A Song of Ice and Fire
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Re: A Song of Ice and Fire
by Bluebottle Fri Mar 28, 2014 10:39 pm
My favourite of the scenes above.
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Re: A Song of Ice and Fire
by Bluebottle Fri Mar 28, 2014 11:04 pm
I think the one thing I find myself reacting to a bit with Georges logic is this concept of age old houses dying out all the time. Let's take the Starks as an example, they had 6 children. And let's say all five of the trueborn ones married and had children, how many possible heirs to Winterfell wouldn't that leave.
And we're to believe that all these thousands of year old houses disappear when one or two people die? If that was the case they would have been dying out in every war since the dawn of time? In reality there would always at least be a distant cussin to take over the title of Lord. Unless Westeros has some strange laws of inheritance, it comes across as a bit strange to me.
And we're to believe that all these thousands of year old houses disappear when one or two people die? If that was the case they would have been dying out in every war since the dawn of time? In reality there would always at least be a distant cussin to take over the title of Lord. Unless Westeros has some strange laws of inheritance, it comes across as a bit strange to me.
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Re: A Song of Ice and Fire
by bungobaggins Fri Mar 28, 2014 11:24 pm
Is Game of Thrones basically a fantasy House of Cards?
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Re: A Song of Ice and Fire
by Bluebottle Fri Mar 28, 2014 11:49 pm
Well, part of it might be.
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Re: A Song of Ice and Fire
by halfwise Sat Mar 29, 2014 12:52 am
Bluebottle wrote:Eldorion wrote:I haven't seen much of season two, so could you say (maybe in spoilers) how it was different?
So I had a go and it became a bit of a ponderous tome, but here it goes..
There are of course a lot of differences betwen the series and the books and a lot of those are omissions. To simplify the story i n the series or for lack of time. Those I think are too many to mention, so I'll try to contain this to what I see as actual changes.
So in broad lines...
- Spoiler:
As for Renly and Stannis the whole Storms End situation is left out or only mentioned, and the shadow creature Mellisandre gives birth to kills Renly, not the castellan of Storms End, in his tent. They still row up to a cave and let the creature through some metal bars which has me wondering if they at some point planned on including the Storms End bit. Roberts bastard at Storms End is not mentioned or included.
Tyrions storyline is quite close to the one in the book, but both Shea and Bron are given larger roles. Bron is made the Lord commander of the city watch, leaving out Jacelyn. And Shea is Sansas handmaiden, not Lady Lollys Stokeworth. Shea also spends her time in the Red Keep not in a house in the city, as far as I remember. The whole Tommen situation is left out. And as far as I remember a lot of the details of the alliance with Dorne is left out.
As for Aria she spends her time at Harrenhall as Tywin cupbearer, not Boltons. I think this plays a large role in making Tywin a more relatable character, together woth Charles Dance performance, in the series than in the books. And they escape Harrenhal before the Northeners capture it. Which Roose Bolton and Rob Stark does together after it's been abandoned.
As for Bran and Rickon. The Iron Islanders capture Winterfell as in the book, but neither the Frey children or Jojen and Meera are present. There is no battle betwen the Northern lords in front of Winterfell and Ser Rodrik is killed by Theon after being captured by the iron islanders outside the castle. The castle is captured as the iron islanders turn on Theon leaving him to the Northerners outside the gate before fleeing. Bran and Rickon do not seperate at Winterfell but the whole group travel north together and meet Jojen and Meera on the way north.
The Daenerys stuff is quite close, but there was added some stuff about Xaro Xhoan Daxos aiding in the teft of the dragons, leading to the death of a good deal of the Dortraki and coming to a sticky end left locked in an empty vault beneath his house that he used as security for his fortune. (People obviously believing the vault was anything but empty.)
In the attack on Kings Landing Stannis attacks only with ships and there is no host on the other side of the river. His force is broken on the beach outside the walls of the Mud Gate while trying to break into the city. The Sansa bit from the battle in the book is followed quite closely, except for Shea now being her handmaiden.
That's what I've got at the moment at least, might have forgotten some things.
have to say, Blue, I'm very impressed by your memory both for the books and the show. I've read the books twice now (though the first time was 8 years ago) and I couldn't keep track of all that detail.
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Re: A Song of Ice and Fire
by halfwise Sat Mar 29, 2014 12:55 am
Mrs Figg wrote:
- Spoiler:
Oh, okay. I'll put it in spoilers.
- Spoiler:
- If Martin has a theme, it's that not everyone is all good or all bad. He doesn't have to explain it directly, but it's clear the Hound sees in Sansa perhaps the only pure thing in King's Landing, and he feels protective of her.
As for why she doesn't leave with him, she's obviously scared of him, for good reason.
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Re: A Song of Ice and Fire
by Eldorion Sat Mar 29, 2014 2:11 am
bungobaggins wrote:Is Game of Thrones basically a fantasy House of Cards?
It's much larger in scope (and cast ... oh god, the cast is huge). I suppose parts of it are reminiscent of House of Cards in terms of court intrigue, but there are other parts that are much more fantasy-esque. Battles and journeys and dragons and shit. The whole thing is loosely (very loosely) inspired by the Wars of the Roses if you're looking for an easy parallel.
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Re: A Song of Ice and Fire
by Radaghast Sat Mar 29, 2014 2:53 am
I'd say HoC is a non-fantasy version of GoT 
Oh wait, I forgot HoC was a BBC series first
Oh wait, I forgot HoC was a BBC series first
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Re: A Song of Ice and Fire
by Bluebottle Sat Mar 29, 2014 11:17 am
Eldorion wrote:bungobaggins wrote:Is Game of Thrones basically a fantasy House of Cards?
It's much larger in scope (and cast ... oh god, the cast is huge). I suppose parts of it are reminiscent of House of Cards in terms of court intrigue, but there are other parts that are much more fantasy-esque. Battles and journeys and dragons and shit. The whole thing is loosely (very loosely) inspired by the Wars of the Roses if you're looking for an easy parallel.
Yeah, that was the part I meant.
I guess part of the genius of Georges creation is that he realized a realistic fantasy world can be so complex it can have an entier series of House of Cards going on in the middle of it.
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“We're doomed,” he says, casually. “There's no question about that. But it's OK to be doomed because then you can just enjoy your life."
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Re: A Song of Ice and Fire
by Bluebottle Sat Mar 29, 2014 11:19 am
halfwise wrote:have to say, Blue, I'm very impressed by your memory both for the books and the show. I've read the books twice now (though the first time was 8 years ago) and I couldn't keep track of all that detail.
Watching the series back while I read probably helped.
But thank you, I do find the details and changes interesting.
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Re: A Song of Ice and Fire
by Mrs Figg Sat Mar 29, 2014 1:44 pm
halfwise wrote:Mrs Figg wrote:
- Spoiler:
Oh, okay. I'll put it in spoilers.
- Spoiler:
As for why she doesn't leave with him, she's obviously scared of him, for good reason.
- Spoiler:
- from what I have seen in the tv series the Hound is only brutal to his fellow men not the little Stark girls. He is rough but kind to Sansa and Arya and saved Sansas life from the mob. I dont know what he does in the books, would she have reason to fear him? Surely she should fear Geoffry 100 times more. He looks fair but acts foul whereas the Hound looks foul but acts fair--ish. I seem to remember in the book he comes to a bad end, but I hope they change this in the tv show, but I doubt it on past experience.
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Re: A Song of Ice and Fire
by Radaghast Sat Mar 29, 2014 2:19 pm
- Spoiler:
- I don't think the Hound is dead in the book.
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Re: A Song of Ice and Fire
by halfwise Sat Mar 29, 2014 2:46 pm
Mrs Figg wrote:halfwise wrote:Mrs Figg wrote:
- Spoiler:
Oh, okay. I'll put it in spoilers.
- Spoiler:
As for why she doesn't leave with him, she's obviously scared of him, for good reason.
- Spoiler:
- Spoiler:
- I think the prospect of traveling alone with the Hound would just scare anyone.
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Re: A Song of Ice and Fire
by Mrs Figg Sat Mar 29, 2014 5:46 pm
yeah I guess so. But I have a weird taste in men so I wouldnt mind a scary scar faced dude.
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Re: A Song of Ice and Fire
by halfwise Sat Mar 29, 2014 9:05 pm
Women. 
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Re: A Song of Ice and Fire
by halfwise Sat Mar 29, 2014 9:30 pm
If only you people wanted us just for our bodies, we'd at least have a fighting chance of knowing what was going on...
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Re: A Song of Ice and Fire
by halfwise Sun Mar 30, 2014 2:18 pm
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Re: A Song of Ice and Fire
by Bluebottle Sun Mar 30, 2014 4:02 pm
That was certainly a most enlightening conversation. 
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Re: A Song of Ice and Fire
by Bluebottle Sun Mar 30, 2014 8:15 pm
It seems I've gotten around to that episode. *gulp*
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Re: A Song of Ice and Fire
by Bluebottle Sun Mar 30, 2014 10:59 pm
Yeah, I have seen it before. 
Though I'm not sure knowing what happens helps too much in watching it. It's a pretty heartbreaking episode.
I'm rewatching the series as I'm going through book 3 at the moment. It's a bit of a happy coincidence it's just in time for series 4 as well.
Though I'm not sure knowing what happens helps too much in watching it. It's a pretty heartbreaking episode.I'm rewatching the series as I'm going through book 3 at the moment. It's a bit of a happy coincidence it's just in time for series 4 as well.
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“We're doomed,” he says, casually. “There's no question about that. But it's OK to be doomed because then you can just enjoy your life."
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Re: A Song of Ice and Fire
by Lancebloke Mon Mar 31, 2014 8:32 am
Okay... so I am about a third of the way through book 3, part 2 and
- Spoiler:
- does Mr Martin just have to kill everyone? Not sure why I bother liking any of the characters as it seems they just end up getting killed. Not sure if the wedding at the Twins is what everyone is talking about or if I have something else to look forward to?
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Re: A Song of Ice and Fire
by halfwise Mon Mar 31, 2014 1:19 pm
Early on in this thread I said it was a bad idea to fall in love with any of Martin's characters. Bad for a character, bad for a reader, and probably bad for Martin because that's part of where his impact comes from as a writer. You keep reading partly in fear he may kill off another one.
Hmm.... if halfway through book 3, who has he killed off aside from Ned and Sansa's dire wolf?
Hmm.... if halfway through book 3, who has he killed off aside from Ned and Sansa's dire wolf?
- Spoiler:
- if you haven't gotten to the wedding at the twins, let's just say, you ain't seen nothing yet.
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