All New Who

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Post by Mrs Figg Wed Oct 19, 2022 10:54 pm

Pettytyrant101 wrote:{{ By punish I mean restrict their rights or make transitioning punishing - the current method in the Uk for officialy transitioning is unfair, intrusive mentaly and physically, patronising, takes far too long and requires all sorts of personal information that has nothing to do with transitioning. Which is why the Scottish government is changing the law here to make it less punishing to anyone who wants to transition. You oppose that law change, therefore you are in favour of continuing the current, punishing, system even though that law makes no changes to womens rights or their spaces, as verified by an independent cross party committee.}}

Do you have proof it is unfair, intrusive, mentally and physically? The Scottish government has caved in to the trans activists and have betrayed women's safety. its batshit crazy. JKR is right.
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Post by Pettytyrant101 Wed Oct 19, 2022 11:16 pm

{{ yes there proofit was unfair, the law was created after a long consultation peroid asking those who have gone through the legal process and seeing what was wrong with it and how it could be improved, the main issue was the intrusivness of the medical side and the need to somehow 'prove' you had gender dystopia.
Id love to know why its a betrayal of womens safety when the independent committee tasked with scrutinising the legisalation found it did not alter womens rights at all or change rules around  bathrooms or women only areas. Whats the proof changing the legal process for how someone is recognised as trans in law infringes on womens safety?

This is from the Scottish Parliament Committees Report (not the SNP)-

'The Bill does not make changes to public policy or to the 2010 Equality Act, which includes a number of exceptions which allow for trans people to be excluded when this is a proportionate means of achieving a legitimate aim.
The Equality Act 2010 makes it generally unlawful to discriminate against people who have a “protected characteristic”, as defined under the Act. These protected characteristics include both “sex” and “gender reassignment”. The protected characteristic of gender reassignment is not restricted to those with a Gender Recognition Certificate or who have undergone any specific treatment or surgery. The Equality Act is discussed in further detail in this report at paragraphs 404-473.
The Scottish Government has stated that this means single-sex services are protected as are single-sex employment rights and health services. The Scottish Government has also stated that it supports these exceptions and that the Bill does not make any changes to these.'

On top of that- 'It will also be a criminal offence to make a false statutory declaration or false application. A person who commits such an offence is liable to imprisonment for up to two years.'

Making sure women are protected and their rights not infringed is presicely why the Bill has taken so long and been going through a huge amount of scrutiny, and the SNP have twice choosen not to proceed with it in order to make sure it doesnt harm anyones rights. The Bill is currently still at Stage 1 of 3 stages necessary for it to pass into law- so basically its still in the consultation process. The SNP in fact put it out to general public consulation, inviting members of the public to voice their views-

'Views on whether to reform the Gender Recognition Act 2004 are highly polarised. This led the Scottish Government to delay reform after its first consultation in 2017, despite a majority of the 15,697 respondents supporting the proposals.'

If the SNP didnt care about womens rights they would not have delayed their bill to make sure it doesnt harm womens rights when they had the support they needed to proceed as was.

So given all this, how does this endanger women or reduce their safety? It makes no changes to the exisitng equality laws, it makes no changes to womens spaces like bathrooms or refuge or health facilities.}}

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Post by Mrs Figg Thu Oct 20, 2022 12:02 am

Pettytyrant101 wrote:{{ By punish I mean restrict their rights or make transitioning punishing - the current method in the Uk for officialy transitioning is unfair, intrusive mentaly and physically, patronising, takes far too long and requires all sorts of personal information that has nothing to do with transitioning. Which is why the Scottish government is changing the law here to make it less punishing to anyone who wants to transition. You oppose that law change, therefore you are in favour of continuing the current, punishing, system even though that law makes no changes to womens rights or their spaces, as verified by an independent cross party committee.}}

The Scottish government on this occasion, are barking mad.



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Post by Pettytyrant101 Thu Oct 20, 2022 12:09 am

{{ So you say, yet you appear unable to say why or to address anything in the above post that clearly shows it makes no changes to womens rights or spaces whatsoever. Have you even read the bill? Or the consultation process? Or the committee reports? I am seriously doubting it at this point. }}

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Post by Mrs Figg Thu Oct 20, 2022 10:14 am

where reality hits the Koolaid.

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Post by Pettytyrant101 Fri Oct 21, 2022 3:57 pm

{{typical- stick a vid up that takes an hour to watch, two to research and probably an hour to pull apart, and boy theres a lot to pull apart here, just as Im onto my nightshift- not to fear though rebuttal there shall be when Im back off and have the time it properly deserves- but as thats unlikely to be before Sunday as Im working till then, and we will have Who to dissect on Sunday, I will put the response to the above on the BBST, where it properly belongs anyway, in due course. }}

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Post by halfwise Fri Oct 21, 2022 4:01 pm

There is a difference between self-ID of legitimate transexuals and those who would take advantage of self-ID for personal gain: either for a lark or nefarious purposes. It's important to separate the conversation.

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Post by Pettytyrant101 Fri Oct 21, 2022 5:49 pm

{{ like the majority of laws it depends upon deterents- in this case a false claim would land you 2 years jail time on top of any offense that may have been committed whilst under the false claim.
Under the current 2010 law on gender identity passed at Westminster you cant self ID, you have to go through an intrusive, burocratic and questionable process to medically prove you have gender dystophia. The SNP proposal removes this criteria - what some call self-ID'ing - on the basis someone who wants to transition knows they do and shouldnt have to somehow prove it to the authorities by going through a degrading process.
Its still not a short process, you cant just decide on a whim today youll be a she legally, theres still steps, just not so many and not so intrusive.
And seems to me to still be a lot, dressing as a woman, living as one for a required period of time, getting all your documents and private stuff changed from one gender to another just to creep on women seems pretty unlikely to me, frankly there are far easier ways to abuse women if youre a physically stronger man than going through all that.}}

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Post by halfwise Fri Oct 21, 2022 7:03 pm

So long as the "self ID" can't just be done on personal whim of the moment and there's some record process, then it sounds pretty safe to me. It seems some real thought has gone into this.

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Post by Pettytyrant101 Fri Oct 21, 2022 7:37 pm

{{ the proposals (as I mentioned above the SNP plan is not yet law and is still at stage 1 of the necessary 3 stages needed to become law) state that -

'applications would be made to the Registrar General for Scotland instead of the Gender Recognition Panel, a UK tribunal'

This is just common sense to streamline the paperwork side of it, in Scotland the Registar General does all birth, deaths and marriage records, so putting it through this rather than the long winded process and higher applicant numbers of a UK body makes perfect sense. And this would be necessary in any case as the new rules would only apply in Scotland.

'applicants do not need to submit a medical diagnosis and evidence to support the application (as current process needs)'

This removes the part of the process most disliked by transfolk, as its intrusive and odd you have to 'prove' you feel a different gender as a medical condition, for which there is not even medical consensus on how it should be done. The decison to do so is basedon the findings of the World Health Organisation- 'The World Health Organisation’s revised International Classification of Diseases, approved in 2019, redefined gender identity related health, removing it from a list of “mental and behavioural disorders”. They took this step to reflect evidence that trans‑related identities are not conditions of mental ill health, and classifying them that way can cause distress.'

'applicants would make a statutory declaration that they have lived in the acquired gender for at least three months and that they intend to live permanently in their acquired gender.'

This is pretty self explanatory.
A statutory declaration is defined in law as 'a formal statement made affirming that something is true to the best knowledge of the person making the declaration. It has to be signed in the presence of a solicitor, commissioner for oaths or notary public.' They are used for many things such changing your name, by banks when they need to transfer money to the executor of a will after someone dies, or declarations of marriage status, nationality and identity when no records are otherwise available, among other things.

'the application would then be determined by the Registrar General after a three month reflection period if the applicant confirms they want to proceed'

This gives a total minimum time someone could legally change their gender in of 6 months, though in practise most trans folk have been living as another gender for longer than the three months required prior to applying.

'applicants would either be the subject of an entry in a birth or adoption record kept by the Registrar General, or be ordinarily resident in Scotland'

Another self evident one- just making sure the Law can confirm who you are and you are a legal resident.

'the minimum age of applicants would be 16'

This is a reduction from 18 but brings it in line with many other things you are allowed to do in Scotland at 16, such as get married, vote, or join the armed forces.

'the Registrar General would be required to report annually on the operation of the process'

This is so MSP's in the Scottiosh Parliament and its various committees that keep an eye on how legislation is doing can monitor how it is functioning and that is doing what was intended.

This bill has taken years to get to this stage and its still in consulation, the notion the SNPO are focing it through or driving ahead regardless of other views is therefore clearly a nonsense. It also has cross party support in the Scottish Parliament, with only the Tories (of course)  opposing it, but theres hardly any of them in Scotland anyway.
So yes, I would say with 5 years of consultation and planning so far real thought has gone into it. }}


Last edited by Pettytyrant101 on Fri Oct 21, 2022 7:54 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Post by Pettytyrant101 Fri Oct 21, 2022 7:46 pm

{{ I should add what the bill doesnt do! }}

'The Bill does not make changes to processes for data collection. Trans people have already been able to change their legal gender since the 2004 Act came into force and the Bill is about improving the application process.

Refuges and shelters for the victims of domestic violence and sexual assault provide essential support to women leaving unsafe situations. Many refuges already support trans women escaping abuse – most domestic violence services in Scotland have been doing this for the last 10 years.
Exceptions under the Equality Act 2010 specifically allow communal accommodation and other single sex services to exclude trans people. The Act’s Explanatory Notes give an example of a group counselling session for female victims of sexual assault.
The Scottish Government supports those exceptions and the Bill does not change them.

The Bill does not make changes to toilets and changing rooms.

The Bill makes no changes in public policy including schools.

Legal gender recognition and clinical decisions about gender identity healthcare are separate issues.
A gender recognition certificate is not required in order to access gender identity healthcare. There has never been a requirement for someone to have undergone surgery or any other medical treatment to have legal gender recognition nor is there under the Bill.

Crime recording for operational purposes is a matter for the respective body, be that Police Scotland, the Crown Office and Procurator Fiscal Service or the Scottish Courts and Tribunal Service.
Police Scotland have explained that their approach to recording of crime remains what it has always been: they routinely record gender of individuals based on how they present.
The Bill does not involve changes to how Police Scotland or other bodies record or report crimes in Scotland.

The Scottish Prison Service makes decisions on the most appropriate location to accommodate transgender people in our prisons on an individual basis after careful consideration of all relevant factors, including the risks to and from the prisoner. Those are operational decisions.
Obtaining a Gender Recognition Certificate does not automatically provide access to specific accommodation.

Sports governing bodies set their own rules for participation of trans people, under the Equality Act 2010. This will not change under the Bill. The Bill makes no changes to rules for women’s sport whether professional, amateur or in schools.

There will be no change for those living outside Scotland. Applicants will need to have a Scottish birth register entry or be ordinarily resident in Scotland to apply. Being ordinarily resident in Scotland means that you live here on a settled basis, lawfully and voluntarily.'

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Post by Mrs Figg Fri Oct 21, 2022 11:47 pm

Pettytyrant101 wrote:{{ and boy theres a lot to pull apart here }}

nope, there really isn't. Surprised
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Post by Pettytyrant101 Sat Oct 22, 2022 7:19 pm


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Post by Mrs Figg Sat Oct 22, 2022 9:03 pm

When is this nonsense on?
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Post by Pettytyrant101 Sat Oct 22, 2022 9:45 pm

{{ Tomorrow- 7.30pm till 9.00 Im still really annoyed they have given Chibnall a 90 minute special to bow out on and wouldnt even give Moffat that for the 50th or RTD that for any of the 10th Doctor specials. If there is one writer and one Doctor that doesnt deserve this its this lot! Mad Just drags out the wait for the happy moment when they both piss off. }}

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Post by Mrs Figg Sun Oct 23, 2022 12:44 am

At least its sayonara to the fake Doctor.

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