Just...................whatever

Page 2 of 40 Previous  1, 2, 3 ... 21 ... 40  Next

Go down

Just...................whatever - Page 2 Empty Re: Just...................whatever

Post by Ringdrotten Fri Jun 24, 2011 2:49 pm

Think I mentioned this at some point before, but I'm going away tonight so I thought I'd let you all know Smile I'll be back in either one or three weeks, depending on this and that (I'll explain when I come home again). And I don't want to find the forum littered with unrespectable posts when I come back, so take care of them, Odo! I'll pop in again before I leave Smile

_________________
“The Lord is my shepherd. I shall not want for nothing. He makes me lie down in the green pastures. He greases up my head with oil. He gives me kung-fu in the face of my enemies. Amen”. - Tom Cullen


Just...................whatever - Page 2 Man-in-black
Ringdrotten
Ringdrotten
Mrs Bear Grylls

Posts : 4600
Join date : 2011-02-13

Back to top Go down

Just...................whatever - Page 2 Empty Re: Just...................whatever

Post by Eldorion Fri Jun 24, 2011 4:15 pm

I hope things go well for you, Ringdrotten! Smile Do enjoy your (vacation? basic training? Quest to Mount Doom?) and don't be a stranger when you come back. Cool
Eldorion
Eldorion
You're Gonna Carry That Weight

Posts : 23311
Join date : 2011-02-13
Age : 26
Location : Maryland, United States

https://purl.org/tolkien

Back to top Go down

Just...................whatever - Page 2 Empty Re: Just...................whatever

Post by Pettytyrant101 Fri Jun 24, 2011 4:20 pm

How very mysterious sounding Ringdrotten! Whatever you are up to have a good time. I'll try to keep the buckie flowing till your return (but no promises).

_________________
Pure Publications, The Tower of Lore and the Former Admin's Office are Reasonably Proud to Present-



A Green And Pleasant Land

Compiled and annotated by Eldorion.


- get your copy here for a limited period- free*

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1yjYiz8nuL3LqJ-yP9crpDKu_BH-1LwJU/view



*Pure Publications reserves the right to track your usage of this publication, snoop on your home address, go through your bins and sell personal information on to the highest bidder.
Warning may contain Wholesome Tales
Pettytyrant101
Pettytyrant101
Crabbitmeister

Posts : 44261
Join date : 2011-02-14
Age : 49
Location : Scotshobbitland

Back to top Go down

Just...................whatever - Page 2 Empty Re: Just...................whatever

Post by Ringdrotten Fri Jun 24, 2011 5:37 pm

Thanks for the well wishes Smile It's not a vacation, that's all I'll say for now - and stranger, me? Smile

_________________
“The Lord is my shepherd. I shall not want for nothing. He makes me lie down in the green pastures. He greases up my head with oil. He gives me kung-fu in the face of my enemies. Amen”. - Tom Cullen


Just...................whatever - Page 2 Man-in-black
Ringdrotten
Ringdrotten
Mrs Bear Grylls

Posts : 4600
Join date : 2011-02-13

Back to top Go down

Just...................whatever - Page 2 Empty Re: Just...................whatever

Post by Pettytyrant101 Fri Jun 24, 2011 5:56 pm

Now thats just added intrigue to the mystery. I'm betting it'll be some top secret Norwegan Herring ceremony to mark the ascent into manhood.

_________________
Pure Publications, The Tower of Lore and the Former Admin's Office are Reasonably Proud to Present-



A Green And Pleasant Land

Compiled and annotated by Eldorion.


- get your copy here for a limited period- free*

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1yjYiz8nuL3LqJ-yP9crpDKu_BH-1LwJU/view



*Pure Publications reserves the right to track your usage of this publication, snoop on your home address, go through your bins and sell personal information on to the highest bidder.
Warning may contain Wholesome Tales
Pettytyrant101
Pettytyrant101
Crabbitmeister

Posts : 44261
Join date : 2011-02-14
Age : 49
Location : Scotshobbitland

Back to top Go down

Just...................whatever - Page 2 Empty Re: Just...................whatever

Post by Tinuviel Fri Jun 24, 2011 6:23 pm

Safe travels Ringdrotten! And I'll keep an eye on everything. Two eyes actually, cyclops cyclops , as often as I can spare them!

((((We both know how off topic even the most respectable people can be Suspect )))))))

_________________
"I think that many confuse 'applicability' with 'allegory'; but the one resides in the freedom of the reader, and the other in the purposed domination of the author." -JRRT

Just...................whatever - Page 2 Tumblr_ndsrspapRL1qlqsnio3_500
Tinuviel
Tinuviel
Finest Nose

Posts : 1937
Join date : 2011-02-15
Age : 25

Back to top Go down

Just...................whatever - Page 2 Empty Re: Just...................whatever

Post by Squach Fri Jun 24, 2011 6:42 pm

Just...................whatever - Page 2 Smiley-bounce014
Just...................whatever - Page 2 Smiley-bounce016
Just...................whatever - Page 2 Smiley-char023
Just...................whatever - Page 2 Smiley-fart001
Just...................whatever - Page 2 Emoticon-cute-004

_________________
Just...................whatever - Page 2 Siggytry

I like poking things with sticks. Get over it.
Bouncy bouncy  bounce  bounce  bounce  bounce  bounce  bouncy bouncy Smile
Your mum.
Squach
Squach
Princess Of All Things Fashionable

Posts : 713
Join date : 2011-02-16
Age : 22
Location : Brit-rain. Yorkshire, yo. On the sofa poking Kafria.

Back to top Go down

Just...................whatever - Page 2 Empty Re: Just...................whatever

Post by Eldorion Fri Jun 24, 2011 7:02 pm

Pettytyrant101 wrote:Now thats just added intrigue to the mystery. I'm betting it'll be some top secret Norwegan Herring ceremony to mark the ascent into manhood.

Does that involve making sacrifices to the Danish Overlords? Twisted Evil
Eldorion
Eldorion
You're Gonna Carry That Weight

Posts : 23311
Join date : 2011-02-13
Age : 26
Location : Maryland, United States

https://purl.org/tolkien

Back to top Go down

Just...................whatever - Page 2 Empty Re: Just...................whatever

Post by Ringdrotten Fri Jun 24, 2011 7:15 pm

"Now thats just added intrigue to the mystery. I'm betting it'll be some top secret Norwegan Herring ceremony to mark the ascent into manhood." - Petty

lol!

"Does that involve making sacrifices to the Danish Overlords? Twisted Evil "

Just...................whatever - Page 2 Smiley-angry019

_________________
“The Lord is my shepherd. I shall not want for nothing. He makes me lie down in the green pastures. He greases up my head with oil. He gives me kung-fu in the face of my enemies. Amen”. - Tom Cullen


Just...................whatever - Page 2 Man-in-black
Ringdrotten
Ringdrotten
Mrs Bear Grylls

Posts : 4600
Join date : 2011-02-13

Back to top Go down

Just...................whatever - Page 2 Empty Re: Just...................whatever

Post by Eldorion Fri Jun 24, 2011 7:21 pm

Guys, guys, I've just realized what Ringdrotten is really up to!

Just...................whatever - Page 2 SPNZW
Eldorion
Eldorion
You're Gonna Carry That Weight

Posts : 23311
Join date : 2011-02-13
Age : 26
Location : Maryland, United States

https://purl.org/tolkien

Back to top Go down

Just...................whatever - Page 2 Empty Re: Just...................whatever

Post by Ringdrotten Fri Jun 24, 2011 7:42 pm

Damn, so you know then Mad Laughing

And thanks, Tin Smile I feel safer leaving now that I know you are watching over the citizens of Forumshire Very Happy

_________________
“The Lord is my shepherd. I shall not want for nothing. He makes me lie down in the green pastures. He greases up my head with oil. He gives me kung-fu in the face of my enemies. Amen”. - Tom Cullen


Just...................whatever - Page 2 Man-in-black
Ringdrotten
Ringdrotten
Mrs Bear Grylls

Posts : 4600
Join date : 2011-02-13

Back to top Go down

Just...................whatever - Page 2 Empty Re: Just...................whatever

Post by Baingil Fri Jun 24, 2011 10:42 pm

I'll keep an eye on everyone and make sure I always have popcorn within reach. Very Happy
Baingil
Baingil
Guest of Eagles

Posts : 485
Join date : 2011-02-17
Age : 28
Location : Planet Earth

Back to top Go down

Just...................whatever - Page 2 Empty Re: Just...................whatever

Post by odo banks Fri Jun 24, 2011 11:24 pm

I thought trolls were near extinct! I hope you're not doing what that photograph suggests you're doing, Ringdrotten! Mad

And to think, a Redneck in Norway, whoever would have thought it? Shocked

_________________
Respectability is never Disrespectability
odo banks
odo banks
Respectable Hobbit of Needlehole

Posts : 1487
Join date : 2011-02-14
Location : Rushock Bog

Back to top Go down

Just...................whatever - Page 2 Empty just whatever

Post by leelee Sun Jun 26, 2011 1:56 am

There has been a lull in everything and she is resting and I don't know how things will turn out. If I have anything to do about it she will pull through. But I am weary.
Orwell dear, you sound so upset in that thread, whatever it is. Are you being truthful or not when you say you would like your threads to be treated more seriously? I should so like to participate if that is so.It is not in my heart at least to be crude or vulgar, to me that is like blotting out the sun, or even silly that much.
I think life is so very very short for you little Hobbits, and I should like to touch hearts, strip away the veneer and the layers of self protection I think I see in our dear Petty( assuming he is a he and not playing the parts of Petty and Pretty, can't tell.) But if you are not serious be at least serious enough to tell me so.
I have been reading and reading you all and so far at least the person I honestly feel is the gentlest, most noble, despite all the nonsense and ugh(I do believe in crowd hysteria infecting many) and that is Ringdrotten. I cannot explain it but I feel more of a peacefulness when I 'listen' to his voice and read his words. I feel something intrinsically good when I have read each and everyone's posts despite what grieves me at times,. so I don't think I wrongly invited as many as would not be hurt in their hearts at times to come over and learn to love you like I am starting to.
Would it be possible though to put something on this site that says not under nineteen or so? That would mean the world to me. You see I was a very abused and battered child and I promised myself and God that if I lived through it all I would devote a great part of my life to the careing for , protection and healing of children and teens. And I have kept that promise. And one of the things amazingly they would share with me is how ugly they felt at hearing crude things,many explained it by saying they felt like that had been accosted or even raped(that tells you what some went thru) in their minds and hearts when they heard parents especially, but also older people they looked up to being suggestive or crude. I tried teaching them to think on things that heal the heart and mind, to go to a happy and safe place in their minds , places that were lovely and free of everything that hurt them in the real world, a safe haven, if only for a few minutes a day. And so, bearing that in mind I ask that there could at least be a warning or something where they have to say they are of age. So then even if they lie we could not feel badly. I hope , nay pray that no really little people come here. I just never want to be part of tainting or hurting a little one, even in the smallest shade. And I do not judge anyone here, you are so endearing, you make me smile. So pardon me if I have said these things, I no unkindness intended. Well back to the vigil. hugs to you all.
leelee
leelee
Free-est Spirit

Posts : 837
Join date : 2011-06-18
Location : canada

Back to top Go down

Just...................whatever - Page 2 Empty Re: Just...................whatever

Post by Orwell Sun Jun 26, 2011 2:26 am

Leelee, be sure that Petty and Pretty are no fools, nor children. There is both laughter and seriousness finely mixed in their makeup. They are what they are, but I'd imagine they'll have someting to say about your last post, and I must not interfere.

As to me, I am a 52 year old father of two, loyal husband, street cop of 20 years standing, former basketball club President, and former (in my young days) Man about town. I also have read a varied book or two - including the scriptures. I hope this gives you a picture of who I am. Please don't fear for me. I, like everyone, has his secret fears, but I don't fear my frailities, nor my trenchant pragmatism and gentleness, which in the summing of things, are probably in equal measure. I am not naive but I am still idealistic. I see good before I see bad, but I remain wary.

I have little time for pretense or mock-niceness, unless used as a theatrical device (which use I often make). The do-gooder is someone I mistrust, though a genuine Mother Theresa will always be looked upon with respect. If a person seems genuine, I take them that way. I don't tend to judge people by any other standard than that they are humans who own individual abilities and characteristics. I take folk as they come in other words, and appreciate difference. If I have a doubt as to the integrity of someone, then I get all out of sorts. I share Jesus' views on Pharisees, you see, and sometimes suspect they are hiding under the rug, but not always, as I hope I'm not paranoid. Now, if I have a fear you might be that way, then I have it out of honest doubt and not malice. In time, I might grow confident that you are what you seem, and in no way a fake. If genuine, it, of course, would be wonderful.

Why this spiel of mine? Because you keep telling us of your kindnesses to others, and look how nice you are. Would Jesus "say it" or just "do it"?

And, yes, Ringdrotten is a rum fellow!

_________________
‘The streets of Forumshire must be Dominated!’
Quoted from the Needleholeburg Address of Moderator General, Upholder of Values, Hobbit at the top of Town, Orwell, while glittering like gold.
Orwell
Orwell
Dark Presence with Gilt Edge

Posts : 8821
Join date : 2011-05-24
Age : 102
Location : Ozhobbitstan

Back to top Go down

Just...................whatever - Page 2 Empty Re: Just...................whatever

Post by Eldorion Sun Jun 26, 2011 4:06 am

leelee wrote:Would it be possible though to put something on this site that says not under nineteen or so?

I think I understand where you're coming from, but Forumshire has always had a lot of younger members. I myself am only 16, Tinuviel is about 15, and if I recall correctly Ringdrotten is about 18. I believe that Ally and Saradoc are also both in that age range as well. Baingil is also 18 and Squach is only 12. I know that we are not the tamest site but I don't think anything is posted here maliciously and GB (our other mod) and I do to try our best to keep things at a "PG-13" level, more or less. Requiring people to be 19 or older would gut this site of many of its most active participants.
Eldorion
Eldorion
You're Gonna Carry That Weight

Posts : 23311
Join date : 2011-02-13
Age : 26
Location : Maryland, United States

https://purl.org/tolkien

Back to top Go down

Just...................whatever - Page 2 Empty Re: Just...................whatever

Post by Orwell Sun Jun 26, 2011 4:31 am

I have taken the time to read your last post again, leelee. I did not mention it before, but in regard to my children, they are no stranger to the real world. It exists. I have protected them, sometimes by allowing them to experience things like South Park and Family Guy, that kind of thing, where they have been confronted by exaggerated human behavior, but human behavior none the less. (No, South Park is not the totality of my wife's and my own educating!) They are not hung up at all, but know that it can be no good thing to be raped. They knew at a young age what it is. They know what respecting others actually is. I fear "uninformed" children, more than kids who are allowed to have some knowledge of the real world, including naughty jokes. Further, I worry that "uninformed" children might more be more likely to grow up and kill anyone they disapproved of if they could (God as their witness, no doubt). You can't hide kids from the real world forever. Oh yes, over protected children are often, in my experience, the most vulnerable.

_________________
‘The streets of Forumshire must be Dominated!’
Quoted from the Needleholeburg Address of Moderator General, Upholder of Values, Hobbit at the top of Town, Orwell, while glittering like gold.
Orwell
Orwell
Dark Presence with Gilt Edge

Posts : 8821
Join date : 2011-05-24
Age : 102
Location : Ozhobbitstan

Back to top Go down

Just...................whatever - Page 2 Empty Re: Just...................whatever

Post by Pettytyrant101 Sun Jun 26, 2011 1:20 pm

leelee you seem nice and you are a new member and goodness knows we need them so I am trying to keep a lid on the crabbit here (no promises however!).

You say; "Would it be possible though to put something on this site that says not under nineteen or so?........You see I was a very abused and battered child and I promised ..... I would devote a great part of my life to the careing for , protection and healing of children and teens."
I cannot read that in any other fashion than you are saying the content of this forum could cause harm to children. And with that I could not be in a more profound disagreement. I would in fact argue the opposite. This is a place where people of all ages and sexes (and colour doesn't even register on this forum fortunetly) meet to talk and share. We all have our vews and our opinions and we sometimes disagree, what a child would find here is how to do that amicably, often with a sense of humour, but most importantly how to tolerate other peoples views, how to articulate your own and how to do so in a manner which is respectful to the other person.
On subject matter it is rare for something to be said which is an outright offense (unless its delibrately being done as a debating tactic), in fact I cannot think of a single occasion where this has been the case in all my time here, although there have been the odd time when the intended humour or satire has not come across and caused confusion (quickly corrected). Sometimes people will (myself included) link to things on youtube which may not be suitable for minors, but these are always flagged up as such for content by the poster. I prefer choice to reside with the parent not with the Admin (no offence Eldo but I supect you may agree on this point). There are no links to sexual sites, videos, snuff movies, or worse people trying to sell us stuff on here.
I take no small offence in the claim that what we post here is in some form harmful to children. We have a few youngsters on here (and more young at heart) and they are treated as valuable members of our community and their contributions always welcomed and responded to just as they would be to any one else. Age is no barrier here but nor is youth something to be talked down to. No one ever benefited from ignorance (except perhaps Eve and I think the serpent was right on that one).

You also say; "they would share with me is how ugly they felt at hearing crude things,many explained it by saying they felt like that had been accosted or even raped... in their minds and hearts when they heard parents especially, but also older people they looked up to being suggestive or crude."

To suggest that making comments which could be construed as crude or rude is equal in any fashion whatsoever to being raped (mentally or otherwise thats a heck of a strong word) is a statement so preosterous that it makes me doubt your tales of care work at all. As someone who does work in care and always has this comment is crass beyond belief, not at all helpful and frankly deeply insulting.

Regards myself and Pretty- we are as we are, as we choose to be here. You'll just have to accept it at that, we don't come with explanations just what we post.

I'll be in the pub. Evil or Very Mad

_________________
Pure Publications, The Tower of Lore and the Former Admin's Office are Reasonably Proud to Present-



A Green And Pleasant Land

Compiled and annotated by Eldorion.


- get your copy here for a limited period- free*

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1yjYiz8nuL3LqJ-yP9crpDKu_BH-1LwJU/view



*Pure Publications reserves the right to track your usage of this publication, snoop on your home address, go through your bins and sell personal information on to the highest bidder.
Warning may contain Wholesome Tales
Pettytyrant101
Pettytyrant101
Crabbitmeister

Posts : 44261
Join date : 2011-02-14
Age : 49
Location : Scotshobbitland

Back to top Go down

Just...................whatever - Page 2 Empty Re: Just...................whatever

Post by Eldorion Sun Jun 26, 2011 3:31 pm

I have to agree with Petty, although he is (as is his wont Razz ) more blunt than I am. I don't want anyone to have to leave this site because I think that having a multitude of different opinions is part of what makes it such a strong community, but I can fully understand why Petty feels insulted. I hope that you will feel comfortable staying on the forum despite the lack of age restrictions though, leelee. Smile
Eldorion
Eldorion
You're Gonna Carry That Weight

Posts : 23311
Join date : 2011-02-13
Age : 26
Location : Maryland, United States

https://purl.org/tolkien

Back to top Go down

Just...................whatever - Page 2 Empty Re: Just...................whatever

Post by Saradoc Sun Jun 26, 2011 6:28 pm

I'm always getting insulted- in fact I'm just about to go and have a chat with Orwell about calling me a Talking Donkey- but compared to what else is on offer on the internet, I think this forum has a perfect mix of series discussion, popular culture, not so popular culture, and of course it is always fun reading or looking at other people's creative outputs! Very Happy

_________________
King Arthur: The Lady of the Lake, her arm clad in the purest shimmering samite, held aloft Excalibur from the bosom of the water, signifying by divine providence that I, Arthur, was to carry Excalibur. That is why I am your king.

Dennis the Peasant: Listen. Strange women lying in ponds distributing swords is no basis for a system of government. Supreme executive power derives from a mandate from the masses, not from some farcical aquatic ceremony.
Saradoc
Saradoc
Ringwinner

Posts : 268
Join date : 2011-02-14
Age : 27

Back to top Go down

Just...................whatever - Page 2 Empty just whatever

Post by leelee Tue Jun 28, 2011 3:22 am

Congratulations on the return of your body of writings since 2008. Where are Durin and Hail Manwe and the others, are they coming back?


A couple of things I read today so , well whatever. What do you think of this:




Chinese scientists have managed to get cows to produce human milk, and may have the new brew in China's grocery stores in three years.

A herd of 300 cows has been genetically modified (GM), and once the government is sure it's safe, more cows will be bred with the ability to producehuman milk. Shocked After killing all those babies with melamine and just too many things to even discuss, this is horrifying to me. When genetics go wrong, it is a death dealing thing to human kind in my opinion. yikes.

Also , right now in New York City there is an adorable four year old girl from Australia who has been painting ( it seems to be splash painting or something) and she is now on exhibit and some of her work is selling for thirty thousand u.s. a piece. I mean that is great if you can get it, only really sometimes I don't understand the art world. Surprised

leelee
leelee
Free-est Spirit

Posts : 837
Join date : 2011-06-18
Location : canada

Back to top Go down

Just...................whatever - Page 2 Empty Re: Just...................whatever

Post by Orwell Tue Jun 28, 2011 3:33 am

Just your average four year old Australian girl, leelee --- though it might indicate the materialist society they have in America. Fads come and go, and maybe money in the pocket that might have done equally well to be put put into American Health Care...

_________________
‘The streets of Forumshire must be Dominated!’
Quoted from the Needleholeburg Address of Moderator General, Upholder of Values, Hobbit at the top of Town, Orwell, while glittering like gold.
Orwell
Orwell
Dark Presence with Gilt Edge

Posts : 8821
Join date : 2011-05-24
Age : 102
Location : Ozhobbitstan

Back to top Go down

Just...................whatever - Page 2 Empty Re: Just...................whatever

Post by Eldorion Tue Jun 28, 2011 3:37 am

leelee wrote:Congratulations on the return of your body of writings since 2008. Where are Durin and Hail Manwe and the others, are they coming back?

We tried to find as many people as we could after the forum merger, but a lot of people were inactive and if they tried to come back at all, just drifted away again after seeing that the old forum was gone. Sad I know that Paul Erickson (The Wobbit A Parody) found us through a search engine months after the fact, but a lot of other people have just slipped into the ether.

Also , right now in New York City there is an adorable four year old girl from Australia who has been painting ( it seems to be splash painting or something) and she is now on exhibit and some of her work is selling for thirty thousand u.s. a piece. I mean that is great if you can get it, only really sometimes I don't understand the art world. Surprised

Well, whenever I see modern art I always say "that looks like something a four-year-old would make", so... Laughing
Eldorion
Eldorion
You're Gonna Carry That Weight

Posts : 23311
Join date : 2011-02-13
Age : 26
Location : Maryland, United States

https://purl.org/tolkien

Back to top Go down

Just...................whatever - Page 2 Empty just whatever

Post by leelee Tue Jun 28, 2011 5:07 pm

Eldorion, why do you use the maple leaf here. In just a few days it is our Canada Day and of course the maple leaf is on our flag. It makes me feel rather wierd, why do you not use your awesome american eagle , it is Middle-Earthy?

And WOO HOO, you have under my avy Elf from Rivendell. Of course I am from Lothlorien, but who cares, how wonderful. I felt rather itchy being a Shireling and all that. shiver. We are after all more comfortable in our own skin and endearing and lovely though I view Hobbit Folk, it is lovely being an elf elf elf once more. Laughing
leelee
leelee
Free-est Spirit

Posts : 837
Join date : 2011-06-18
Location : canada

Back to top Go down

Just...................whatever - Page 2 Empty Re: Just...................whatever

Post by Eldorion Tue Jun 28, 2011 5:31 pm

leelee wrote:Eldorion, why do you use the maple leaf here. In just a few days it is our Canada Day and of course the maple leaf is on our flag. It makes me feel rather wierd, why do you not use your awesome american eagle , it is Middle-Earthy?

Baingil and I were going for a nature and plant-oriented theme, and the maple leaf was just one of the types of leaves that worked its way into the design. Smile To be honest, I don't think either of us had Canada in mind when we were looking at different leaf designs.

And WOO HOO, you have under my avy Elf from Rivendell. Of course I am from Lothlorien, but who cares, how wonderful. I felt rather itchy being a Shireling and all that. shiver. We are after all more comfortable in our own skin and endearing and lovely though I view Hobbit Folk, it is lovely being an elf elf elf once more. Laughing

If you want, I can give you the custom title "Elf of Lothlorien" or something like that. Wink
Eldorion
Eldorion
You're Gonna Carry That Weight

Posts : 23311
Join date : 2011-02-13
Age : 26
Location : Maryland, United States

https://purl.org/tolkien

Back to top Go down

Page 2 of 40 Previous  1, 2, 3 ... 21 ... 40  Next

Back to top


 
Permissions in this forum:
You cannot reply to topics in this forum