"LOTR: The Rings of Power" - first teaser trailer

the fact that he knows about unfinished tales means he isn't just a movie fan.

I was surprised he didn't mention the fact that we have 'minorities' in LotR lore, we just don't focus on them. Thee is no reason why we couldn't expand on that part and invent characters where they fit in to the story. We can even stick it to the straight, white man if we go in to the colonisation of middle earth by Numenoreans. The lore allows for it but instead we get... this.

yeah. But I fear the misused multiracial cast will be among the least of the faults. It's but a harbinger or worse to come.

{{ Right there Lance is the bit I just cant get my head around.

I always thought they'd compress the timeline here and there (not all of it though!) and within that and the framework of the 2nd Age they have to work with you have from the Tale of Years-

Sauron first returning, as yet unknown about.
Numenor sending their first ships to ME and establishing friendly outposts there with the native men (who would be Mediterranean in appearance)
The whole forging of the rings bit.
The war of Sauron and the elves, destruction of Eregion, shutting of Moria.
Elrond retreats founding Rivendell.
Numenor defeats Sauron.
Numenor turning from friendly visitors into Colonial empire builders.
Appearance of the Nazgul.
Numenor take control of Umbar (who would look North African or possibly middle eastern or a mix of the two)
Civil war in Numenor.
Rise of Ar-Pharazon.
Capture of Sauron.
Seduction of the King.
Numenor tries to take the Undying Lands.
Establihmentof Gondor and Arnor.
Sauron returns to Mordor. Takes Minas Ithil.
Last Alliance is formed and Sauron defeated.

Now I see a hell of a lot of potential within that outline to show Numenor as peaceful new arrivals turning into empire building, their interactions with the Haradrim, the intermarriages that happened, the politics that happened between the two are there for the taking and inventing, without upsetting the established narrative, and even with the potential of genuinely complimenting it.

Throw in the Ring Wraiths and the potential to focus at least on the Witch King and Khamul as invented characters pre Rings, their acquiring of them and corruption by them are also open goals for exploring Easterling culture more. And if they were to bend and compress timelines I feel a better use would be to bring the Bue Wizards in early and on their own and send them into the East as the viewers characters to follow - that way you get wizards satisfying the Gandalf craving in the film fans, but different and new, and in a new place. Combine it with Khamuls character and you have a ready made antagonist for them to contend with.

It'd not be ideal but it would be preferable to what they are doing as it would be at least be fathomable as a choice to make. What they have chosen to do, given the potential with what is there to explore of lots of social/cultural themes, is unfathomable. And unfathomably lazy.
They were gifted a narrative full of places for people of colour and different races and cultures to appear that do not clash with anything already established or accepted.}}

they have FIVE flippin' seasons to work with. There's no reason for the major compression they are doing. We shouldn't be seeing Isildur until year 4 at the earliest. As Petty points out there's so much story to tell, and with the Elves and Sauron linking it all up, humans can each get an entire season, so viewers won't feel they are such flash in the pan type of material. You'd think with such a large group of writers they would have seen the obvious, but groupthink clearly took over.

{{ Its not even that hard to do, after season one and some humans have passed on and new folk will be on throne for season two- you have one of the many elf characters available- Elrond, Gil-Galad, Galadriel and plenty more who had met the former human lead king of Numenor in season one, starts season two when meeting new king by saying how they remember their father/grandfather, whatever the time gap needed is- you work it in. When its a character whose not a king whatever but a descendant of someone from before then they have the same house, or family name, or other indicator of their connection to the characters of season one. Then folk get whats going on, and dont feel like investing in the lost cast from last season was a waste of time, as they can immediately see it still has meaning in the story they are watching. I mean its basic story telling stuff really. }}

Eldy wrote:This would seem to suggest they're attempting the entire 3000-year arc of the Second Age, which ... I'm not entirely convinced is possible without a lot of timeline compression. But who fuckin' knows?

This is television, they probably could do it in a 60m TV-movie. Do it well however, completely different ball-park.

They've got 5 seasons to play with; pick 5 different events. Got several different approaches outlined in these last 3 pages and we're not even being paid. This ain't brain surgery.

Well, it might still be better than what some brain surgeons would come up with. If they did creative writing classes in college though, might be close.

'The Lord of the Rings: The Rings of Power showrunners JD Payne and Patrick McKaye admitted their show does not have a number of rights that depict events from the Second Age of The Lord of the Rings world.
“We have the rights solely to The Fellowship of the Ring, The Two Towers, The Return of the King, the appendices, and The Hobbit. And that is it. We do not have the rights to The Silmarillion, Unfinished Tales, The History of Middle-earth, or any of those other books.”

{{ Why would you even set out to make an adaptation of the 2nd Age if you dont have the rights to the bulk of the material concerning the 2nd Age? }}

$$$$$$$$$

{{ Way its going they are more likely to lose $$$$$$$! }}

If they don't have the rights they cant use anything from the Silmarilion without getting sued, so why pretend its LOTRs. Its made up shit.

Forest Shepherd wrote:$$$$$$$$$

more like ZZZZZZZZZ

Check out the Guardian today. Some guy calling fans right wing racists because we object to Black Elves and beardless Dwarves. The fight back from Amazon has started.

https://www.theguardian.com/film/2022/feb/20/lord-of-the-rings-amazon-series-race

lol, the Svartalfar existing in the Prose Edda totally means that the cast should be international!

Nice expert they bring in. A scholar working for, according to her own bio, Black Feminism and Afro-futurism. A woman whose most laudable work has been a book in which she combed through popular fantasy for black female characters, the lowest-level of analysis, and then complained when there weren't "enough" of them. Crazy how a literary tradition that comes from Europe features Europeans and are written from a European perspective. Crazy huh? No, actually terrible, the article claims.

People who claim Norse mythology as part of their identity are "violent fascists".
Norse Mythology is for everyone, the author says, and so it cannot belong to people of Nordic descent. They must give up any claim to it. And modern adaptations must be filled with non-white actors. Or else it's White Supremacy.

"European heritage" is in quotations in the article, as though the idea of such a thing is ironic or laughable. Funny how Afro-futurism, an inherently racially-exclusive narrative, isn't subjected to this kind of slander.

Fuck Michael Moorcock by the way. Of course the article quotes him. I mean I love his Elric series. But his debasement of LotR as Pooh-fantasy or whatever really rustles my jimmies.

Appealing to the authority of the Tolkien Estate? Oh you mean those now-distant descendants with the Dragon-sickness? Quote me some Christopher Tolkien, the last authority figure I trust in the Tolkien family, and we'll see how much he would approve of the Amazon series.

And then this lazy shit: "...given that race is an arbitrary construct anyway, it’s not somehow less authentic to cast Black actors than it is to cast white ones."
Oh, it doesn't matter anyway! Except when it does. As in Afro-futurism, and when you're specifically casting non-white actors. Funny how that works.

This scholar then adds that she has been in the US for many generations, and demands representation. Tolkien wasn't American, lady, and his characters were not African-American. Changing that now is twisting of his work.

I'm so tired of this double standard being presented as correct. It makes me so biased and puts my back against the wall so much. But there really is a cultural movement under-way to defame and knock anything "white" off its position of veneration. Go venerate your own culture. It's not a zero-sum game you fucking hacks.


Bloody website. I clicked-through onto this article: https://www.theguardian.com/tv-and-radio/2019/dec/20/lord-of-the-rings-must-avoid-face-ism

What is wrong with people, that they can believe socialization is responsible for every single thing about a person? Do they not understand that they are putting the horse before the cart? The result before the motivation?

We find scarred and mutilated people unlovely because of inherent biological imperatives. You'll never win that fight. Maybe for a while you can convince someone that ugly is beautiful, but the next generation will go back to preferring the healthy and un-marred.

he did lean a bit far: I wish he would have drawn a line between those who may in fact be harboring racism, and those who wish Amazon had worked harder to bring a diverse cast in by using material Tolkien provided, hence preserving the sense of a fuller reality.

I think there's no doubt that there ARE some racists making the same complaints, but they will use the same arguments, so it's hard to separate them. So be it. A thief and I take the same subway to reach the same location with different objectives; that doesn't besmirch the subway.

I certainly will not deny that many who complain simply don't want to see any black people in LotR for racist reasons. I've seen plenty of that.
But of course, that does not mean that people like the author of the article linked above are correct. The story is not corrupted by the views pr interpretations of the audience. Turning Tolkien's work into a cultural battleground is terrible for everyone involved.



(The thumbnail is click-bait, but I thought the commentary level-headed.)

Amazon brought out a 'superfan' panel, which I think has now been hidden on their website, but it had 4 mixed race/gender fluid people to discuss the trailer. oh dear. There was a British Black/Asian guy who actually had the brass neck to say that he 'didn't have any people of colour on TV or film when he was growing up'. Well hello! what about the multi-billion dollar Bollywood TV and film industry, which has dvds and videos in every corner shop in every street in Britain when he was 'growing up'.

I thought the commentator started with one point, then switched to another, Forest. He started by saying stuff from the Silmarillion couldn't be adapted because it's too ethereal, or too epic. I agree that's true for anything involving the Valar, but definitely not the second age. The Valar are basically taking a hands-off approach by this point, so it can be done.

Then he switched into his main point, which is the dissension created by changing something that people already love. He's absolutely right that it's stupid. In fact it's such an obvious point that it should be converted into a standup comedy bit to mock Amazon.

Yeah that's going to be my main stance from here on out. I don't want to get into the weeds with people over racial quotas/representation. So I'm just going to say, "Hey, people loved these stories as they were. Changing that will please some, but will create fractures and dissent amongst the fans that will amount to a net loss in good. It's just not worth it."

{{ Amazons superfan panel. I assume its a joke? I mean the cringe and stupid is so strong with this one its surely  parody? Right? Im a superfan- invite me on!!! }}

Well, it does represent the kind of surface-level uncomfortable nerd-banter that goes on at your typical watch-party amongst movie-only-fans. Lots of movie-quotes, very little in-depth discussion.

good lord, talk about trying too hard. Couldn't watch much, it was too cringy. How much did they pay them for this?

{{ I got the browser add-on that lets you see the dislike vote again on youtube vids, and oh boy I think I know why Amazon delisted that 'superfan' joke of a vid now! }}