All New Who

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Post by Mrs Figg Fri Dec 29, 2023 6:40 pm

I also noticed the heavy-handed gay undercurrents. It was casually mentioned by the dark-skinned dude and the lead actor didn't so much as raise an eyebrow, as you said in those days you could end up with life imprisonment or hanging for homosexuality. But i did enjoy the Holmes cameo, the actor looked just like my idea of Sherlock.
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Post by Pettytyrant101 Fri Dec 29, 2023 6:49 pm

{{ Yeah he was good casting for the role, very much had the look of the original Strand Magazine illustrations of Holmes I thought but a bit younger, as this is set before, it's just Holmes and actual supernatural don't really mix. But it is interesting he didn't change the actual dialogue and it works as Holmes dialogue. Although the line Holmes said about there being enough in the world without spooks or something similar is from the Holmes books, not this short story, but I think it's the only line he makes up in that section, the rest is pretty much word for word off the page and it is rather, Sherlocky considering it's not him (the character has the rather wonderful yet ridiculous sounding name of Dr Plumptree Peterson) -

"Well, it's a striking chain of events. And yet, my dear fellow, you must allow that each incident in itself is capable of a more natural explanation."
"What! even my adventure of to-night?"
"Certainly. You come out with your nerves all unstrung, and your head full of this theory of yours. Some gaunt, half-famished tramp steals after you, and seeing you run, is emboldened to pursue you. Your fears and imagination do the rest."

On the homosexual thing, it's not just that it's incongruous with the time period, or even that it's the opposite of the original where the bad guy is engaged to Lee's sister, it's also the opposite of how Smith is portrayed as a super manly man's man, a sort of Victorian heterosexual masculine ideal - physically strong, athletic and capable, strong of personality and will and also intellectually solid and about to qualify as a Doctor, and certainly not the sort of man to hear the chap he's sharing rooms with is gay and not even bat an eyelid. }}

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Post by Pettytyrant101 Fri Dec 29, 2023 7:06 pm

{{ To bring this somewhat back to Who without quite leaving Gatiss' show- there is a Who easter egg in it, the 'Egyptian' scroll from the 4th Doctor classic City of Death with Scaroth on it is one of the papyrus scrolls Smith has, you never see it totally clearly but Gatiss has confirmed that's what it is and had the replica specially made, here's the original- }}

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Post by Mrs Figg Fri Dec 29, 2023 10:42 pm

cool, I never noticed that.
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Post by Pettytyrant101 Sat Dec 30, 2023 6:40 am

{{ He just can't leave his love of Who out! I think there is a Who easter egg in just about everything he has done, same with Moffat. Theres a suspiciously TARDIS like object in the background of a scene from Sherlocks Hound of the Baskervilles-

All New Who - Page 15 Images

Its always fun seeing where Who gets snuck into other stuff, did you know it's the same universe as Red Dwarf?

All New Who - Page 15 Images

And of course Hitchhikers too, not only does the TARDIS cameo on the dvd boxset menus screens but according to the 10th Doctor he knew Arthur Dent-



Who has a tendency to pop up in odd places, including it seems reality!!

11 seems to have spent some time with the Beatles-

All New Who - Page 15 Tumblr-mbrc8mn1-Vq1rrdtjso1-250

presumably due them having some trouble with Weeping Angles-

All New Who - Page 15 Imag6es

And after encountering the Doctor and Amy of course Van Gogh was going to stick a cheeky TARDIS into his painting-

All New Who - Page 15 F


And 9 seems to have made an impression on the Romans-

All New Who - Page 15 Tumblr-mbrc8mn1-Vq1rrdtjso6-400

So you never know, keep an eye out for the weird and ear out for a strange wheezing, groaning engine sound! }}

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Post by Mrs Figg Sat Dec 30, 2023 12:07 pm

cheers yay
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Post by Pettytyrant101 Sat Dec 30, 2023 12:21 pm

{{ And then of course there was the remains of a Dalek discovered in a Hampshire bog! }}

'warden Tony Brown, 70, was leading the volunteer squad clearing dumped rubbish from the pond, near Beaulieu, Hants.
“I’d just shifted a tree branch with my foot when I noticed something dark and round slowly coming up to the surface. I got the shock of my life when a Dalek head bobbed up right in front of me. It must have been down there for some time because it was covered in mould and water weed, and had quite a bit of damage. One of the dome lights was smashed, but the eye-stalk was intact and the head and neck stayed in one piece as I carefully lifted it out. We made a very thorough search of the rest of the bottom of the pond and there were definitely no alien remnants lurking. We’ve all agreed it best to keep the pond’s exact location under wraps.”- The Telegraph

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Post by Mrs Figg Sat Dec 30, 2023 5:31 pm

affraid
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Post by malickfan Wed Jan 03, 2024 7:47 pm


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Post by Pettytyrant101 Thu Jan 04, 2024 8:41 am

{{ That is terrifying in concept and execution! affraid Mind you, he still makes a better 13 than Jodie did. Mad }}

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Post by malickfan Sun Jan 07, 2024 6:10 pm

Seeing rumours Gatwa is only doing 2 seasons, series 2 is filming right now so if true we could be in the weird posistion that he could leave the role before his first season actually starts airing...

Not sure if I believe it, would RTD really sign a doctor for just 2 seasons? They are making a big deal that this is a fresh start, not sure Disney would be ok with the lead actor leaving after just 2-3 years, it looks like seasons are only going to be 8-10 episodes now so Gatwa could end up with the fewest stories since Eccleston.

On the other hand Gatwa is a young rising star with a huge profile from Sex Education/Barbie (haven't seen either myself) he also has a part in the upcoming Spielberg WW2 series Masters of The Air so maybe he'd be wise to move on and avoid typecasting whilst he is getting such good offers. I generally feel 3-5 years is the perfect length for an actor to stay in the role (I'd rather been left wanting more than them overstaying their welcome) but geting kinda bored with the 3 season and out standard, a shorter stint could be a good thing for the show and shake it up a bit.

But this all depends on the actor in question, Tom Baker stayed too long i.m.o, I grew bored with Tennant by the specials, Capaldi/Davison I'd have watched for five years and Eccleston's 1 series and out for the perfect length for his character arc. Not actually watched Gatwa's first ep yet so no idea how I'll feel...

Maybe this could be akin to Eccleston?-using a well known character actor as a short lived launching pad to bring in new viewers then following it with a actor/actress who stays longer. IIRC RTD did say Gatwa was one of the last actors they saw in the auditions and they thought they already had someone else lined up before they went with him, they deliberately held back production on Series 14 to secure him in the role, so perhaps RTD felt getting a rising star in the role whilst they could was the best idea to relaunch the show.

I think RTD has already confirmed he is storylining his 4th series right now, so I think we can assume he already has ideas for the 16th Dr if this is true. Assuming Gatwa is moving on I'm hoping for another actress, really curious to see how RTD would write a female doctor...

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Post by Mrs Figg Sun Jan 07, 2024 11:41 pm

Gatwa had a bit part in Barbie, not even a speaking role if I remember correctly, so if he thinks he is a star, I think he might be in for a disappointment. If I were him i would stay as long as possible in a bread-and-butter role. pays the rent.
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Post by Pettytyrant101 Sat Jan 13, 2024 10:08 pm


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Post by Mrs Figg Sun Jan 14, 2024 12:05 pm

I hope he doesn't. He was a forgettable Doctor. Great actor but wrong role imo. I found that Clara and Bill epoch deadly dull, only Flatline has stayed in my imagination and that wasn't because of the Doctor, it was the great companion Rigsy and the story.
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Post by Pettytyrant101 Sun Jan 14, 2024 1:57 pm

{{ There we differ very strongly Figg, best Doctor of the modern era arguably one of the best ever, and easily the best run of episodes in NuWho. World Enough and Time/Doctor Falls is the best series finale of the modern era. It's also an era blessed with by far the best Master of the modern era in Missy. It's got the best director of the modern era for all its big finales in Rachel Talalay and Gold does his best work of his entire decade plus run of composing Who.
I'd rather watch the worst episode of his era than the so called best of RTD's, who in my view didn't write a half decent series till series 4, his last, and it was only half decent as the first half of series 4 is no better than the first 3 series were.
I just finished a rewatch of the entire 12th Doctor run and coming off the back of the pathetic '60th Specials' and that Xmas special and it was like watching two completely different versions of the show, one with 12 where it was grown up and told interesting stories with layers and depth and intimate character studies, and the shallow hollow sub CBeebies of RTD with its farting aliens and baby eating goblin kings and obsession with gender.
Ill stick to Capaldi and good story telling thank you very much! }}

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Post by Mrs Figg Sun Jan 14, 2024 3:34 pm

We will have to agree to differ then. I won't be re-watching Capaldi era stuff, it bored me to tears. I dont like Missy either, Simm was way better as the Master.
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Post by Pettytyrant101 Sun Jan 14, 2024 4:36 pm

{{ Simm was a pantomime villain who bore very little resemblance to the character of classic era, he had zero depth he was just crazy ranting madman, when he wasn't Skeletor Master blasting through the air and stuffing his face with whole turkeys. He was good however when he came back for the finale of Capaldi's final series, now if he'd been written like that and given that much more reigned in, tighter controlled performance, which is so much more menacing and fitting to OG Delgado Master, during RTD era it would have been good. But sadly I, and the actor had to wait till Moffat (Simm wasn't a fan of ranting raving Master, very one note and repetitious for an actor) for his incarnation to feel like the actual Master.
And Missy's redemption arc was the perfect end for the Master arc from where it began in classic with Pertwee. For me thats the end of the Masters timeline, all other versions are before (mind you on what has come since Capaldi era, in my head cannon the show went on hiatus at the end of that series, leaving it ambiguous to the Doctor's final decision and so fate, the more I see it the more I think Moffat wrote it as a final end for the era of Who that began with classic, knowing after this it would not be the same show ever again, as it has not been). Gomez's Master has not only massive screen presence and a chilling undertone, but character growth and development to mirror the Doctors character growth and development throughout 12's era. It's the best study of the nature and character of the Doctor in the show's history, and done so skilfully as to be both revealing and yet not destroy or ruin the mystique of the character.
RTD made the Doctor 'a legend throughout space and time', the 'Lonely God', the 'Oncoming Storm' all sorts of grandiose epic titles, Moffat deconstructed that starting with 11, his hubris at the Pandorcia thinking he was so powerful just his words would send everyone scurring, not knowing he'd already put his head in their noose through sheer arrogance, to Demons Run when River lays it bare "When you began, all those years ago, sailing off to see the universe, did you ever think you'd become this? The man who can turn an army around at the mention of his name." culminating in 11's addmition to Amy that, "I'm not a hero. I really am just a madman in a box". And this breaking down of the what it means to be the Doctor carries on throughout 12's run and its concluded there too. The Doctor himself relearns what it means, not dressed up in the guise of a legend or super being, not hidden behind youth, charm, sex appeal, the Doctor in honesty, as 12 says to Davros " There's no such thing as the Doctor. I'm just a bloke in a box, telling stories. And I didn't come here because I'm ashamed. A bit of shame never hurt anyone. I came because you're sick and you asked. And because sometimes, on a good day, if I try very hard, I'm not some old Time Lord who ran away. I'm the Doctor." And it culminates in Capaldi's final episode of his last series with is speech to the Master and Missy about why he does what he does, "Winning? Is that what you think it's about? I'm not trying to win. I'm not doing this because I want to beat someone, or because I hate someone, or because, because I want to blame someone. It's not because it's fun and God knows it's not because it's easy. It's not even because it works, because it hardly ever does. I do what I do, because it's right! Because it's decent! And above all, it's kind. It's just that. Just kind."

You just don't get this sort of character development and study in RTD era, it's just surface level thrills and spills, Marvel TV, and classic Who, though it often failed at least always strived for greater depth than that behind the rubber monsters, something for me Moffat does so much better than RTD. And thats without touching on the broader themes that run throughout relating to memory, dementia, change and growth, the primitive childhood fears that drives us as adults, loss and grief.

There is so much more going in that entire Moffat era narratively when looked as a whole piece than the 'seen it once seen it all' RTD era of largely disposable, if an entertaining enough way to spend an otherwise unaccounted for 45 minutes of your day, Who. I just find little to no substance behind RTD's stories. And so little to no rewatchability.




On a less argumentative note, the Blu-ray for season 15 of classic (4th Doctor and Leela era) is out. I liked this TARDIS pairing a lot, some of my favourite 4th Doctor stories start in this run of 4th Doctor stories.

They always announce these with a trailer these days in which they usually bring back the relevant companion or Doctor if still alive and available to reprise their roles in a sort of minisode, I've found them a bit ropey in general so far, but this one, I really like, as we find out what happened to Leela after she went to Gallifrey and then got caught up in the Time War? }}


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Post by Mrs Figg Sun Jan 14, 2024 5:11 pm

I thought Missy was a pantomime villain, so it just shows how subjective it is.
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Post by Pettytyrant101 Sun Jan 14, 2024 5:35 pm

{{ That's because there is an element of pantomime villain in her performance, there has been in every version of the Master since the first, though most prominently in classic with the Ainsley Master.
The problem with the RTD Master is that it's his only character trait; constantly ranting, constantly shouting and laughing like a maniac all the time, always over-the-top chewing the scenery and absurd.
Every other Master has more to them however than just that except Chibnal era Master, which is a pretty much a carbon copy of RTD mad Master. And equally bad.
Pantomime villain is one aspect of the Master's character, it is not supposed to be the only one. }}

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Post by halfwise Tue Jan 16, 2024 2:45 am

Not that I watched much, but I thought Missy was brilliantly played. Yes a pantomime villain, but played with masterful flair. Reminded me of the Toymaker in Chitty Chitty Bang Bang.

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Post by Pettytyrant101 Tue Jan 16, 2024 4:17 am

{{ For me she successfully balances all the elements of a good Master - she is terrifyingly insane and callous, one of my favourite Missy lines that sums that up "I used to burn entire cities to the ground, just to see the pretty patterns the smoke made" and she kills with -over-the-top casual glee, that's the pantomime villain aspect but she never takes too it far, it's over the top yet controlled which is why she is scary.



Yet at the same time she manages to create that bond of being the Doctor's oldest, and best, friend.





And then she combines the two, and paired with what in my view is the best acting team to ever be in the show at the same time - Capaldi, Coleman and Gomez, you get captivating magic-



Her performance is one for which the adjective 'delicious' was invented. It is delicious to watch and from all accounts Gomez had a delightful time doing it. }}

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Post by Pettytyrant101 Sat Jan 20, 2024 5:39 pm

{{ Looks like new companion Millie Gibson is out at end of series one and it's another new companion for series 2.
What's interesting here is not her leaving after only one series, RTD never did do long companion stories with the Doctor, Rose only got 2 full series, though she does continually and annoyingly keep popping back up, Martha got 1, and Donna only got 1. So that's not unusual. What is, is how it's being reported in the press, under headlines like - "Millie Gibson dropped from Doctor Who".
Dropped is not what the press usually say when a companion goes, the usual press adjective is 'leaving' or 'exiting' at a push, dropped is nodding in the direction of sacked. Rather intriguing. }}

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All New Who - Page 15 Empty Re: All New Who

Post by malickfan Sat Jan 20, 2024 11:13 pm

From what I've read Gibson has been seen on set filming for at least a couple of Series 2 episodes so it looks like she will be leaving early in the series (then perhaps reappearing in the finale), I don't think she's in the next xmas special either, whether this was RTD's plans all along isn't clear, as Petty says he liked to bring in new companions every series, but it does seem a bit odd to write her out so early/midway through a series.

There were rumours a few months back that Gibson was struggling with the long hours/demands of night shoots and she is only 18/19 so very young for a co-leading role in such a big production, perhaps it hasn't worked out the way they wanted it to.

We'll have to wait and see.

More interesting to me is that we still don't have any firm idea of Gatwa's future as the Doctor, as far as I can tell he is only contracted for two years so far and they are in the midst of filming series 2 right now...perhaps Gibson's departure is also covering up Gatwa's...

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All New Who - Page 15 Empty Re: All New Who

Post by Pettytyrant101 Sat Jan 20, 2024 11:42 pm

{{ We could end up in the weird position where both the new companion and new Doctor have both filmed their series and left before anyone has seen the first episode of it yet. }}

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All New Who - Page 15 Empty Re: All New Who

Post by Mrs Figg Sun Jan 21, 2024 1:54 pm

I read that Disney is pushing for a 'diverse' companion, namely the Asian actress from Andor. Might be wrong.
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