continuing proofs America is wacko

I understand your point Halfwise , but I dont think registering guns that where bought prior to any future ban will make any difference .I am not paranoid but i will not disagree with you that there are gun owners who are .actually I know some and the more paranoid they get the less I want to associate myself with them . I think most gun owners dont feel its any of the federal governments business and they more concerned with an intrusion into theyre privacy more than anything . I have had the benefit of living in the city and living in a rural area , I was born in the south , lived in the north then moved back south to the Bible belt, I went to school in Metro Atlanta then as an adult moved to the country south of Atlanta , I have lived in areas of high crime and low crime . Here is what I have found from this experience . I was raised around firearms when I moved to the city my father told us not to be showing the kids in the neighborhood our guns , we later learned why , we looked at firearms as a hunting tool and for target shooting pleasure, but when the neighborhood kids found out we had them they where fascinated by them and constantly wanted to see them , this was forbidden by my father because he knew they would look at them as weapons and not tools and sooner or later there would be a problem.Its a cultural thing. Firearms are woven into rural culture like buttermilk and cornbread and 4 wheel drive trucks and Moonshine . I will say this myself and most sportsmen dont have a problem with banning High capacity clips , we dont need them and dont use them. As for assault rifles , if an armed intruder entered my home and I had to defend myself he would not be faced by an assault rifle ,, He would be looking at the business end of a High capacity pump shotgun loaded with #1 Buckshot, why because I have no intentions of missing when I shoot.

PS : dont tell Petty about the moonshine , if he gets his hands on some to mix with his Buckie the outcome could be very unpleasant .

yep, a shotgun is all anyone would need. Unfortunately city boys don't know what it sounds like to hear a shotgun barrel snap into locked position and may have to learn the hard way. A country boy upon hearing that sound would immediately sit down with hands in the air.

It's always the fringe that gives a position a bad name. I really wish the NRA would move off the fringe and take the reasonable positions you have.

{{{ unfortunately you didn't put your moonshine information in encryption brackets, so Petty now knows all about it, or soon will. Handy things, encryption brackets. }}}

Already reconsidering my entire position on guns Halfy. Noone told me about the moonshine.

halfwise wrote:Nobody comes knocking on your door saying they are planning to check for unregistered vehicles. I'm sorry, I just see so much paranoia among gun owners: the government simply doesn't have the manpower to do this kind of thing unless they have reason to worry there's serious stockpiling going on with less than peaceful intentions.

I do understand the fear that America could head the way of soviet Russia, but the vanguard of preventing that from happening is in exercising a vigilant democracy, not the ownership of guns.

Yes Ally, criminals will not use registered guns, but that's like saying vehicles need not be registered because criminals will not use registered get away cars. A law abiding citizen should have no fear about registering their gun. That same law abiding citizen will be more thoughtful in how they handle their vehicle because they know it can be tracked. Or in selling their gun to shady people.

The point is that if a lawfully abiding citizen registers their gun but criminals do not (as you admit) a register is not a viable method of gun control. Of course if this gun registration is actually just another tax like car registration which will help fund an alternative method that works, fair enough.

If people must register point of sale they are more likely to think about who they are selling to. That's an extremely viable method of gun control, though not of course all inclusive.

I don't think criminals just get their guns from the average gun-owner in the street. Making it harder for someone to sell guns to criminals isn't going to stop criminals using guns!

Any method of gun-control must start at making it harder for criminals and the mentally-ill, in fact everyone, to get hold of guns. In the UK, we did it by later outlawing some guns.

Drat, if Moonshine where to go Viral in Scottshobbitsland the outcome will be at the very least Scary , Imagine Scottshobbits brawling in the streets Kilts all askew ( EEwwww) Fighting over muskets & Moonshine enhanced Buckie. On another note we already have registration of new purchases and background searches in Georgia but they need to add mental illness background to that. I read that for the month of December gun backround checks with the FBI & ATF more than doubled in Georgia & Alabama , thats not sales mind you but inquiries for possible sale , Also if you are from not a resident of the state you cannot purchase a firearm in Georgia.

how do people buy guns if they don't live in arizona?

Ally wrote:I don't think criminals just get their guns from the average gun-owner in the street. Making it harder for someone to sell guns to criminals isn't going to stop criminals using guns!

Any method of gun-control must start at making it harder for criminals and the mentally-ill, in fact everyone, to get hold of guns. In the UK, we did it by later outlawing some guns.

Up until that second sentence of this very last post I thought you were against all forms of gun control, now I see you are just against forms of gun control that are too weak.

I am in almost total agreement with you Ally, but hardened criminals are captured because they usually have some pattern that the police can work on. It's the casual or new criminals that will be buying off the street and that registration will help restrict and trace. Some guns will disappear due to government buy-back programs, others via confiscation from criminals that are caught. It may take a couple generations, but eventually (assuming registration takes hold) all guns in the hands of law abiding citizens will be registered, making them much less likely to sell to people they shouldn't, and we will be left with untraceable guns in the hands of criminals only.

This will be an improvement over our present situation of nearly all guns being untraceable: only a fraction of all guns are in the hands of criminals, why should we continue to make it ridiculously easy for them to obtain untraceable guns? Right now you don't even have to know a criminal to get such a gun.

I dont know what to think. On the one hand if someone has broken into your house and you are quite sure thet are going to kill or hurt you and your family it would sure be nice to be a good marx man and shoot them all in the legs while the police finally come.
On the other hand my cousins from the area of Drumheller, Dellum had rifles and hand guns for hunting but seriously every time my uncle Miles and aunt would go into town my cousins would get out the rifles and shoot at targets . And then someone would come over from the next farm. some kid and they would shoot at us. And once a relative got angry and decided to shoot me and I had to run while my cousins held him back and I had to run and run and hide with the black angus bulls while he sat on a horse with the shot gun to kill me. I admit he was drunk, but if my aunt and uncle did not get back when theywere supposed to I might be dead. I dont know.

The UK started from a position of no gun laws and a lot of people armed (having a global Empire does that), in fact we still have stuff about today, like the lines on the floor of the House of Commons which make sure debaters are an arm length plus sword length away from one another to prevent 'aaccidents' in the heat of debate.
It might take a while, generations even to get to a point of no guns save for those who need them as tools, but it is possible.

geez Leelee, I have a hard time imagining anyone wanting to kill you, even if drunk.

You know this sort of thing doesnt really help the view outsiders have of American and guns.

Well some people are a little concerned about the government and tyrany and all that freedom fighting stuff. I can't live that way. Much too stressful.
Doesn't mean all gun owners feel that way.

Isnt the reason we have democacy, ballot boxes and the ability to change our government if we dont like it precisely so we dont have to do it at gunpoint?

Seems to me that those who hoard weapons in fear of their government are not exactly taking part in the democractic process.

I agree with you RA, I think Jones is going a little overboard and doesnt speak for all gun owners ,As for Morgan I dont agree with him but our constitution guarantees the right to free speech which he is excercising , I think alot of Americans think he is looking down on them as under-educated barbarians LOL . I was sent some interesting statistics on crime in Australia ,I would like to get them verified by Orwell to see if they are correct , I believe the man on the ground more than the media . A big part of the problem with people my age is they believe the Obama admin. is leading us down a road toward a communistic govt.they see more and more controling laws and intrusion of the govt. in theyre everyday life and with the dysfunctionality of our Government it doesnt help at all. The view Americans have about Tyranny and govt. control has not changed since The 1700s, thats something very hard to change and mis-trust has grown even more with the last three admins. Americans want America to stay the same ,they dont want to be like Europeans ( no offense ) I think they feel to much change would make them Un-American, Still there needs to be a change for the better and there is not a good solution on hand that everyone will agree with yet. Im hopefull though .

your correct Petty , but alot of people feel that theyre vote really doesnt mean anything and politicians here promise evrything and usually delliver nothing ,for goodness sake they cant even work together to settle economic and immigration problems . There is not alot of faith in our elected officials

Petty Is it correct that private ownership of gun was outlawed in Aussie

They are hoarding guns under the premise that our govt will eventually lose control. Thats not a fear that I have .

here is what I wanted Orwell to verify maybe he knows the copper who wrote it if its true . Here's a thought to warm some of your hearts....
From: Ed Chenel, A police officer in Australia:
Hi Yanks, I thought you all would like to see the real
Figures from Down Under.
It has now been 12 months since gun owners in Australia were forced by a new law to
Surrender 640,381 personal firearms to be destroyed by our own
Government, a program costing Australia taxpayers
More than $500 million dollars.
The first year results are now in:
Australia-wide, homicides are up 6.2 percent,
Australia-wide, assaults are up 9.6 percent;
Australia-wide, armed robberies are up 44 percent (yes, 44 Percent)!
In the state of Victoria
Alone, homicides with firearms are now up 300 percent. (Note that
While the law-abiding citizens turned them in, the criminals did not
And criminals still possess their guns!)
While figures over the previous 25 years showed a steady
Decrease in armed robbery with firearms, this has changed drastically
Upward in the past 12 months, since the criminals now are guaranteed
That their prey is unarmed.
There has also been a dramatic increase in break-ins and
Assaults of the elderly, while the resident is at home.
Australian politicians are at a loss to explain how public
Safety has decreased, after such monumental effort and expense was
Expended in 'successfully ridding Australian society of guns....' You
Won't see this on the American evening news or hear your governor or
Members of the State Assembly disseminating this information.
The Australian experience speaks for itself. Guns in the
Hands of honest citizens save lives and property and, yes, gun-control
Laws affect only the law-abiding citizens.
Take note Americans, before it's too late!
Will you be one of the sheeple to turn yours in?
WHY? You will need it.

'a lot of people feel that theyre vote really doesnt mean anything and politicians here promise evrything and usually delliver nothing'- truth

Then you change that as the people- by who you choose to vote for- are there no independents in American politics? I assume so. No one is forced into voting for the big two.
Or if people think they are not being listnd to stand yourself- saying your response is to arm yourself to the teeth against the govermnt just seems like an entire cop out on the democratic process which took centruries to win for the people.

'they believe the Obama admin. is leading us down a road toward a communistic govt'-Truth

I find it very hard to take comments form Americans like this seriously- its so ludicrous.
In the average European country Obama is RIGHT of centre- he's not even close to being a left wing social government.

Same with the hysterical response to the idea of a nationalised health service- death panels and goodness knows what other made up nonsense Ameicans were afraid of- there is a reason almost every developed country provides its people healthare, and even bigger reason even right wing parties dont stand on a platform of removing it- no one wants it removed and theyd never get elected if they did, dont you thin kthat indicates something about healthcare?- not having to worry about medical bills or if you can afford to protect and get treatment for your family, is amazingy a very good thing.


Petty Is it correct that private ownership of gun was outlawed in Aussie- Truth

You will need to ask Orwell about that- I dont know, sorry.
Its very illegal in Scotland- we have very strict laws on gun control and amazingly almost no gun crime at all- go figure.

I agree with you people believe to much of what the media says and then lets theyre minds jump to all sorts of idiotical conclusions , I was telling you this so you could understand the mindset of the common folk , not all mind you but a majority that I encounter . I have been preaching to people to write in canidates and make demands for changes in our Government structure like term limits for Senators and Reps , also banning the lobbiest . The lobbiest like The NRA and other groups are one of the biggest problems , the lobby breeds corruption IMO .

So to some extent the problem sounds educational.
From the outisde it often seems Americans are rather, well ignorant, of how other countries function and work and instead just believe crazy stuff like we have Death Panels- what kind of a people do Americans think we are where we would happily have death panels as our health service?

Its this sort of thing- and stuff like shouty man in the above video- that can make people outside of America think you are all a bunch of inward looking crazy people who just want to shoot stuff and shout "U. S. A."- fortunetly the Americans I have actually met in life and online dont seem to fall into that stereotype- but boy do you seem to strive to promote that image abroad.

I agree about lobbying- we have that here too though not quite to the extent of the US- but it seriously needs curbed even as it stands.

Right you are and thats exactly what I presumed people in other countries presumed about us , thats why I take anything I read from the mainstream media with a shaker full of salt. We are percieved to be like a bunch of Yosimete Sams , Or Jethro Bodines and most of that sterotype is created by mainstream media , just as european and other cultures are portrayed in a different light to us . The US media goes way beyond reporting the facts . IMO they are the tool of misdirection and deceit . Its funny how when common people sit down and talk , no matter what country they are from, they find things are totally different than what the media portrays them to be .

I dont want to be seen by people of other cultures as some Rambo type individual running round shooting everything that moves . How many Rambos have you seen lying in a hammock sipping a spiced rum and reading a Tolkien Novel. One of the biggest problem in America right now is most people could care less about the welfare of theyre fellow man and have no respect for each other ,thats a shame, and things wont change much till that changes .