the files until I am sure I have a finished product and I can't be sure of that until I have as much feedback from as many people as possible.
(And just to add an extra element of urgency for you Orwell if I dont free up the space I wont be able to edit all the footage for your video even once I have it all ready to go because I simply dont have the room)
(And just to add an extra element of urgency for you Orwell if I dont free up the space I wont be able to edit all the footage for your video even once I have it all ready to go because I simply dont have the room)
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Re: Petty's Purist LotR Edits
by Amarië Tue Jan 31, 2012 1:39 pm
Can I haz linkz? Gotta get that man of mine to see LOTR the way it should be.
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#amarieco
One does not simply woke into Mordor.
-Mrs Figg
"Everything we hear is an opinion, not a fact. Everything we see is a perspective, not the truth."
-Marcus Aurelius
#amarieco
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Re: Petty's Purist LotR Edits
by Pettytyrant101 Tue Jan 31, 2012 1:40 pm
Just pm me your email Amarie and I will hook you up with my skydrive so you can download it.
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Re: Petty's Purist LotR Edits
by Norc Tue Jan 31, 2012 3:16 pm
Pettytyrant101 wrote:Actually there is a reason I am keen on folk to get round to watching as soon as possible beyond personal satisfaction and ego (hard to belive I know)- currently nearly half a terabyte of my HD is taken up with the various bits of footage that make up the edits and I could do with the space- but if I delete it all then any tweaks I make based on suggestions would involve having to start from scratch again. I need to keep all the files until I am sure I have a finished product and I can't be sure of that until I have as much feedback from as many people as possible.
(And just to add an extra element of urgency for you Orwell if I dont free up the space I wont be able to edit all the footage for your video even once I have it all ready to go because I simply dont have the room)
get a new hardriver or something. u know a spare one u can plug and unplug
problem solved 
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Re: Petty's Purist LotR Edits
by Pettytyrant101 Sat Feb 04, 2012 12:37 am
After taking a break from it for a few days its back to uploading fun. 
Book 4 is in progress- if anyone is paying any attention!
{{{You get exempted from that unhappiness Kafria for being a diligent viewer. 
}}}
Book 4 is in progress- if anyone is paying any attention!
{{{You get exempted from that unhappiness Kafria for being a diligent viewer. }}}_________________
Pure Publications, The Tower of Lore and the Former Admin's Office are Reasonably Proud to Present-
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Re: Petty's Purist LotR Edits
by Orwell Sat Feb 04, 2012 3:17 am
Pettytyrant101 wrote:(And just to add an extra element of urgency for you Orwell if I dont free up the space I wont be able to edit all the footage for your video even once I have it all ready to go because I simply dont have the room)
Oh Sweet Illvataran battle-pumpkins... I better get right onto things!
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Re: Petty's Purist LotR Edits
by Orwell Sat Feb 04, 2012 3:19 am
Amarië wrote:Can I haz linkz? Gotta get that man of mine to see LOTR the way it should be.
Oh Amarie - surely you don't think of me that way already?
This Most Popular Male bizzo is becoming a (very pleasant) curse! 
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Re: Petty's Purist LotR Edits
by Orwell Sat Feb 04, 2012 3:20 am
Norc wrote:Get a new hardriver or something. u know a spare one u can plug and unplug
What a fantastic idea, Petty
(and a potentially great relief! ) _________________
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Re: Petty's Purist LotR Edits
by Pettytyrant101 Sat Feb 04, 2012 6:58 am
I would you know but I seem to have misplaced the keys to my sporran somewhere dont ya know...............
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Re: Petty's Purist LotR Edits
by Kafria Sat Feb 04, 2012 9:02 pm
Book2 now watched! 
Just have to start the mammoth task of downloading 3 and 4 now
So, thoughts......... (decided I better start using spoiler tags as some are still to watch and I don't want to influence them)
So has anyone else watched anymore? I'm curious about others thoughts too!
Just have to start the mammoth task of downloading 3 and 4 now
So, thoughts......... (decided I better start using spoiler tags as some are still to watch and I don't want to influence them)
- Spoiler:
I like the new cut of Gandalfs flashback, works really well and I really enjoyed my favourite tower swoop! I agree about the re insertion of the palantir, it does simply run better.
Rivendell runs smoother than the megaedit and I like the removal of the sillies, but I do have a few suggestions. (Yeah I know I may be contradicting other conversations again, sorry!)
I think the 'this is a dream' scene is entirely superflous. I would remove it as it doesn't tell you anything you don't get from the other scenes. In light of that I would do a re-order on the remaining scenes as follows
Cut straight to grave side from council, but leave this before Elrond and Aragorn talk about Arwen, instead go straight to Arwen and 'all that glitters is not gold' and the forging. Put the Elrond/Aragorn conversation next, leading to Bilbo and Frodo. Then the insert of Legolas down the steps, followed by Arwen and Aragorn.
Reasons, the Leoglas steps bit is clearly the morning before departing, the Bilbo/Frodo scene should go here to read as their farewell. Aragorn at the grave following his decision to go with Frodo is a natural sequel to the council (and the soundtrack here is quiet and shows a break as the steps scene currently does). It also gives the feeling of the sword being forged overnight ready for the quest. It would also still make Aragorns conversation with Arwen seem as if he has reflected on Elronds words. (and also would make Aragorns conversation with Galadriel more to the point, if the only conversation Arwen and Aragorn have had about her leaving is that last morning he really doesn't know her mind, he may believe she will come round to her fathers view).
Like everything from here on till the mine fight, although I really miss the wargs here (PJ really? what where you thinking?). It came home to me this time how much of Gandalf's abilities as Gandalf the Grey have been diminished in this film, no battle on weathertop, no fighting off the wargs, just getting trapped by Saruman and then being defeated by his first real enemy in the mines. I was surprised by your cut of the little bit from the stairs that you had last time, but only because I was expecting it from before. Again I think this is the better cut, it flows better.
You've cut more from the fight though I understand that this is to remove the over the top stuff, but I think you have lost the impact of Frodos near miss, it happened too quickly, and there was too little time to worry after as the troll was killed too quickly. This is different from the mega edit and the first edit I saw (I know cause after our last conversation about things being the same I have this time watched all three one after another.) The changes are only small, but for me they have lost something. We may just have to agree to disagree.
I think Lothlerien is a real triumph, the green filter is good (might occasionally be a little strong, but guess that is down to shading changes in the original footage!) and even gives hints at golden now and again. Gimli made me cry, something that has never happened before, but his feelings really hit home.
On second watch I still really like the edit of the breaking of the fellowship and interestingly, because I could just sit and enjoy it this time instead of be surprised by the changes, I found it told Aragorns tale much better. His concern for Frodo, his simple acceptance of Frodo's decision, his determination to give him the time to escape. Boromirs death has always reduced me to tears, but in this new edit it is for Aragorns pain and determination to remind Boromir he is noble, a part of Gondor. His picking up of Gimli and Legolas when it seems they have failed, all far better realised in this edit. I also really like that we no longer witness Sam struggling underwater or Frodo umming and ahhing about going back for him. (It also has to be said the cut on the soundtrack is masterful, even when I went back to listen for it I couldn't pick it out!)
Have just read this back and realised that I have been quite negative in some bits. Sorry!
I do really appreciate how much you have done, I think it is that double edged sword. I've become so used to you achieving fantastic things that I just keep wanting more.
So has anyone else watched anymore? I'm curious about others thoughts too!
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Re: Petty's Purist LotR Edits
by Orwell Sat Feb 04, 2012 10:15 pm
I have to apologise, Petty. I still haven't down loaded. It's not anything to do with my resistance I have to seeing what you've done, because I have no doubt your work will have been of high quality and discernment. I just can't face the movies at this moment in time. I've got such a set against them, that I grind my teeth every time I even think of them. Down the track I'll tackle them again (but your edits, never ther PJ's cuts again), as you know I really liked what you did last time and I'm sure this tme it'lll be even better.
Kafria, I admire your attention to detail, and even more your persistence in ploughing through the movies yet again, and it does appear Petty has (overall, if not in every detail in your opinion) improved them markedly yet again.
Kafria, I admire your attention to detail, and even more your persistence in ploughing through the movies yet again, and it does appear Petty has (overall, if not in every detail in your opinion) improved them markedly yet again.
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Re: Petty's Purist LotR Edits
by Pettytyrant101 Sat Feb 04, 2012 10:39 pm
No problem Orwell- better you watch it when your in the mood to than purely out of a sense of obligation.
Kafria- thankyou again for taking the time and effort to share your thoughts. Everythingis still in the editor so adjustments can still be made- I am going to try out your Rivendell cut and see it how it plays- when doing this edit I had thought myself of the value of keeping the scene you mention but didn't take the thought any further (out of laziness in truth as it was quicker and easier to follow the previous edits structure).
But heres a fuller response to your points also in spoilers-
Kafria- thankyou again for taking the time and effort to share your thoughts. Everythingis still in the editor so adjustments can still be made- I am going to try out your Rivendell cut and see it how it plays- when doing this edit I had thought myself of the value of keeping the scene you mention but didn't take the thought any further (out of laziness in truth as it was quicker and easier to follow the previous edits structure).
But heres a fuller response to your points also in spoilers-
- Spoiler:
- "It came home to me this time how much of Gandalf's abilities as Gandalf the Grey have been diminished in this film"-
Thats a good pooint and one I hadn't really considered until you mentioned it. And now I think about it its not just the big magic like the wargs its small stuff like lighting the wood on Caradhras too.
"You've cut more from the fight though"
Oddly enough the Frodo stuff is not cut save by one shot of the troll going round the pillar, as there seemed to much of that to me, the rest I cut was to remove the shots of a dangling Merry being swung about-I will have to watch that scene back again and see if it seems too brief now- but I really hate that whole dangling Merry thing!
"(might occasionally be a little strong, but guess that is down to shading changes in the original footage!)"
This is indeed a prolem withthe shading. The filter in this case replaces all the blues inthe original image, depending on how light or dark the original area of blue was you get strong or weaker green. If I lower the green amount any the blue starts to bleed back through, so I don't think there is much wiggle room to improve the filter much but I am glad overall you liked it as it transforms the mood of those scenes for me.
"I also really like that we no longer witness Sam struggling underwater or Frodo umming and ahhing about going back for him."
I always really disliked that scene in the orginal- coming on top of Bormoirs death its completely misplaced and slightly ludicrous. And yeah the music works well there, sometimes it just clicks together with only a little smoothing like that- other bits are altoghether trickier- trying to get the sound to join between cuts was one of the things I tried very hard to improve on- theres still a few could be better but overall I think its animprovement over previous ones.
"I have been quite negative in some bits. Sorry!"
Never a need to apologise Kafria and I am the one who should thankful to you for watching and commenting honestly- at the end of the day I will settle for what in my judgement works best but suggestions like your Rivendell one I will certainly try out and if its the one that works best then thats what goes in, so your comments, probably especially the negative ones, are invaluable in making them better.
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Re: Petty's Purist LotR Edits
by Pettytyrant101 Sun Feb 05, 2012 11:03 am
Kafria I could kiss you! So I will! 
(If you feel slightly woozy, start seeing double or pachyderms of a pink nature its just the buckie content of my body fluids- which makes me popular at parties!)
Just put together the Rivendell edit as you suggested and its a winner- you were quite right, pacing is much better- had a few problems getting from the very loud swelling music at the end of the forging scene into almost complete silence of the second half of the graveside conversation but think Ive got it sussed. Going to upload it to dailymotion and will post it here for your consideration and hopeful approval. (Although that will probably take hours!
)
(If you feel slightly woozy, start seeing double or pachyderms of a pink nature its just the buckie content of my body fluids- which makes me popular at parties!)Just put together the Rivendell edit as you suggested and its a winner- you were quite right, pacing is much better- had a few problems getting from the very loud swelling music at the end of the forging scene into almost complete silence of the second half of the graveside conversation but think Ive got it sussed. Going to upload it to dailymotion and will post it here for your consideration and hopeful approval. (Although that will probably take hours!
)_________________
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Re: Petty's Purist LotR Edits
by Pettytyrant101 Sun Feb 05, 2012 12:28 pm
Here we go- dont know how long it'll last before getting pulled.
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Re: Petty's Purist LotR Edits
by Pettytyrant101 Sun Feb 05, 2012 3:28 pm
Well that didn't take long to get pulled!!
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Re: Petty's Purist LotR Edits
by Kafria Sun Feb 05, 2012 5:30 pm
Not long at all it seems 
Oh well, glad to have helped a bit
Oh well, glad to have helped a bit
- Spoiler:
I agree about the bits you have cut with the troll, in themselves they are silly and they don't relate to Frodo, but they do serve to shorten the entire scene to a point where some of the drama is removed, I think.
I am only nitpicking, it has to be said
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Re: Petty's Purist LotR Edits
by Kafria Sun Feb 05, 2012 6:01 pm
BTW, I am struggling to download book3, managing with book4, but only when I selected the whole folder, not when I tried to do piece by piece, which works better normally
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Re: Petty's Purist LotR Edits
by Pettytyrant101 Sun Feb 05, 2012 6:09 pm
Mmm not sure why you'd be having problems with book 3 should be just the same. 
Book Four is still an upload in progress- will have more of it up overnight tonight.
Book Four is still an upload in progress- will have more of it up overnight tonight._________________
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Re: Petty's Purist LotR Edits
by Kafria Sun Feb 12, 2012 1:09 pm
OH MY!
Just watched book3 (download problems seem to be at my end, if the connection is too slow at the time it just doesn't start to download, unless I click on several as a zip download.)
so.. here goes
To anyone who is still faffing about all I can say is WATCH THESE! It is amazing how different the same footage can feel, what becomes the focus, just from the way it is put together. If nothing else I have found it a wonderful journey into understanding how I see this tale and these characters.
I know I've said it before, but it bears repeating - thankyou so much for sharing these Petty - They truly do bring great pleasure
Just watched book3 (download problems seem to be at my end, if the connection is too slow at the time it just doesn't start to download, unless I click on several as a zip download.)
so.. here goes
- Spoiler:
Love this. Don't know if I need to blame it on exhaustion, child being away or if it is simply the power of the cut you have put together, but this reduced me to tears several times.
The strange thing is, that watching the footage together it seems as if PJ understood the Rohirrim more than any other race on middle earth. Here he sees Eowyns cage, and her despair, the liferaft that Aragorn is to her and (in this cut), the pain Aragorn feels as he realises this.
You also see the similar, but distinct despair that is Theoden's. His belief that he has let his people down, by his enslavement, by his loss of his son and his lack of support for his niece and nephew, by his inability to protect his people or to feel he has really led them. When he gave his 'where is the horse and the rider?' bit I was gone, cried again at 'now for wrath' and at the toast in the hall for the fallen.
The order has changed from the megaedit version I found disjointed, that is all gone, it builds beautifully and painfully into the battle. The intercuts with the ents work really well here too, adding a sense of timescale that taking out the elves seem to lost for me last time.
I think that the highest praise for this is that I really can't remember the PJ cut, there are large chucks of this that feel as if I have always seen them in this version. I fact I have only three very minor points.
1 Gandalf flashback - I would be tempted to let the 'yes I fell' bit stay with the forest, then cut into the fall, but as I say it is a minor preference point
2 Arwen, my own cut would be at the bit where she is in tears looking straight to camera, but again, purely preference.
3 Finally, timescale... there are only two nights shown before Gandalf' 'fifth day'. Yeah I am being a pain here and I know it is the footage, but even if you assume that the day gandalf is speaking is day one and assume that the rest spent an extra night at Edoras prepping to leave you are still one night short. (I had the same problem with the theatrical version too, although it was less clear how many nights had passed with all the cutting around.)
And just a quick thought on the Arwen/Aragorn subtitles in book1 issue. Could you not just subtitle with 'speaks elvish' type thing?
To anyone who is still faffing about all I can say is WATCH THESE! It is amazing how different the same footage can feel, what becomes the focus, just from the way it is put together. If nothing else I have found it a wonderful journey into understanding how I see this tale and these characters.
I know I've said it before, but it bears repeating - thankyou so much for sharing these Petty - They truly do bring great pleasure
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Re: Petty's Purist LotR Edits
by Pettytyrant101 Sun Feb 12, 2012 1:37 pm
So glad you like this cut Kafria. Its great to have these films so I can watch them without feeling crabbit all the time, its even better to share them with others who then enjoy them, and any words of praise are a sweet icing on the cake. So thankyou again Kafria for watching, contributing and providing a little icing!
Of your minor points-
1. It is as a means to partially hide the sound transition from relative quiet as Gandalf speaks to the Balrog fall roaring and fiery stuff. I originally had all of Gandalfs dialogue over the Balrog footage- I may try that again and see if its better but I dont think I can get all the dialogue before the cut because of the aforesaid sound problem.
2. I shall have a look at that, that was an awkward cut to get so that may well work better.
3. I'm not sure there is a way round this without losing the entire sequence where Gandlaf says it and the coresponding Aragorn bit on the day. Its really picking between two evils, I could leave it out but PJ structures the drama around it making it tricky to do so without losing something cinematicly. However as you point out there are only 2 days in this cut, I choose what seemed the slightly lesser evil to leave it in and hope the viewer just assumes the journey takes 4 days but only 2 nights of that are shown- not ideal though.
On the Eowyn story I tried to preserve as much of the tradegy of it from the book- I have a dream that the Aragorn/warg scene was a late addition shoe horned in and therefore so too was the "They go with thee because they love thee. Because they would not be parted from thee' bit. And that it was originally shot for the departure at the Paths of the Dead and is stored away somewhere waiting on an anniversary edition super release- being able to restore that moment would cap the Eowyn story beautifully in this cut, as it does in the book.
I think I will leave the subtitles in Book 1- if I just put up a 'speaks elvish' sign it will have to remain the entire length of the elvish speaking bit to cover up the hardcoded subtitles.
And at the Aragorn/Arwen meeting the new subtitles there I hope offer some explanation for what happens at the river as I have Arwen saying "If I can reach the Ford the river will obey my fathers command." I always hated that PJ offers no explanation for what happens there beyond some asumption Arwens elvish words had something to do with it.
Of your minor points-
1. It is as a means to partially hide the sound transition from relative quiet as Gandalf speaks to the Balrog fall roaring and fiery stuff. I originally had all of Gandalfs dialogue over the Balrog footage- I may try that again and see if its better but I dont think I can get all the dialogue before the cut because of the aforesaid sound problem.
2. I shall have a look at that, that was an awkward cut to get so that may well work better.
3. I'm not sure there is a way round this without losing the entire sequence where Gandlaf says it and the coresponding Aragorn bit on the day. Its really picking between two evils, I could leave it out but PJ structures the drama around it making it tricky to do so without losing something cinematicly. However as you point out there are only 2 days in this cut, I choose what seemed the slightly lesser evil to leave it in and hope the viewer just assumes the journey takes 4 days but only 2 nights of that are shown- not ideal though.
On the Eowyn story I tried to preserve as much of the tradegy of it from the book- I have a dream that the Aragorn/warg scene was a late addition shoe horned in and therefore so too was the "They go with thee because they love thee. Because they would not be parted from thee' bit. And that it was originally shot for the departure at the Paths of the Dead and is stored away somewhere waiting on an anniversary edition super release- being able to restore that moment would cap the Eowyn story beautifully in this cut, as it does in the book.
I think I will leave the subtitles in Book 1- if I just put up a 'speaks elvish' sign it will have to remain the entire length of the elvish speaking bit to cover up the hardcoded subtitles.
And at the Aragorn/Arwen meeting the new subtitles there I hope offer some explanation for what happens at the river as I have Arwen saying "If I can reach the Ford the river will obey my fathers command." I always hated that PJ offers no explanation for what happens there beyond some asumption Arwens elvish words had something to do with it.
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Re: Petty's Purist LotR Edits
by Pettytyrant101 Mon Feb 13, 2012 11:16 am
Should have finished uploading book 4 last night but the damn thing signed me out at some point after I'd gone away and I came back to find it had cancelled the whole thing and not uploaded a single sodding bit!!! 
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Warning may contain Wholesome Tales[/b]
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Re: Petty's Purist LotR Edits
by Pettytyrant101 Sun Feb 19, 2012 11:40 pm
I've ran into a bit of a problem- the Skydrive isnt big enough- got about 4 parts of book 4 left over and still got the last two books to go up and not got the space- wonder if I can have two skydrives under different names but on the same ip address? Guess I will find out!
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Re: Petty's Purist LotR Edits
by halfwise Mon Feb 20, 2012 7:43 pm
So I haven't time to watch the edits, which means of course that's exactly what I'm doing. Just started, thought I'd put in a few notes and edit as I go along. Not sure how important the spoiler tags are, let's give it a try.
- Spoiler:
- Ha! it works. Wonder who came up with them?
Anyway, the edits definitely tighten things up, which may help theatrically but aren't so important when sitting around wanting to luxuriate in middle earth. Halfway through book 1, here's a few things before I go get some work done.
When Gandalf goes to read Isildur's notes in Minas Tirith, there is music that sounds like he's in a desperate hurry. This made sense in the original version where he runs out right after the party, but after you remind the audience 17 years have past, he's suddenly in a rush? Not sure there's much that can be done about that.
I was at first upset when it seemed you had almost totally done away with the prologue, but you've restored "shadow of the past". It really works to go from Hobbiton into the deep past, and return again. A definite improvement that I didn't realize was needed, as the prologue at the beginning to avoid breaking up the action seems logical.
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Re: Petty's Purist LotR Edits
by Pettytyrant101 Mon Feb 20, 2012 8:13 pm
Glad you're watching Halfwise.
- Spoiler:
- "A definite improvement that I didn't realize was needed, as the prologue at the beginning to avoid breaking up the action seems logical."- Halfwise
Indeed, so much so I was on my fith edit or something before it even occured to me to try it. My main problem with the prologue (in any adapted version not just PJ's) is it has no context. The viewer is bombarded with a lot of very impressive stuff, a bunch of names and important events but no real way of latching onto it never mind remembering it all.
Tolkien's way however is much cleverer- it directly relates everything to Frodo all the way back- and it starts with the grand and seemingly out of touch of the everyday person- its all Kings and big armies and huge battles- but it ends on the small and personal with Smeagol's demise into Gollum which drives the peril home so much better I think.
The effect for the viewer is to get sucked in more (is for me anyway) so that when Frodo reaches the moment where he tries to give Gandalf the Ring his pure terror at what he has in his possession is driven home to great dramatic effect and his choice to take on the burden all the more powerful for it.
Sadly I dont think there is anything I can do about the hurried pace of the Gandlaf/Isildur's letter scene- if I could somehow seperate out the sfx from the music I could replace the music with something less driven-that would help some. I will see what I can do.
Thanks again for watching.
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Warning may contain Wholesome Tales[/b]
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*Pure Publications reserves the right to track your usage of this publication, snoop on your home address, go through your bins and sell personal information on to the highest bidder.
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Re: Petty's Purist LotR Edits
by Orwell Tue Feb 21, 2012 5:13 am
- Spoiler:
- Tolkien's sequencing is impressive. It clearly works in a film - and beautifully! PJ did not trust his source to deliver a rip-snorting tale!This is where people who argue against an "as close as you can reasonably git it version" are wrong, Halfwise. The closer to Tolkien one could have got it, the better the movies would have been.
Does this mean you're not only a Purist, but a very clever Scotshobbit too, Petty?
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