Re: Petty's Purist LotR Edits [3]

by Bluebottle Sun Sep 07, 2014 3:58 pm

Not to drag up an old argument, but.. Oh, all right. Perhaps to drag up an old argument. Razz

While reading the Lothlórien part of Fellowship a little while ago I found it interesting to note that Petty might actuallly have some support for his "green light in Lothlórien" thing, from Tolkien himself.

The sun was sinking behind the mountains, and the shadows were deepening in the woods, when they went on again. Their paths now went into thickets where the dusk had already gathered. Night came beneath the trees as they walked, and the Elves uncovered their silver lamps.

Suddenly they came out into the open again and found themselves under a pale evening sky pricked by a few early stars. There was a wide treeless space before them, running in a great circle and bending away on either hand. Beyond it was a deep fosse lost in soft shadow, but the grass upon its brink was green, as if it glowed still in memory of the sun that had gone. Upon the further side there rose to a great height a green wall encircling a green hill thronged with mallorn-trees taller than any they had yet seen in all the land. Their height could not be guessed, but they stood up in the twilight like living towers. In their, many-tiered branches and amid their ever-moving leaves countless lights were gleaming, green and gold and silver.

by bungobaggins Sun Sep 07, 2014 4:01 pm

Well, yeah. I mean, after all, a forest is green, not blue. Rolling Eyes

by Bluebottle Sun Sep 07, 2014 4:12 pm

Well, malorn trees have silver or gold leaves depending on the season. Shrugging

But, yeah, I'm just the messenger.

by bungobaggins Sun Sep 07, 2014 4:35 pm

Well either way Jackson is wrong, because forests aren't blue. Razz

by Mrs Figg Sun Sep 07, 2014 4:37 pm

well trees are green but twilight and starlight is bluish. I have never seen a spooky green light anywhere, even in a forest, the light isnt green. Once the light goes it goes dark blue, midnight blue and then black. i dont think its even possible to have green light, maybe if you were in the Amazon standing under a large green plant in full sunlight you might get greenish reflections, but the light itself isnt green.

by Bluebottle Sun Sep 07, 2014 5:47 pm

Yeah, though going by the book:

The sun was sinking behind the mountains, and the shadows were deepening in the woods, when they went on again. Their paths now went into thickets where the dusk had already gathered. Night came beneath the trees as they walked, and the Elves uncovered their silver lamps.

Suddenly they came out into the open again and found themselves under a pale evening sky pricked by a few early stars. There was a wide treeless space before them, running in a great circle and bending away on either hand. Beyond it was a deep fosse lost in soft shadow, but the grass upon its brink was green, as if it glowed still in memory of the sun that had gone. Upon the further side there rose to a great height a green wall encircling a green hill thronged with mallorn-trees taller than any they had yet seen in all the land. Their height could not be guessed, but they stood up in the twilight like living towers. In their, many-tiered branches and amid their ever-moving leaves countless lights were gleaming, green and gold and silver.

So the book supplies both natural and artificial sources for green light after sunset. Shrugging

by azriel Sun Sep 07, 2014 6:47 pm

Its the same old thing, Elves get bored, lay on a show, eat a few mushrooms & this is what you get

Petty's Purist LotR Edits [3] - Page 39 Laser-cannon_zps0d7b3355

Petty's Purist LotR Edits [3] - Page 39 Laser-cannon_zps0d7b3355

Petty's Purist LotR Edits [3] - Page 39 Elfdisco1_zps32f10437

by **Orwell** Mon Sep 08, 2014 12:34 pm

Better than PJ's Elves in The Hobbit, methinks.

by Pettytyrant101 Mon Sep 08, 2014 2:03 pm

Good work Blue- of course I was thinking about that passage all the time, honest.

by Mrs Figg Mon Sep 08, 2014 4:07 pm

by Mrs Figg Fri Sep 12, 2014 4:52 pm

from Fellowship.
Fog on the barrow Downs
chapter 8

'as he lay there, thinking and getting a hold on himself, he noticed all at once that the darkness was slowly giving way: a pale greenish light was growing around him.'

I rest my case. Green light is spooky. NOT Elven.

by Pettytyrant101 Fri Sep 12, 2014 8:29 pm

yes but thats spooky sickly green, not green under leaves green. Nod

by Mrs Figg Fri Sep 12, 2014 10:20 pm

green light is synonymous with spooky. As I said. I rest my case, its irrefutable. Tolkien himself sees it this way. The Barrow Downs had spooky green light, he could have chosen blue, but blue is for starlight. Nod

by Pettytyrant101 Fri Sep 12, 2014 11:06 pm

by Forest Shepherd Sat Sep 13, 2014 12:53 am

Pfft, blue of starlight.
Starlight is white. And anyway, putting some weird-ass blue tint on everything inside of a forest just doesn't sit well with me. Sounds more like Star Wars than Tolkien.

by Ringdrotten Sat Sep 13, 2014 1:33 am

There's a difference between spooky green and rich green, at least there is in Fjordian - green is generally considered a beautiful and wonderful colour when put in context with trees and forests in Fjordlandia. Perhaps this is my frustration with Jackson lately speaking, but I agree with Petty - green for Lothlorien works Nod

by Bluebottle Sat Sep 13, 2014 2:14 pm

Yeah. I think that's just it, Ringo. There are shades of green. Just as there are shades of grey. And even white.. probably. And it can be a very positive colour.

Though perhaps Figg felt the shade of green used was of the spooky variety or that the context was wrong? Shrugging

by Pettytyrant101 Sat Sep 13, 2014 2:23 pm

Its just the right shade of green Blue.
Which is an odd sentence. Very Happy

by Bluebottle Sat Sep 13, 2014 2:43 pm

First grey, now green. An even blue.

This place is a veritable smorgasbord of colour.

by David H Sat Sep 13, 2014 4:38 pm

Bluebottle wrote:First grey, now green. An even blue.

This place is a veritable smorgasbord of colour.

Gold or golden is another favorite debate, whether arguing the colour of dragons or the colour of elven hair (I particularly enjoyed that one! Very Happy

)

by Bluebottle Sat Sep 13, 2014 8:57 pm

Not that I begrudge you your debates in any way, but I do struggle a bit to see the object of them.

There are grey horses and there are white horses, there are gold and golden coloured dragons and elven hair, there is green light and there is green light.

What's there really to debate? scratch

by azriel Sat Sep 13, 2014 9:29 pm

Bluebottle wrote:Not that I begrudge you your debates in any way, but I do struggle a bit to see the object of them.

There are grey horses and there are white horses, there are gold and golden coloured dragons and elven hair, there is green light and there is green light.

What's there really to debate?

I beg your pudding ! You are skating on very thin ice here Blue Very Happy

Theres TONS to debate pffft ! Rolling Eyes

tons & tons & tons, for example....... take...Grey ! Laughing

by David H Sat Sep 13, 2014 10:16 pm

Well said, Az! Nod

As to the object of debates, Blue, it's all about the Socratic Method. Through the exploration of Colour in Tolkien's writings, Elthir, I, and others have been attempting to plumb the depths of a great mystery, and determine the True Essence of Greyness. study

by Bluebottle Sun Sep 14, 2014 12:33 am

Ah, so it's simply a mental exercise to further knowledge and deeper understanding. I can't very well berate that, can I.

Though it's good to question oneself even when questioning, no?

by Bluebottle Sun Sep 14, 2014 12:35 am

Anyway..

“There are so mane shades of gray."
"Nope."
"Pardon?"
"Thers's no grays, only white that's got grubby. ...”
― Terry Pratchett, Carpe Jugulum