Game of Thrones [2]

He is just as boring in the books (in my opinion). At least they got that bit right. Although his storyline I think has not progressed beyond meeting the three eyed raven in the books, which means he will have to make an appearance there as well soon. I hope Martin scraps this whole idea, lets him die of frostbite or something, and pick any of the others. Sorry for all the crabbit

no worries I am pretty crabbit as well. I just hope he changes the books so Dany doesn't have to be killed by Jon, that is still upsetting me days later.

I'd say if anything Jon killing Dany is a foregone conclusion.

I have to agree with halfy, and if dany goes zerk mode in the books as well there will be no room for a new Targaryen on the throne after Jon has done what he must. So Bran it is, I guess. And I'll stop there, I'll only whine about that god damn bore anyway.

 this is quite brilliant

https://www.elle.com/culture/movies-tv/a24513768/game-of-thrones-prequel-news-cast-date-rumors/

so Season 8 got 32 emmys, more than any season before, and people are complaining it didn't deserve it. I see this as RotK sweeping the Oscars: tribute is being given to the show as a whole.

Yeah, season 8 did not live up to the promise, but I thought the show as a whole was a monumental achievement, despite many shortcomings. I think part of problem was that parts of it were truly great, and there was outrage when not all of it lived up to the promise of the great parts.

Anyway, I'm nearing the end of the first book reread. GRRM proves himself a great writer in that each character has a nugget of wisdom to impart to the reader. This is a writer who has observed and thought deeply, and it all comes out in the writing.

During my re-read of Clash of Kings I had a realization.  I and some others I've read were upset at the Dothraki frontal charge on the undead during the battle of Winterfell.  If you know Mongol tactics they would let foot soldiers tie up foot soldiers, then charge from the the side and just roll them up.  This is how they could defeat armies much larger than their own.

But D&D were careful enough readers to have picked up Jon Snow's parentage, and so would have noticed something that Jorah Mormont mentioned offhand to Daenerys: that to the Dothraki, foot soldiers were considered unworthy of anything more than a quick charge to sweep them up.  It seems the only warriors in Essos who had an effective enough shield wall formation to withstand calvary charges were the unsullied, and Jorah was urging Daenerys to pick up an army of them because this made them more formidable than the Dothraki.

Forum-readers, maybe.

Anyway, what are you getting at Halfy? That the Unsullied and Dothraki complement each other really well?

What I've getting at is those who criticized the frontal Dothraki charge (I was one of them) may have done the show a disservice: this was actually authentic to the Dothraki, and so though it can be criticized on tactical terms it can't be attacked as just dumb writing.

Ah, well, it was not the Dothraki in charge, but the named characters. And the shiny sparkle of their badges of ineptitude continues unabated.

Well that was interesting.  The series of books is so long that we end up relying on the TV series for plot memory.   I finally got to the part in my re-read where Arya and the Hound are in the Inn, and the Hound says he'll take two chickens.  Except not in the books - that was all a brilliant bit of scripted condensation that was so perfectly acted we remember it as the way it happened.  And the part where the Hound meets Brienne was no doubt put in as fan-service, but most of it was well enough done that I have to give the script writers credit (I wasn't a fan of the fight itself, but the dialogue and acting was nice).

So though I still didn't like most of season 8, I do have to tip my hat in general to some of the permutations thrown into the adaptation, at least when they had a book to work from.

I agree.

Arya's conversations with Tywin weren't in the book either (if I am correct) and I thought they were really well done.

It seems to be well done where they were additions, not brand new.

Yeah, they need a framework to do most of the heavy lifting.  When cast off on their own it was all too much to handle.  There's a reason GRRM takes so long to write - getting the truth into writing is hard work.  Or as Flannery O'Connor observed, first you write, then you go back and take all the lies out.

I heard that second hand from a writing professor, but can't find it in a list of her quotes.  However, she does quote quite a bit about truth in fiction.  Here's a few:

"I write to discover what I know."

“Writing a novel is a terrible experience, during which the hair often falls out and the teeth decay. I'm always irritated by people who imply that writing fiction is an escape from reality. It is a plunge into reality and it's very shocking to the system.”

“Remember that you don't write a story because you have an idea but because you have a believable character.”

And thought this doesn't say anything about truth, I still love it:

“Whenever I’m asked why Southern writers particularly have a penchant for writing about freaks, I say it is because we are still able to recognize one.”

Oh lord, now that I'm reading Flannery O'Connor quotes I just can't stop.

“When I was six I had a chicken that walked backward and was in the Pathe News. I was in it too with the chicken. I was just there to assist the chicken but it was the high point in my life. Everything since has been anticlimax."

“Mrs. Hopewell had no bad qualities of her own but she was able to use other people's in such a constructive way that she never felt the lack.”

“There's many a bestseller that could have been prevented by a good teacher.”

Did we find out what all the symbols meant?

Who was in the box Varys kept.

I thought the guy who neutered him was in the box, but not sure where I got that from.

Not good.

I saw that, and was more interested in it than the Targaryen prequel they greenlit.

Yeah the Targaryen thing can bugger off. I've seen enough incest in Westeros for now.

I'm okay with this show being cancelled though.

I thought the original pilot sucked as well, but it didn't do them any harm. Although I wasn't convinced that Naomi Watts was a good casting choice.

I just noticed Ringo's earlier comment about not liking Sansa. I actually enjoyed her evolution in the show - she grew into something of a tightly-controlled bad-ass. I always liked the scenes between her and Jon where she'd let him go on for a bit, then say "Jon..." and you felt this steeliness in her as she pushed him off in her preferred direction, like wrangling a teenager.

We haven't gotten to that point in the books, though we see glimpses in how she handles little brat Aron in the Vale. I think she earned her place as the Lady of Winterfell.

The idea that Sansa could only become a "strong" person by suffering horrors under Ramsey, and learned how to become a "mastermind" by learning from Littlefinger is the biggest covering-the-writer's-asses nonsense in the entire show.

What happened, chronologically, is that Sansa was developing in some interesting ways early on. She starts off selfish and foolish, but begins to develop some sense after losing her father and spending time in King's Landing. She leaves there with Littlefinger, and that's fine, going off to the Eyrie and whatever.

But then, the writer's start fucking everything up. Ah, what's the next move Littlefinger? Oh, submit to being Ramsey's bride for... no reason? Ah what a wise tactical move Littlefinger, ya gobshite. Ah yes this is indeed lovely, being raped in front of Theon, shamed and abused. What a genius fucking move.

Ah, but then it all worked out because... well no it didn't all work out. Theon was the one that saved Sansa while Littlefinger was off dicking around. Jon comes in with the northerners to defeat the Boltons, Sansa fucks them over, nearly killing them all in the battle due to her decision to NOT TELL THEM ABOUT THE INCOMING VALE ARMY.

After Winterfell is reclaimed by the Starks, Littlefinger mopes around for a while doing nothing again. Sansa is meant to be liberated by Ramsey's violent death or some tripe, and now spends the next couple seasons being super-smart all of a sudden for thinking about things like basic food requirements.

It's all just nothing though. There's no good reason for Sansa to have married Ramsey. It didn't accomplish crap. Acting like it was necessary character development is just the writer's trying to ret-con their idiotic mistakes.

Littlefinger hasn't done anything smart in the show for several seasons. Sansa hasn't done anything smart for several seasons. Acting like Sansa is smart, or that she learned it from Littlefinger, is again just the writer's trying to pretend that her arc was well-written and that they are good at their jobs.