All New Who

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Post by Amarië Sun Oct 23, 2022 7:07 pm

Vale tredecim*! cheers cheers cheers
Will try to see it if we can.


*yes I googled it

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Post by Pettytyrant101 Sun Oct 23, 2022 7:18 pm



{{though for Jodies regen maybe something like this is more suitable



or maybe }}


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Post by Amarië Sun Oct 23, 2022 7:56 pm

Vale tredecim is either an enormous musical end number or a techno dance with stobe lights.

I now imagine Julie Andrews twirling around on a mountain top singing vaaa-leeee tredeciiiim....

Yeah we haven't started yet... I suspect any trace of good mood will vanish.

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Post by Pettytyrant101 Sun Oct 23, 2022 9:09 pm

{{ Well initial impressions were that was about as good as Chibnal/Jodie era has got whilst simultenousely being a complete over convoluted mess of a plot that largely existed as an excuse to move between cameos.
Yes was nice to see some old faces again, particularly Ian Chesterton at the end going all way back to the 1st Doctor. But outside the cameos and callbacks the rest was quite the mess really.
I guess the Doctor is still the Timeless Child- though apart from the still no idea where she is supposed to fit Ruth Doctor I felt this one was going out of the way to only really count the previous classic Doctors from Hartnell, as other than Ruth who got no explanation, we didnt get so much as a hint of all the other pre Hartnell ones, so I am hoping a bit like the TV Movie 'half-human on his mother's side' it will just be quietly forgotten about going ahead.
Also the ending- um, was it just me or did Tennants performance and dialogue feel like a parody of himself? }}

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Post by Mrs Figg Sun Oct 23, 2022 9:35 pm

Couldn't be bothered to watch it so don't know.
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Post by Amarië Sun Oct 23, 2022 9:38 pm

Not enough time tonight. We'll probably watch tomorrow.

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Post by Pettytyrant101 Mon Oct 24, 2022 2:52 pm

{{ I was going to start this review by recapping the plot - but I'm not sure I know what the plot was, or why most of what there was happened, or how most of it happened. I'm not sure Chibnall cared either for that matter.

It is in fact easier to list all the things I don't really understand in the plot- for example why was Vinder in this at all? In the script he says he's there to get the squiggly ball thing, which for no explained reason first appears as a small child trapped on a train- why was the child/squiggly ball on a space train? No idea. What connection did have to Vinder? No idea? What use was Vinder in the plot? Well he pointed a gun at the Master I suppose and he had nothing to do with anything that happened with squiggly thing, the supposed reason he was there, so nothing really? He was just there because.

Why was the Master disguised as Rasputin in 1916 Russia? No idea apart from it was an excuse to redo a scene from the Simm Master with a different tune- but more on riffing on the past later. Why did he make the conversion planet in the 1916 when he needed it for 2022? Again no idea. Why did he deface a bunch of classic paintings? No idea never comes back up again after being introduced.

Why was Asad the half cyberman back? What was the point? How did he contain a load of Cybermen inside himself, except as again a pale imitation of the Time Lord prison full of Daleks from the 10 era? What was Asads purpose in the story?

What was the Masters plan? To force the Doctor to regenerate into him so he could trash the Doctors reputation- eh? But when he does it he looks and sounds just like the Master- so whats the difference between just killing  her, stealing her TARDIS and saying he's the Doctor? Wouldn't that be a  lot easier and achieve the same thing? And wasn't his whole destroy Gallifrey in a rage thing over the Timeless Child all because he couldn't stand the thought of even a tiny piece of the Doctor being a part of him - now he suddenly wants to physically turn into her? As well it  again being reminiscent of the Master story in 10 era when he makes everyone into a version of himself.

How did Grahame get into the volcano past all the Daleks- when they go to stop the Daleks in the volcano why is there suddenly only 1 Dalek there? Where did the rest mysteriously vanish to?

How did Tegan survive the fall from the ladder down several floors? And so on, the episode is full of these little inexplicable moments where things are handwaved away or glossed over or just ignored in the hope its all moving so fast you wont notice.

The point here is to show that the actual convoluted plot of this episode is nonsensical and largely pointless. So what is its purpose if its not to tell a coherent narrative? Well its just connecting tissue between a lot of, admittedly often half-decent, fan service. But if you don't know about Ace and her relationship with 7, Tegan and the fat eof Adric and a lot more besides your not going to get an awful lot out of this and I suspect that will leave not a lot to enjoy about this.

And then there is the plot stuff you might expect should be there, but isn't.

Want to know what the point of the whole Timeless Child nonsense was? What was in the fobwatch? Well forget about it the show seems to have.

Is the universe still half destroyed after the Flux stuff? No idea its just not mentioned at all.

Is Gallifrey completely destroyed all its people dead? Are all the Time Lords now Cybermen? No idea.

Who was the Ruth Doctor? Where does she fit in the timeline why did she have a TARDIS from post 1st Doctor era if she was from some supposed earlier time? What was the Division and what they doing and why? Not a clue.

In fact not a single thread that Chibnal has set up and left hanging is tied up here, not one. Not even the Doctor /Yaz hastily shoehorned in romance story.
In some ways it fairs the worse, as despite a half decent scene of them sitting atop the TARDIS eating ice-cream together the whole thing feel sidelined. Yaz just leaves at the end because the Doctor says she has to do the next bit alone- no explanation for why she has to regen alone, the Doctors regenerated with companions present plenty before they usually help him get through the trauma of it and re-establish themselves out the other side of the process. But no Yaz has to go away, and it doesn't feel like there is a proper reason for why, and in fact it feels like it goes against the grain of their narrative together. It simply has the feel of 'we have to get all the pieces off the board before the end' so Yaz has to go and this will do.

The same can be said for Jodies regen- you might expect it to be tied to the broader story or at the least the broader themes of her era - if you look at 10's regen it about his acceptance after the Time Lord Victorious stuff of who he is, proud in the end to lay down his life for Wilfs despite not wanting to go - it fitted his arc, with Smith it was the man who could never settle in one place, finding a purpose and duty in staying in Trenzalore for a thousand years to protect its people and his acceptance of what he had done in the Time War, like his tenure its about memory and change and the threads that binds us throughout changing lives, with 12 it was about doing what is right despite personal cost, being kind in the face of cruelty for no other reason than to be kind, a final summing of his journey from questioning if he is even doing good or not in the universe.
Jodies regen isn't really about anything- its only happens because big squiggly laser thing gets suddenly shoved in her direction by the Master at the last moment out of nowhere after the main plots over, its got no attachment to the episodes narrative let alone any wider themes of her era. It brings nothing together and it doesn't feel like the end of a journey. Its more akin to the Yaz thing, it feels like a piece that needs moved on the board by the end- she's leaving the show we need her to regen somehow, this will do. Its hollow, it happens because it has to happen for the show to move on, not for any story reasons at all.

And this same problem befalls Dan too – the point of bringing him into the show at all is now puzzling me as he hasn't actually done anything, he is only at the start and end of this one and he leaves for reasons just as weak as Yaz or the regen.

So the plot is nonsensical, the regeneration not tied to any greater thematic or narrative purpose, and the companion exits are just sort of there as things that necessarily need to happen.

Its also full of stuff that feels like a rehash of things done better before- Master dancing about to a pop tune? Check. A Dalek that  wants to wipe out other Daleks? Check (despite the episode having the Doctor say this is a new thing unheard of we had this not long ago with Capaldi's Doctor and Rusty the Dalek), Master forcing people to turn into him? Check. Cyberman that contains hundreds of others inside? Check (ok was Daleks last time and made more sense but still very similar), all the Doctors companions flying the TARDIS together? Check, and so it goes on, with dialogue that references previous episodes and the like continuing throughout.

Now this is a centenary episode for the BBC centenary and so the excuse is it should be full of references to the shows long history- but the same could be said of the 50th episode, and whilst it was full of easter eggs and references to the shows past it did not rely on them as the meat of what it presented. It told its own new, unique, comprehensible story that made sense that anyone could follow.

Here there isnt a coherent story to follow, its just made up of call backs, easter eggs, references and out and out cameos from everyone still alive from the shows past they could persuade to appear.

And yes those are the best bits of this, it will make a fun set of tik-tok shorts with 7th talking to Ace, 5th to Tehgan about Adric, the 13th meeting the rest in her regen place thingy, the companions anonymous meeting at the end-  its like the episode was built around these potential memes rather than any actual story or point.

But as a finale for the first female Doctor, it feels like an acceptance of failure that's driven further home by the ending when she regens not into our newly cast Ncuti, but back into Tennant - well into another version of Tennants Doctor as according to the BBC official blurp put out afterwards he is not reprising his role as the 10th Doctor, but is the next one, the 14th for the length of the 3 60th anniversary specials next year- although how different he will be from when he played the 10th we shall have to wait and see. But it was notable that whilst he got the expected 10 lines of dialogue to say, mainly looking surprised, pulling a face and saying “What?” a lot of time, his voice was notably lower pitched than when he said those words as 10, I assume to indicate he is not the same Doctor as 10 (similarly his clothing which for some reason also changes this time in the regen) is like the old but slightly different from his 10 look. How different this 14th version will be from his 10th we will see in due course when the 3 specials air next November.

But going back to a popular male Doctor after a very contentious free- falling in ratings and AI female Doctor seems like the BBC throwing in the towel and accepting it didn't really work - and that is the biggest shame of the Chibnal era- that it may have tarnished the idea of a female Doctor when there is no reason whatsoever it would not work with competent writing and performances. Its such a tragedy the first female Doctor had neither.

So this era ends as it perhaps always going to- unsatisfactorily with none of its big ideas resolved or explained, its themes murky if they exist at all and the point of it beyond 'look the Doctors a woman now' hard to discern. Fittingly its an episode in which the Doctor herself is overshadowed by everything else, sidelined in her own regen story, and out played on screen by Dhawans Master and even the Ruth Doctors brief cameo which still manages to hold more gravitas in a few moments off screen-time than Jodies Doctor does the entire 90 minute run time. But as I say fitting for an era in which one of the central issues has been neither the writer nor the actor seeming to ever get a grip on who the Doctor is.  I leave the 13th era with no further an idea of who the 13th Doctor was than I began with.}}

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Post by Amarië Mon Oct 24, 2022 8:22 pm

BBC isn't as easily fooled as they used to be, so no Who for us today.

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Post by Pettytyrant101 Tue Oct 25, 2022 2:51 am

{{ Not sure if thats good or bad thing Amarie! This is one of the oddest episodes of Who Ive ever watched- its both the best of this era by a country mile, and still a complete mess all at the same time. I suspect it will have some more appeal to old fans like me who grew up on classic as its a love letter to it in parts (though also clumsy as hell in parts) and a total dogs breakfast in terms of a coherent narrative. Like I say its a weird one.

For anyone not watching the ep but curious about the fanwank  of which there is a plethora heres some clips-

Spoiler:
}}

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Post by Forest Shepherd Tue Oct 25, 2022 6:20 am

Doctor Who thread talking about trannies again Laughing

What's all this about a certain Doctor coming back? Just for the Christmas Special I suppose?

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Post by Pettytyrant101 Tue Oct 25, 2022 10:56 am

{{ If you check the last clip I posted youll see the regen scene for yourself Forest! And yes he is back with Catherine Tate's Donna for 3 specials to mark the 60th anniversary, which will be broadcast next Novemeber. According to the BBC he is not playing the 10th Doctor however but is the 14th Doctor, with new guy Ncuti being the 15th }}

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Post by Pettytyrant101 Tue Oct 25, 2022 3:28 pm


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Post by Pettytyrant101 Wed Oct 26, 2022 8:46 pm

{ So the big news is that Disney+ will be the platform for Who outside the UK going ahead. And the new logo, which looks to me exactly the same as the 1970's logo, which I'm perfectly happy with as its the one I grew up with, but is an interesting choice to go back to now.

New logo on the right, 70's on the left as it appeared in the intro sequence back then, not a lot of difference has to be said- either my screen is being weird or for some reason you have to click the image to see it in full. }}

All New Who Doctor-Who-Logos

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Post by Amarië Sat Oct 29, 2022 9:02 pm

Watched it! I share your confusion. It had charm and nostalgia and was a nice closing chapter. And it didn’t make sense. Weird indeed.

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Post by Pettytyrant101 Sun Oct 30, 2022 4:23 pm

{{ It's the only episode of Chibnall Who I have watched twice, and whilst there is on a second viewing sort of a plot in there, it still makes no sense whatsoever, and in fact a second watch makes some things more confusing and not less- for example I never clicked on first viewing that squiggly ball of energy when for inexplicable reasons its a child on the space train its the Timeless Child (the first one that fell through the space portal) and I have absolutely no idea why. The nostalgia bait is also a lot less engaging the second time through and you realise just how empty most of it actually is, and how little, if anything, most of it has to do with whats passing for the plot.
A second viewing confirmed I still dont know why the Master is pretending to be Rasputin, or even if he really was Rasputin for that matter and there is no sense I could find in the order of events between Rasputin Master, Master pretending to be a siesmologist and Master trying to be the Doctor- there seems to be 3 distinct versions at 3 diffewrent times, but what order things are supposed to be happening in is a complete mystery still.

Interestingly this is the first episode in 2 series or something to be back into the 80's in Ai's, low 80's granted but an improvement (not enough to drag the average as high as 80 its still in the 70's) but Im not sure if thats for people enjoying the episode more than usual for this era, the nostalgia and fan service doing its bit, or seeing the back of Jodie and the appearance of Tennant again. Id be suprised if you took the call backs to classic out and Tennant at the end if this would have broken 80 on its own plot merits. }}

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Post by Amarië Sun Oct 30, 2022 4:40 pm

I think 13 said something about the being choosing that shape so they would want to protect it.

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Post by Pettytyrant101 Sun Oct 30, 2022 4:41 pm

{{ yeah but why would that shape make others want to protect it? Its already a girl before she turns up! }}

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Post by Amarië Sun Oct 30, 2022 4:57 pm

I have no idea, and I suspect neither do the writers. I vaguely wondered if it was bargaining on an instinct to protect children. I think that is giving them too much credit.

It's likely so us watching will think it is that child, but noone says anything about it so... Maybe just part of the known-who-faces parade.

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Post by Pettytyrant101 Sun Oct 30, 2022 5:11 pm

{{ Theres also the problem its in a prison on the train, so looking like a child is obviously not helping on the sympathy front- the people who have it trapped obviously dont care, so why doesn't it revert to squiggly energy ball capable of blasting an entire moon away? But its just one of the many, many plot threads that the more you think about them the less and less sense they make. }}

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Post by Amarië Sun Oct 30, 2022 5:18 pm

We need a meme. Picture of 10 where it says don't blink.
Picture of 13 where it says: don't think.

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Post by Pettytyrant101 Sun Oct 30, 2022 5:35 pm

{{ Laughing }}

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All New Who Empty Re: All New Who

Post by Mrs Figg Wed Nov 02, 2022 10:55 pm

That last minute was the best thing in the whole of the 13th Doctor episodes.
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Post by Pettytyrant101 Thu Nov 03, 2022 6:30 am

{{ Love these- the fan who grew up to be Who! }}

All New Who 312047500-6134631933236325-5560860231648582709-n

All New Who 312254289-6134631076569744-6663118371241700953-n

All New Who 311690868-6134632076569644-4264311148393641008-n

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Pure Publications, The Tower of Lore and the Former Admin's Office are Reasonably Proud to Present-



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- get your copy here for a limited period- free*

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*Pure Publications reserves the right to track your usage of this publication, snoop on your home address, go through your bins and sell personal information on to the highest bidder.
Warning may contain Wholesome Tales
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Post by Amarië Thu Nov 03, 2022 7:10 am

Aww, that is cute. I love you

That last minute was the best thing in the whole of the 13th Doctor episodes.
Laughing True. True.

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All New Who Empty Re: All New Who

Post by Amarië Thu Nov 03, 2022 9:28 am

Daughter (15) was very annoyed and frustrated with a teacher and a test they will have today. They have barely touched the topic. The practice questions and the answers the teacher gave didn't fully match, some repeated themselves, some were unclear. (She showed us.) She was very frustrated with the whole thing because it didn't make sense. She said, "I sat there and I though "this is EXACTLY like when Mom complains about Doctor Who!!"  I laughed out loud.

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