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Post by Pettytyrant101 Wed Dec 25, 2013 9:38 pm

:facepalm:

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Post by malickfan Wed Dec 25, 2013 9:55 pm

Figgs that is exactly what I'm talking about! Everyone hates the new Doctor, the hates his replacement even more. I loathed Matt Smith in his short appearance in End of Time, but I've come to really like the guy-everyone hated Doctor Who TV film, but everyone went nuts over Mcgann's return.

Moffat, Capaldi and Coleman have all indicated than a ten second cameo shot months before Capaldi really started work on the series is nothing to go on, 12 is basically caught in flux from his regeneration his prior mannerisms and mood are still carrying over.

-Did you judge Tennant based soley on 'New Teeth!, that's weird!'?

Personally I think I love 12 already.

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Post by Mrs Figg Wed Dec 25, 2013 10:10 pm

Figgs that is exactly what I'm talking about! Everyone hates the new Doctor, the hates his replacement even more. Malick

Well I didnt hate Eccleston and I didnt hate Tennant so your theory doesnt fit my experience of new Doctors. I adored both of them from the moment I saw them. I dont have some inbuilt hatred of new Doctors at all and I find it odd to even think like that. I didnt like Matt Smiths Doctor because I didnt like the persona much, it was a bit lightweight to begin with but he grew on me towards the Clara episodes. As far as Capaldi goes, what I saw I didnt like, gut instinct, it looked wrong, but it may change as we get to know his character
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Post by Tinuviel Thu Dec 26, 2013 4:48 am

I wasn't a fan of the episode. I felt like moffat tried to cram too much into one episode and pull emotional stakes out of thin air. It should have been him and Clara, not all the other stuff. I genuinely miss RTD's stories and writing. This doesn't hold a candle to end of time, IMO.

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Post by Pettytyrant101 Thu Dec 26, 2013 4:55 am

Funny how differently people see things- I really dont like End of Time. It has a terrible plot, and I would much rather rewatch last night ep that have to sit through End of Time again, by the time Tennant finally regens I was sick to death of RTD dragging it out for so long and milking all the emotion clean out of it.

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Post by Pettytyrant101 Thu Dec 26, 2013 7:27 am

My spoiler filled review of Time of the Doctor-


Spoiler:

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Post by azriel Thu Dec 26, 2013 10:31 am

I watched "WHO" last night & even though I didnt want Matt smith to go, there was nothing else left for him. To see him aging was sad, his loyalty to the people of "Christmas" was touching, Clara popping in & out of his life kept him going I think. But that last spurt when the Daleks were right on top of him reminded why I liked Matt so much as this Dr, & why I still dont want him to go. But, Fiction reflects life, & now we have Capaldi. My first thought was the look on Clara's face, she LOOKED like she was thinking "wow, old guy". It has been a good year for Who lovers, I caught up with "Who at the Proms" which I missed earlier, & felt all emotional, I wish I'd been there ! Like this old 2013 year,we gotta let go of the old & try to welcome the new. I hope Capaldi gets me over the loss of Smith reasonably quickly & injects something original & "of his own" into the show.

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Post by Mrs Figg Thu Dec 26, 2013 10:38 am

My review
Spoiler:
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Post by azriel Thu Dec 26, 2013 10:52 am

Fair points on all of that Figgy ! I remember seeing a scoop where Matt & Co said it was going to be (this episode) spectacular etc, So thats what I was expecting. It wasnt spectacular to me, I just like Matt & will miss him. For me there were one or two "wot if" moments, I dont think I ever felt that this was meant to be the end of it all, *gets hold of anyone by shirt collar & shakes them hard* 50 yrs of WHO & its meant to be the end ?? Its got to be more nail bitting than the episode I saw. I do think the story was weak for that. And the only reason we have a new Dr ? Time Lords slipped in a bit of magic dust. So thats ok then. I dont see the point of a terrifying omen of doom by saying there cannot be anymore Dr's if when it suits them Time Lords get all Pixie dust on us. Takes away the fear & dread. But I am glad as I dont want Dr Who to ever end but, the stories have to tighter, edgier, less schmaltzie also please ! Leave the adoration to me, I want "assistants,associates" to be with more "grip" ?

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Post by Pettytyrant101 Thu Dec 26, 2013 3:47 pm

Im not sure why you have a go at Clara as you do Figg given how often Rose runs off and abandons her mum (hell she gets Mickey arrested and ostracized on suspicion of her abduction and  murder without giving him a second thought to run off with the Doctor- so you seem to operate a bit of a double standard here- I mean- leaving your family on xmas day to go off with the Doctor- or leaving your family and your boyfriend to think youve been abducted and murdered? Which would you say was worse?)

Azriel- whoever was in charge of the show when the regen limit was reached was going to have to deal with it by slight of hand one way or the other- the choice was between Moffats solution which has been the entire 11 run in the building, or making something up in the last minute with a line of dialogue and hoping noone notices like RTD used to do. I prefer Moffats approach to address the issue properly over a long period. (The Time Lord Council has always been able to give out regen cycles- hell they gave a whole new cycle to the Master in the Five Doctors just for doing them a favour so Moff didnt just make that idea up, its long standing Who canon- the trick was having Time Lords about to award it)

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Post by Mrs Figg Thu Dec 26, 2013 4:08 pm

oh dear heres the old 'Rose did it' argument' because I dared to critisize Clara. Rose was years ago, we are talking about Clara, not some tit for tat whos assistant is bestest stuff. In any case ALL the Doctors assistants run off to be with him, thats the Whole point, apart from Donna and she didnt have much choice on her wedding day. I am talking about the fact most assistants run off with him if they have the world to save, something important, but Clara only needs him to lie to her parents and cook a Turkey, hardly reason to leave them in the lurch.
I thought Moffat was supposed to be using the plot device of a Christmasy background to tell this story? and what does it say about Christmas? It says that in Moffat world family is not as important as the Doctor, he comes first second and third. That the assistants are just mindless puppets dangling to his tune ready to dump relatives on Christmas Day. Its unpleasant.
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Post by Pettytyrant101 Thu Dec 26, 2013 4:34 pm

Its got nothing to do with you critiziig Clara- as Ive said before I am not yet sold on her as a character (although I thought giving her a job in Day and now showing her family is a step in the right direction) it has to do with the apparent double standard you apply when talking about Moff writing in contrast to RTD- you have a bad habit of complaining about stuff Moff writes in Who that RTD was much worse at- Clara leaving her family on xmas day to go with the Doctor is one of them- RTD has Rose do much, much worse in her treatment of her family and her selfishness regards the Doctor and Ive never heard you claim its a sign RTD hates all womankind. Moff has her leave the dinner table and you have her pegged down as an example of Moffats blatant sexism and disregard for all women- its unbelievable.

As to using xmas as a background- its the story of a person who has God like powers to move in space and time, sacrifices his life to save the lives of strangers, dies and is resurrected- sounds pretty xmassy to me.  Shrugging

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Post by Tinuviel Thu Dec 26, 2013 5:19 pm

For the longest time I loved moffat, but this year, or season rather, I feel like he lost his grip, and got kind of list in his own vision. The storylines were hard to follow and left me confused one episode to the next. I liked the over arching storylines because they gave him a sense of structure that he could create from. This whole pulling stories out of a hat idea didn't work for me. Sure the Clara impossible girl thing was a storyline, but it picked up in the middle of the series.
I don't know, maybe it's just me growing out of it or the show getting tired, but I'm not loving where who is headed

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Post by Mrs Figg Thu Dec 26, 2013 5:19 pm

Pettytyrant101 wrote:Its got nothing to do with you critiziig Clara- as Ive said before I am not yet sold on her as a character (although I thought giving her a job in Day and now showing her family is a step in the right direction) it has to do with the apparent double standard you apply when talking about Moff writing in contrast to RTD- you have a bad habit of complaining about stuff Moff writes in Who that RTD was much worse at- Clara leaving her family on xmas day to go with the Doctor is one of them- RTD has Rose do much, much worse in her treatment of her family and her selfishness regards the Doctor and Ive never heard you claim its a sign RTD hates all womankind. Moff has her leave the dinner table and you have her pegged down as an example of Moffats blatant sexism and disregard for all women- its unbelievable.

As to using xmas as a background- its the story of a person who has God like powers to move in space and time, sacrifices his life to save the lives of strangers, dies and is resurrected- sounds pretty xmassy to me.  Shrugging

someones got his knickers in a twist. 'Bad Habit' my arse
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Post by Mrs Figg Thu Dec 26, 2013 5:51 pm

What I cant stand in Moffat World is the reliance of over confusing plot devices with arbitrary rules and get-out-of-jail-free cards. the best timey wimey story of nuWho is probably Father's Day where Rose goes back and saves her father from a car accident that happened when she was a baby. It's clear, strong storytelling she makes a bad choice, there are terrible consequences, and in the end a sacrifice is required to set things on track again. That episode adds many deep layers to Rose as a character, how she has been damaged by loss and how much her family means to her, and also gives us an understanding on Ecclestons mix of rage and compassion. He takes second stage to Rose, he doesnt try to dominate the scene with bombastic ranting as Smith does, the Doctor is a quiet and sad witness to the unfolding pain and loss. We haven't had a time-travel story as clear and satisfying as that in years.
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Post by Norc Thu Dec 26, 2013 5:57 pm

omg. the christmas special.. Shocked
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Post by Pettytyrant101 Thu Dec 26, 2013 7:13 pm

Ok lets call it a trend Figg- there is trend since Moffat took over of you accusing him of various things from rampant sexism to being unable to write when there are far worse more glaring examples in the RTD era you seem entirely blind to.

"but I'm not loving where who is headed"- Tinuvuel

But thats the thing with Who, constant state of change and flux, it has no heading and can just easily go off in another direction as stay the same.

In my own experience I drifted away  from the show during the late 5th Doctor period and didnt watch regularly again till NuWho started- and I drifted away from NUWho during the 10 era and had to go back and rewatch a load of them as I gave up all hope during that point.
For me 11 and Moff era Who is the closest it has got to recapturing the pleasure I got out the show as a kid.

Capaldi starts with a clean slate though- no story arcs left over- no Silence, no Amy, no Church, no Oldest Question, no Cracks in Time, no destroyed Gallifrey, no Trenzalore- all resolved, so the future can go anywhere now.

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Post by Pettytyrant101 Thu Dec 26, 2013 7:22 pm

deleted scene-


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Post by Pettytyrant101 Thu Dec 26, 2013 7:23 pm

Behind the scenes making of-




Overnight figures of 8.8 million so prob end up abuo 11 -12 million consolidated- pretty dam good given the BBC decided to put it up against the xmas episode of Coronation Street (which it beat).

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Post by Mrs Figg Thu Dec 26, 2013 7:35 pm

'Ok lets call it a trend Figg- there is trend since Moffat took over of you accusing him of various things from rampant sexism to being unable to write when there are far worse more glaring examples in the RTD ..

Call it what you like petal.
The rampant sexism is demonstratedly evident to anyone who doesnt have a vested interest in defending Moffat at any cost. Its not just me who sees the sexism in his writing, there are literally thousands of people who agree with me.
He is also a bad and lazy writer, fact.
I dont really care if you dont like my opinions, if you take offence that I dislike Moffat the Muppet its not really my problem. I will continue giving my opinion despite your comments and belittling of my opinion. Is it a 'trend'? probably.


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Post by Pettytyrant101 Thu Dec 26, 2013 7:50 pm

The rampant sexism is demonstratedly evident to anyone who doesnt have a vested interest in defending Moffat at any cost. - Mrs Figg

I assume you dont actually read my episode reviews if you think I defend him at any cost- if something doesn't work for me I say so.


"Its not just me who sees the sexism in his writing, there are literally thousands of people who agree with me. "

Given I lurk on a number of Who forums I am aware of the accusations against him, and as with other things in life I have always found those argument not good enough, and the arguments against stronger.

Nor do I see evidence of it in his other writing, whether thats Press Gang, Coupling or Sherlock (although in my review of Scandal in Bohemia I did criticise the change to the ending)

"He is also a bad and lazy writer, fact."

That must explain why he is showrunner on the BBC's two most successful world wide drama products and one of the busiest men in television. He is just so lazy.  Rolling Eyes 


"I will continue giving my opinion despite your snide comments and belittling of my opinion."

I wasn't belittling your opinion, I was disagreeing with it and pointing out what seem to me to be inconsistency in your view point, such as your seeming blind spot to when similar events occur in RTD era Who and passed you by without comment, yet you are all over Moffat even if he does something much lesser (like Clara leaving her family during xmas whilst ignoring Rose leaving her mother to think she has been abducted and possibly murdered, and her boyfriend to be intimidated by Rose's mothers friends and repeatedly questioned by the Police over her disappearance- yet apparently Clara doing what she did is an example of what an uncaring nasty female she is who only thinks of the Doctor and herself, and what Rose does is somehow a shining beacon of feminism- I dont understand how you can view these things in the way you do beyond it being a personal bias for some reason against Moffat)

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Post by Mrs Figg Thu Dec 26, 2013 7:52 pm

am I bovvered? do I look bovvered?  Laughing 
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Post by Pettytyrant101 Thu Dec 26, 2013 7:53 pm

Laughing  {{{and xmas isnt xmas without a good fight! I should have known I could rely on you Figg  Twisted Evil  Kissing  santa drunken }}}}}

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Post by Mrs Figg Thu Dec 26, 2013 7:56 pm

Kissing  hey this is our last Fight of the year.

(((maybe  Twisted Evil ))))
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Post by malickfan Thu Dec 26, 2013 7:57 pm

I'm taking no sides in this argument, I agree with both of you to an extent. And I how no doubt at all Capaldi has the potential to be brilliant, depending on the writing.

BUT I do think Davies and Moffat's problems were worsened by them having all the control-why does the showrunner, executive producer and head writer have to be the same person? And why is it always a Bloke?

I think separating the duties to different people could give the team more energy and breathing room.

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The Thorin: An Unexpected Rewrite December 2012 (I was on the money apparently)
The Tauriel: Desolation of Canon December 2013 (Accurate again!)
The Sod-it! : Battling my Indifference December 2014 (You know what they say, third time's the charm)

Well, that was worth the wait wasn't it  Suspect


I think what comes out of a pig's rear end is more akin to what Peejers has given us-Azriel 20/9/2014
malickfan
malickfan
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Posts : 4828
Join date : 2013-09-10
Age : 30
Location : The (Hamp)shire, England

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