All New Who

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Post by Mrs Figg Wed Oct 19, 2022 10:54 pm

Pettytyrant101 wrote:{{ By punish I mean restrict their rights or make transitioning punishing - the current method in the Uk for officialy transitioning is unfair, intrusive mentaly and physically, patronising, takes far too long and requires all sorts of personal information that has nothing to do with transitioning. Which is why the Scottish government is changing the law here to make it less punishing to anyone who wants to transition. You oppose that law change, therefore you are in favour of continuing the current, punishing, system even though that law makes no changes to womens rights or their spaces, as verified by an independent cross party committee.}}

Do you have proof it is unfair, intrusive, mentally and physically? The Scottish government has caved in to the trans activists and have betrayed women's safety. its batshit crazy. JKR is right.
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Post by Pettytyrant101 Wed Oct 19, 2022 11:16 pm

{{ yes there proofit was unfair, the law was created after a long consultation peroid asking those who have gone through the legal process and seeing what was wrong with it and how it could be improved, the main issue was the intrusivness of the medical side and the need to somehow 'prove' you had gender dystopia.
Id love to know why its a betrayal of womens safety when the independent committee tasked with scrutinising the legisalation found it did not alter womens rights at all or change rules around  bathrooms or women only areas. Whats the proof changing the legal process for how someone is recognised as trans in law infringes on womens safety?

This is from the Scottish Parliament Committees Report (not the SNP)-

'The Bill does not make changes to public policy or to the 2010 Equality Act, which includes a number of exceptions which allow for trans people to be excluded when this is a proportionate means of achieving a legitimate aim.
The Equality Act 2010 makes it generally unlawful to discriminate against people who have a “protected characteristic”, as defined under the Act. These protected characteristics include both “sex” and “gender reassignment”. The protected characteristic of gender reassignment is not restricted to those with a Gender Recognition Certificate or who have undergone any specific treatment or surgery. The Equality Act is discussed in further detail in this report at paragraphs 404-473.
The Scottish Government has stated that this means single-sex services are protected as are single-sex employment rights and health services. The Scottish Government has also stated that it supports these exceptions and that the Bill does not make any changes to these.'

On top of that- 'It will also be a criminal offence to make a false statutory declaration or false application. A person who commits such an offence is liable to imprisonment for up to two years.'

Making sure women are protected and their rights not infringed is presicely why the Bill has taken so long and been going through a huge amount of scrutiny, and the SNP have twice choosen not to proceed with it in order to make sure it doesnt harm anyones rights. The Bill is currently still at Stage 1 of 3 stages necessary for it to pass into law- so basically its still in the consultation process. The SNP in fact put it out to general public consulation, inviting members of the public to voice their views-

'Views on whether to reform the Gender Recognition Act 2004 are highly polarised. This led the Scottish Government to delay reform after its first consultation in 2017, despite a majority of the 15,697 respondents supporting the proposals.'

If the SNP didnt care about womens rights they would not have delayed their bill to make sure it doesnt harm womens rights when they had the support they needed to proceed as was.

So given all this, how does this endanger women or reduce their safety? It makes no changes to the exisitng equality laws, it makes no changes to womens spaces like bathrooms or refuge or health facilities.}}

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Post by Mrs Figg Thu Oct 20, 2022 12:02 am

Pettytyrant101 wrote:{{ By punish I mean restrict their rights or make transitioning punishing - the current method in the Uk for officialy transitioning is unfair, intrusive mentaly and physically, patronising, takes far too long and requires all sorts of personal information that has nothing to do with transitioning. Which is why the Scottish government is changing the law here to make it less punishing to anyone who wants to transition. You oppose that law change, therefore you are in favour of continuing the current, punishing, system even though that law makes no changes to womens rights or their spaces, as verified by an independent cross party committee.}}

The Scottish government on this occasion, are barking mad.



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Post by Pettytyrant101 Thu Oct 20, 2022 12:09 am

{{ So you say, yet you appear unable to say why or to address anything in the above post that clearly shows it makes no changes to womens rights or spaces whatsoever. Have you even read the bill? Or the consultation process? Or the committee reports? I am seriously doubting it at this point. }}

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Post by Mrs Figg Thu Oct 20, 2022 10:14 am

where reality hits the Koolaid.

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Post by Pettytyrant101 Fri Oct 21, 2022 3:57 pm

{{typical- stick a vid up that takes an hour to watch, two to research and probably an hour to pull apart, and boy theres a lot to pull apart here, just as Im onto my nightshift- not to fear though rebuttal there shall be when Im back off and have the time it properly deserves- but as thats unlikely to be before Sunday as Im working till then, and we will have Who to dissect on Sunday, I will put the response to the above on the BBST, where it properly belongs anyway, in due course. }}

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Post by halfwise Fri Oct 21, 2022 4:01 pm

There is a difference between self-ID of legitimate transexuals and those who would take advantage of self-ID for personal gain: either for a lark or nefarious purposes. It's important to separate the conversation.

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Post by Pettytyrant101 Fri Oct 21, 2022 5:49 pm

{{ like the majority of laws it depends upon deterents- in this case a false claim would land you 2 years jail time on top of any offense that may have been committed whilst under the false claim.
Under the current 2010 law on gender identity passed at Westminster you cant self ID, you have to go through an intrusive, burocratic and questionable process to medically prove you have gender dystophia. The SNP proposal removes this criteria - what some call self-ID'ing - on the basis someone who wants to transition knows they do and shouldnt have to somehow prove it to the authorities by going through a degrading process.
Its still not a short process, you cant just decide on a whim today youll be a she legally, theres still steps, just not so many and not so intrusive.
And seems to me to still be a lot, dressing as a woman, living as one for a required period of time, getting all your documents and private stuff changed from one gender to another just to creep on women seems pretty unlikely to me, frankly there are far easier ways to abuse women if youre a physically stronger man than going through all that.}}

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Post by halfwise Fri Oct 21, 2022 7:03 pm

So long as the "self ID" can't just be done on personal whim of the moment and there's some record process, then it sounds pretty safe to me. It seems some real thought has gone into this.

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Post by Pettytyrant101 Fri Oct 21, 2022 7:37 pm

{{ the proposals (as I mentioned above the SNP plan is not yet law and is still at stage 1 of the necessary 3 stages needed to become law) state that -

'applications would be made to the Registrar General for Scotland instead of the Gender Recognition Panel, a UK tribunal'

This is just common sense to streamline the paperwork side of it, in Scotland the Registar General does all birth, deaths and marriage records, so putting it through this rather than the long winded process and higher applicant numbers of a UK body makes perfect sense. And this would be necessary in any case as the new rules would only apply in Scotland.

'applicants do not need to submit a medical diagnosis and evidence to support the application (as current process needs)'

This removes the part of the process most disliked by transfolk, as its intrusive and odd you have to 'prove' you feel a different gender as a medical condition, for which there is not even medical consensus on how it should be done. The decison to do so is basedon the findings of the World Health Organisation- 'The World Health Organisation’s revised International Classification of Diseases, approved in 2019, redefined gender identity related health, removing it from a list of “mental and behavioural disorders”. They took this step to reflect evidence that trans‑related identities are not conditions of mental ill health, and classifying them that way can cause distress.'

'applicants would make a statutory declaration that they have lived in the acquired gender for at least three months and that they intend to live permanently in their acquired gender.'

This is pretty self explanatory.
A statutory declaration is defined in law as 'a formal statement made affirming that something is true to the best knowledge of the person making the declaration. It has to be signed in the presence of a solicitor, commissioner for oaths or notary public.' They are used for many things such changing your name, by banks when they need to transfer money to the executor of a will after someone dies, or declarations of marriage status, nationality and identity when no records are otherwise available, among other things.

'the application would then be determined by the Registrar General after a three month reflection period if the applicant confirms they want to proceed'

This gives a total minimum time someone could legally change their gender in of 6 months, though in practise most trans folk have been living as another gender for longer than the three months required prior to applying.

'applicants would either be the subject of an entry in a birth or adoption record kept by the Registrar General, or be ordinarily resident in Scotland'

Another self evident one- just making sure the Law can confirm who you are and you are a legal resident.

'the minimum age of applicants would be 16'

This is a reduction from 18 but brings it in line with many other things you are allowed to do in Scotland at 16, such as get married, vote, or join the armed forces.

'the Registrar General would be required to report annually on the operation of the process'

This is so MSP's in the Scottiosh Parliament and its various committees that keep an eye on how legislation is doing can monitor how it is functioning and that is doing what was intended.

This bill has taken years to get to this stage and its still in consulation, the notion the SNPO are focing it through or driving ahead regardless of other views is therefore clearly a nonsense. It also has cross party support in the Scottish Parliament, with only the Tories (of course)  opposing it, but theres hardly any of them in Scotland anyway.
So yes, I would say with 5 years of consultation and planning so far real thought has gone into it. }}


Last edited by Pettytyrant101 on Fri Oct 21, 2022 7:54 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Post by Pettytyrant101 Fri Oct 21, 2022 7:46 pm

{{ I should add what the bill doesnt do! }}

'The Bill does not make changes to processes for data collection. Trans people have already been able to change their legal gender since the 2004 Act came into force and the Bill is about improving the application process.

Refuges and shelters for the victims of domestic violence and sexual assault provide essential support to women leaving unsafe situations. Many refuges already support trans women escaping abuse – most domestic violence services in Scotland have been doing this for the last 10 years.
Exceptions under the Equality Act 2010 specifically allow communal accommodation and other single sex services to exclude trans people. The Act’s Explanatory Notes give an example of a group counselling session for female victims of sexual assault.
The Scottish Government supports those exceptions and the Bill does not change them.

The Bill does not make changes to toilets and changing rooms.

The Bill makes no changes in public policy including schools.

Legal gender recognition and clinical decisions about gender identity healthcare are separate issues.
A gender recognition certificate is not required in order to access gender identity healthcare. There has never been a requirement for someone to have undergone surgery or any other medical treatment to have legal gender recognition nor is there under the Bill.

Crime recording for operational purposes is a matter for the respective body, be that Police Scotland, the Crown Office and Procurator Fiscal Service or the Scottish Courts and Tribunal Service.
Police Scotland have explained that their approach to recording of crime remains what it has always been: they routinely record gender of individuals based on how they present.
The Bill does not involve changes to how Police Scotland or other bodies record or report crimes in Scotland.

The Scottish Prison Service makes decisions on the most appropriate location to accommodate transgender people in our prisons on an individual basis after careful consideration of all relevant factors, including the risks to and from the prisoner. Those are operational decisions.
Obtaining a Gender Recognition Certificate does not automatically provide access to specific accommodation.

Sports governing bodies set their own rules for participation of trans people, under the Equality Act 2010. This will not change under the Bill. The Bill makes no changes to rules for women’s sport whether professional, amateur or in schools.

There will be no change for those living outside Scotland. Applicants will need to have a Scottish birth register entry or be ordinarily resident in Scotland to apply. Being ordinarily resident in Scotland means that you live here on a settled basis, lawfully and voluntarily.'

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Post by Mrs Figg Fri Oct 21, 2022 11:47 pm

Pettytyrant101 wrote:{{ and boy theres a lot to pull apart here }}

nope, there really isn't. Surprised
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Post by Pettytyrant101 Sat Oct 22, 2022 7:19 pm


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Post by Mrs Figg Sat Oct 22, 2022 9:03 pm

When is this nonsense on?
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Post by Pettytyrant101 Sat Oct 22, 2022 9:45 pm

{{ Tomorrow- 7.30pm till 9.00 Im still really annoyed they have given Chibnall a 90 minute special to bow out on and wouldnt even give Moffat that for the 50th or RTD that for any of the 10th Doctor specials. If there is one writer and one Doctor that doesnt deserve this its this lot! Mad Just drags out the wait for the happy moment when they both piss off. }}

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Post by Mrs Figg Sun Oct 23, 2022 12:44 am

At least its sayonara to the fake Doctor.
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Post by Amarië Sun Oct 23, 2022 7:07 pm

Vale tredecim*! cheers cheers cheers
Will try to see it if we can.


*yes I googled it

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Post by Pettytyrant101 Sun Oct 23, 2022 7:18 pm



{{though for Jodies regen maybe something like this is more suitable



or maybe }}


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Post by Amarië Sun Oct 23, 2022 7:56 pm

Vale tredecim is either an enormous musical end number or a techno dance with stobe lights.

I now imagine Julie Andrews twirling around on a mountain top singing vaaa-leeee tredeciiiim....

Yeah we haven't started yet... I suspect any trace of good mood will vanish.

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Post by Pettytyrant101 Sun Oct 23, 2022 9:09 pm

{{ Well initial impressions were that was about as good as Chibnal/Jodie era has got whilst simultenousely being a complete over convoluted mess of a plot that largely existed as an excuse to move between cameos.
Yes was nice to see some old faces again, particularly Ian Chesterton at the end going all way back to the 1st Doctor. But outside the cameos and callbacks the rest was quite the mess really.
I guess the Doctor is still the Timeless Child- though apart from the still no idea where she is supposed to fit Ruth Doctor I felt this one was going out of the way to only really count the previous classic Doctors from Hartnell, as other than Ruth who got no explanation, we didnt get so much as a hint of all the other pre Hartnell ones, so I am hoping a bit like the TV Movie 'half-human on his mother's side' it will just be quietly forgotten about going ahead.
Also the ending- um, was it just me or did Tennants performance and dialogue feel like a parody of himself? }}

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Post by Mrs Figg Sun Oct 23, 2022 9:35 pm

Couldn't be bothered to watch it so don't know.
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Post by Amarië Sun Oct 23, 2022 9:38 pm

Not enough time tonight. We'll probably watch tomorrow.

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Post by Pettytyrant101 Mon Oct 24, 2022 2:52 pm

{{ I was going to start this review by recapping the plot - but I'm not sure I know what the plot was, or why most of what there was happened, or how most of it happened. I'm not sure Chibnall cared either for that matter.

It is in fact easier to list all the things I don't really understand in the plot- for example why was Vinder in this at all? In the script he says he's there to get the squiggly ball thing, which for no explained reason first appears as a small child trapped on a train- why was the child/squiggly ball on a space train? No idea. What connection did have to Vinder? No idea? What use was Vinder in the plot? Well he pointed a gun at the Master I suppose and he had nothing to do with anything that happened with squiggly thing, the supposed reason he was there, so nothing really? He was just there because.

Why was the Master disguised as Rasputin in 1916 Russia? No idea apart from it was an excuse to redo a scene from the Simm Master with a different tune- but more on riffing on the past later. Why did he make the conversion planet in the 1916 when he needed it for 2022? Again no idea. Why did he deface a bunch of classic paintings? No idea never comes back up again after being introduced.

Why was Asad the half cyberman back? What was the point? How did he contain a load of Cybermen inside himself, except as again a pale imitation of the Time Lord prison full of Daleks from the 10 era? What was Asads purpose in the story?

What was the Masters plan? To force the Doctor to regenerate into him so he could trash the Doctors reputation- eh? But when he does it he looks and sounds just like the Master- so whats the difference between just killing  her, stealing her TARDIS and saying he's the Doctor? Wouldn't that be a  lot easier and achieve the same thing? And wasn't his whole destroy Gallifrey in a rage thing over the Timeless Child all because he couldn't stand the thought of even a tiny piece of the Doctor being a part of him - now he suddenly wants to physically turn into her? As well it  again being reminiscent of the Master story in 10 era when he makes everyone into a version of himself.

How did Grahame get into the volcano past all the Daleks- when they go to stop the Daleks in the volcano why is there suddenly only 1 Dalek there? Where did the rest mysteriously vanish to?

How did Tegan survive the fall from the ladder down several floors? And so on, the episode is full of these little inexplicable moments where things are handwaved away or glossed over or just ignored in the hope its all moving so fast you wont notice.

The point here is to show that the actual convoluted plot of this episode is nonsensical and largely pointless. So what is its purpose if its not to tell a coherent narrative? Well its just connecting tissue between a lot of, admittedly often half-decent, fan service. But if you don't know about Ace and her relationship with 7, Tegan and the fat eof Adric and a lot more besides your not going to get an awful lot out of this and I suspect that will leave not a lot to enjoy about this.

And then there is the plot stuff you might expect should be there, but isn't.

Want to know what the point of the whole Timeless Child nonsense was? What was in the fobwatch? Well forget about it the show seems to have.

Is the universe still half destroyed after the Flux stuff? No idea its just not mentioned at all.

Is Gallifrey completely destroyed all its people dead? Are all the Time Lords now Cybermen? No idea.

Who was the Ruth Doctor? Where does she fit in the timeline why did she have a TARDIS from post 1st Doctor era if she was from some supposed earlier time? What was the Division and what they doing and why? Not a clue.

In fact not a single thread that Chibnal has set up and left hanging is tied up here, not one. Not even the Doctor /Yaz hastily shoehorned in romance story.
In some ways it fairs the worse, as despite a half decent scene of them sitting atop the TARDIS eating ice-cream together the whole thing feel sidelined. Yaz just leaves at the end because the Doctor says she has to do the next bit alone- no explanation for why she has to regen alone, the Doctors regenerated with companions present plenty before they usually help him get through the trauma of it and re-establish themselves out the other side of the process. But no Yaz has to go away, and it doesn't feel like there is a proper reason for why, and in fact it feels like it goes against the grain of their narrative together. It simply has the feel of 'we have to get all the pieces off the board before the end' so Yaz has to go and this will do.

The same can be said for Jodies regen- you might expect it to be tied to the broader story or at the least the broader themes of her era - if you look at 10's regen it about his acceptance after the Time Lord Victorious stuff of who he is, proud in the end to lay down his life for Wilfs despite not wanting to go - it fitted his arc, with Smith it was the man who could never settle in one place, finding a purpose and duty in staying in Trenzalore for a thousand years to protect its people and his acceptance of what he had done in the Time War, like his tenure its about memory and change and the threads that binds us throughout changing lives, with 12 it was about doing what is right despite personal cost, being kind in the face of cruelty for no other reason than to be kind, a final summing of his journey from questioning if he is even doing good or not in the universe.
Jodies regen isn't really about anything- its only happens because big squiggly laser thing gets suddenly shoved in her direction by the Master at the last moment out of nowhere after the main plots over, its got no attachment to the episodes narrative let alone any wider themes of her era. It brings nothing together and it doesn't feel like the end of a journey. Its more akin to the Yaz thing, it feels like a piece that needs moved on the board by the end- she's leaving the show we need her to regen somehow, this will do. Its hollow, it happens because it has to happen for the show to move on, not for any story reasons at all.

And this same problem befalls Dan too – the point of bringing him into the show at all is now puzzling me as he hasn't actually done anything, he is only at the start and end of this one and he leaves for reasons just as weak as Yaz or the regen.

So the plot is nonsensical, the regeneration not tied to any greater thematic or narrative purpose, and the companion exits are just sort of there as things that necessarily need to happen.

Its also full of stuff that feels like a rehash of things done better before- Master dancing about to a pop tune? Check. A Dalek that  wants to wipe out other Daleks? Check (despite the episode having the Doctor say this is a new thing unheard of we had this not long ago with Capaldi's Doctor and Rusty the Dalek), Master forcing people to turn into him? Check. Cyberman that contains hundreds of others inside? Check (ok was Daleks last time and made more sense but still very similar), all the Doctors companions flying the TARDIS together? Check, and so it goes on, with dialogue that references previous episodes and the like continuing throughout.

Now this is a centenary episode for the BBC centenary and so the excuse is it should be full of references to the shows long history- but the same could be said of the 50th episode, and whilst it was full of easter eggs and references to the shows past it did not rely on them as the meat of what it presented. It told its own new, unique, comprehensible story that made sense that anyone could follow.

Here there isnt a coherent story to follow, its just made up of call backs, easter eggs, references and out and out cameos from everyone still alive from the shows past they could persuade to appear.

And yes those are the best bits of this, it will make a fun set of tik-tok shorts with 7th talking to Ace, 5th to Tehgan about Adric, the 13th meeting the rest in her regen place thingy, the companions anonymous meeting at the end-  its like the episode was built around these potential memes rather than any actual story or point.

But as a finale for the first female Doctor, it feels like an acceptance of failure that's driven further home by the ending when she regens not into our newly cast Ncuti, but back into Tennant - well into another version of Tennants Doctor as according to the BBC official blurp put out afterwards he is not reprising his role as the 10th Doctor, but is the next one, the 14th for the length of the 3 60th anniversary specials next year- although how different he will be from when he played the 10th we shall have to wait and see. But it was notable that whilst he got the expected 10 lines of dialogue to say, mainly looking surprised, pulling a face and saying “What?” a lot of time, his voice was notably lower pitched than when he said those words as 10, I assume to indicate he is not the same Doctor as 10 (similarly his clothing which for some reason also changes this time in the regen) is like the old but slightly different from his 10 look. How different this 14th version will be from his 10th we will see in due course when the 3 specials air next November.

But going back to a popular male Doctor after a very contentious free- falling in ratings and AI female Doctor seems like the BBC throwing in the towel and accepting it didn't really work - and that is the biggest shame of the Chibnal era- that it may have tarnished the idea of a female Doctor when there is no reason whatsoever it would not work with competent writing and performances. Its such a tragedy the first female Doctor had neither.

So this era ends as it perhaps always going to- unsatisfactorily with none of its big ideas resolved or explained, its themes murky if they exist at all and the point of it beyond 'look the Doctors a woman now' hard to discern. Fittingly its an episode in which the Doctor herself is overshadowed by everything else, sidelined in her own regen story, and out played on screen by Dhawans Master and even the Ruth Doctors brief cameo which still manages to hold more gravitas in a few moments off screen-time than Jodies Doctor does the entire 90 minute run time. But as I say fitting for an era in which one of the central issues has been neither the writer nor the actor seeming to ever get a grip on who the Doctor is.  I leave the 13th era with no further an idea of who the 13th Doctor was than I began with.}}

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All New Who - Page 40 Empty Re: All New Who

Post by Amarië Mon Oct 24, 2022 8:22 pm

BBC isn't as easily fooled as they used to be, so no Who for us today.

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All New Who - Page 40 Empty Re: All New Who

Post by Pettytyrant101 Tue Oct 25, 2022 2:51 am

{{ Not sure if thats good or bad thing Amarie! This is one of the oddest episodes of Who Ive ever watched- its both the best of this era by a country mile, and still a complete mess all at the same time. I suspect it will have some more appeal to old fans like me who grew up on classic as its a love letter to it in parts (though also clumsy as hell in parts) and a total dogs breakfast in terms of a coherent narrative. Like I say its a weird one.

For anyone not watching the ep but curious about the fanwank  of which there is a plethora heres some clips-

Spoiler:
}}

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