HotD
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HotD
by Forest Shepherd Fri Aug 19, 2022 10:49 pm
It's starting soon right? I figured it should have it's own thread.
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"The earth was rushing past like a river or a sea below him. Trees and water, and green grass, hurried away beneath. A great roar of wild animals rose as they rushed over the Zoological Gardens, mixed with a chattering of monkeys and a screaming of birds; but it died away in a moment behind them. And now there was nothing but the roofs of houses, sweeping along like a great torrent of stones and rocks. Chimney-pots fell, and tiles flew from the roofs..."
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Re: HotD
by halfwise Fri Aug 19, 2022 10:52 pm
Good call, though I will probably watch it the way I did GoT: wait for it to trickle down to netflix. May be tempted to buy a month of HBO and binge watch once it gets going, though. This thread may help me break down and pay for it.
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Re: HotD
by halfwise Sun Aug 21, 2022 5:52 pm
Critics have got to see the season before the first episode airs, and are split - though to be fair they are split mainly because they can't help but compare it to GoT. I look forward to see reviews here of those who get HBO.
https://www.cinemablend.com/game-of-thrones-news/house-of-the-dragon-reviews-are-in-and-critics-do-not-agree-about-hbos-game-of-thrones-prequel
https://www.cinemablend.com/game-of-thrones-news/house-of-the-dragon-reviews-are-in-and-critics-do-not-agree-about-hbos-game-of-thrones-prequel
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Re: HotD
by Lancebloke Sun Aug 21, 2022 5:54 pm
I think I will watch as the episodes come out. If anything like GoT it is very hard to avoid spoilers and I haven't read Fire and Blood yet.
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Re: HotD
by Pettytyrant101 Mon Aug 22, 2022 12:15 am
{{As someone who didnt like GoT I havent paid any attention to this spin off- but I see fromm this Matt Smith is in it- he's very good character actor, suspect he'll do well in this. }}
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Re: HotD
by halfwise Mon Aug 22, 2022 2:18 am
How could you "not like" something you never bothered to watch or read?
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Re: HotD
by Pettytyrant101 Mon Aug 22, 2022 6:58 am
{{ I gave the first series of GoT a go and was bored out of my nut. It just seemed like a weak rewrite of the War of the Roses made less interesting and with dragons thrown at it, I found the violence made me laugh at its attempts to be shocking and I prefer my fantasy stories more Tolkien and less soft core porn thanks! }}
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Re: HotD
by Forest Shepherd Mon Aug 22, 2022 8:24 am
Well I ended up watching the first episode anyway, despite my reservations. My sister invited me over for a watch with her family.
On the one hand, it has some well-written characters in it that I quite enjoyed watching. They are believable and do things that make sense, and this sets the show apart from most trash. Matt Smith is excellently cast as Daemon Targaryen. His character is a little lacking in development yet, in that we haven't seen enough of what makes him tick, but it's a good start. Daemon is kinda similar to Prince Hal from Henry IV Part I so far, but more wicked and seemingly less likely to have a happy ending or achieve much good in life.
The actress who plays the young daughter of the current king is very good too, even if she does look rather like a monkey.
Rhys Ifans is nice and stern as the Hand of the King as well, undermining Daemon in the eyes of the king as being too wild and ambitious.
ON THE OTHER HAND
So yeah, all-in-all, it has some predictable HBO problems. But the scenes that avoid the stupid gratuity are very enjoyable. Smith is great, Ifans is great, Considine is great, and the young actress for the princess is solid.
If they just didn't go full-retard with that one scene...
On the one hand, it has some well-written characters in it that I quite enjoyed watching. They are believable and do things that make sense, and this sets the show apart from most trash. Matt Smith is excellently cast as Daemon Targaryen. His character is a little lacking in development yet, in that we haven't seen enough of what makes him tick, but it's a good start. Daemon is kinda similar to Prince Hal from Henry IV Part I so far, but more wicked and seemingly less likely to have a happy ending or achieve much good in life.
The actress who plays the young daughter of the current king is very good too, even if she does look rather like a monkey.
Rhys Ifans is nice and stern as the Hand of the King as well, undermining Daemon in the eyes of the king as being too wild and ambitious.
ON THE OTHER HAND
- Spoiler:
- 1. There is far too much gratuitous gore put in for shock-value. It starts with Daemon's newly-formed Gold-cloaks severing various parts from criminals (hands, dick-and-balls, heads), and then leads to some ridiculously gory tourney-action where, apparently, the sons of the nobility are happily crushing each other's heads with maces and axes. Correct me if I'm mistaken, but I thought that something as important as the HEIR of your NOBLE HOUSE was not to be intentionally slain for sport. But perhaps that's just crazy of me??
And finally, the grand gory finale is a murder by forced Cesearian section on the queen of Westeros. It's presented as this kind of intentional discarding of the mother in order to ensure that the king will get his male heir. It comes after previous scenes in which the queen in question talks about how her function is to serve as a Royal Womb etc. etc. and the whole thing is just nihilistic and gross. The actual act itself is not done on a dying woman, unconscious or nearly so with no hope of survival. For the queen is awake and capable of struggling and crying out against her murder. Yay, I love retardedly-grim-dark fantasy shows. So glad I got to watch as the king helps hold down his wife as her stomach is cut open, crimson blood flowing through the sheets as she screams out in pain and fear. The whole thing is like some kind of Feminist-nightmare, where women are literally murdered to ensure that they serve the single function of bearing a son.
Gross, this episode sucks for that reason alone. The Hammurabi-judgement of criminals I can stomach, the killing of the nobility's youth is dumb but I can let it pass. But this nihilistic murder of a mother is pushing the envelope on degenerate wickedness in such an icky sort of way that I have absolutely no patience for it. What kind of husband could do such a thing? Heirs be damned. He clearly loves his wife and this just makes no sense. It would be one thing if she were certainly dying, but it happens too fast. It's the first solution that we even hear about concerning the breech birth as "everything has been tried". Yeah well, bloody well try again damnit. It's only been like 8 hours.
And no, it's not a realistic depiction of a last-ditch effort. They do it THE SAME DAY as she started her labour. There was a Swiss man in the 1500s who is said to have performed the same operation on his wife, but this was after SEVERAL DAYS of labour, not the same bloody afternoon. (His wife actually survived in that scenario too).
And then there's the usual HBO orgy-porgy gratuity in its brothel sex-scenes. From a crowd of onlookers peering through a latticed-wall at Daemon porking some female from behind to a straight-up drunken orgy: it is all quite tiresome.
The last thing I thought weird was a strange scene where the King's Hand sends his daughter to comfort the king after the death of his wife and new-born son. There's this weird energy to how the request is made, as though the King's Hand means for the king to be sexually comforted or something. That doesn't happen, that we can tell. Instead she brings a book to read to him and talks about how she felt when she lost her mother.
So yeah, all-in-all, it has some predictable HBO problems. But the scenes that avoid the stupid gratuity are very enjoyable. Smith is great, Ifans is great, Considine is great, and the young actress for the princess is solid.
If they just didn't go full-retard with that one scene...
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"The earth was rushing past like a river or a sea below him. Trees and water, and green grass, hurried away beneath. A great roar of wild animals rose as they rushed over the Zoological Gardens, mixed with a chattering of monkeys and a screaming of birds; but it died away in a moment behind them. And now there was nothing but the roofs of houses, sweeping along like a great torrent of stones and rocks. Chimney-pots fell, and tiles flew from the roofs..."
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Re: HotD
by halfwise Mon Aug 22, 2022 11:56 am
Petty -- so you DID give it a go. I'm surprised you were bored, as the acting and characterizations were superb. Perhaps being too aware of the Wars of the Roses annoyed you the same way that people overly tied to the Ring of the Nibelung might be annoyed by Lord of the Rings.
Forrest - sorry to hear about the gratuitous scenes. Yep, sounds HBOish in origin.
Forrest - sorry to hear about the gratuitous scenes. Yep, sounds HBOish in origin.
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Re: HotD
by Mrs Figg Mon Aug 22, 2022 12:17 pm
Pettytyrant101 wrote:{{ I gave the first series of GoT a go and was bored out of my nut. It just seemed like a weak rewrite of the War of the Roses made less interesting and with dragons thrown at it, I found the violence made me laugh at its attempts to be shocking and I prefer my fantasy stories more Tolkien and less soft core porn thanks! }}
That is exactly what I did with season one. It bored me out of my nut. I stopped watching it and wondered what all the fuss was about. I dived back in by chance during season 3 and thought it was amazingly entertaining. Then I went back to season two and watched that, and eventually I saw season one, and it all made sense. I watched it backwards. I still find season one the most boring, but it gives a good base for what happens next. The most boring bits are with Robert 'lardarse' Baratheon in the beginning at Winterfell. It all felt so slow and stodgy. The middle season are the best until you get to 7, and season 8 is just shiters.
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Re: HotD
by Pettytyrant101 Mon Aug 22, 2022 1:15 pm
{{ Forrest- sounds like much what I disliked about GoT- trying to use violence to shock, gratious nudity for the sake of it are still present and for me just as unwanted inmy fantasy series as ever. Same way as I never watched ST and once thought 'know what this needs, bad language and klingon tits' (looking at you ST Discovery 
).
Halfy- you could be right. As Tolkien preferred history real or feigned when given the choice between the real history and the fantasy version I prefer the real.
Figg- trouble for me there is I know I found series 1 boring, and knowing the last two series are generally considered a pile of burning shite, it doesnt overly incline one to go back and commit to several series of a tale watching just the middle for the decent bits. }}
). Halfy- you could be right. As Tolkien preferred history real or feigned when given the choice between the real history and the fantasy version I prefer the real.
Figg- trouble for me there is I know I found series 1 boring, and knowing the last two series are generally considered a pile of burning shite, it doesnt overly incline one to go back and commit to several series of a tale watching just the middle for the decent bits. }}
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Re: HotD
by halfwise Mon Aug 22, 2022 1:47 pm
Not just decent, genre defining. Before GoT nobody thought you could get away with fantasy TV except in a tongue in cheek Xena and Hercules made for the kids approach.
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Re: HotD
by Pettytyrant101 Mon Aug 22, 2022 4:15 pm
genre defining- Halfy
{{ maybe, for me I just wish the genre had been defined by something better, something less reliant on shock value, violence and nudity- this is probably why a tv series based on Tolkien needs a nudity monitor or whatever the hell they are called Thanks a bunch GoT you genre defined grown up fantasy as sex and violence!!! I'd rather watch Xena frankly.}}
{{ maybe, for me I just wish the genre had been defined by something better, something less reliant on shock value, violence and nudity- this is probably why a tv series based on Tolkien needs a nudity monitor or whatever the hell they are called
Thanks a bunch GoT you genre defined grown up fantasy as sex and violence!!! I'd rather watch Xena frankly.}}_________________
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Re: HotD
by Mrs Figg Mon Aug 22, 2022 5:44 pm
Pettytyrant101 wrote:
Figg- trouble for me there is I know I found series 1 boring, and knowing the last two series are generally considered a pile of burning shite, it doesnt overly incline one to go back and commit to several series of a tale watching just the middle for the decent bits. }}
Then you will miss some of the finest TV ever made. You just have to accept season 8 and enjoy the crazy magnificence in between. Season 7 is also great so I wouldn't believe all the moaning about it.
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Re: HotD
by halfwise Mon Aug 22, 2022 5:56 pm
Season 1 is slow because it's all setup, as Figgs said. It's all the calm before the storm that's unleashed when Ned's head gets chopped off. Think of season 1 as a crossbow being winched into tautness - an image that will pay off later, and one of the moments in which the series far outstripped the books in effectiveness. You just can't replicate in words the impact that sound would have after the first bolt is shot, no matter how good the writing.
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Re: HotD
by Forest Shepherd Mon Aug 22, 2022 6:48 pm
If you don't enjoy season 1 then I find it unlikely that you'll enjoy the later seasons. I have no idea what Figgs is talking about with Season 1 being "the most boring" but following seasons being the best fantasy TV ever. Generally when I describe something as being "the most boring" it belongs to a series of little worth.
It's not as though things don't happen. In the very first episode we are introduced to all our main cast, the Starks decide to head south, Jon is to go to the wall, Danaerys is married off, and the intrigue surrounding Cersei and her brother-lover is revealed when little Bran gets pushed out of a window by Jaime.
It's not as though things don't happen. In the very first episode we are introduced to all our main cast, the Starks decide to head south, Jon is to go to the wall, Danaerys is married off, and the intrigue surrounding Cersei and her brother-lover is revealed when little Bran gets pushed out of a window by Jaime.
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"The earth was rushing past like a river or a sea below him. Trees and water, and green grass, hurried away beneath. A great roar of wild animals rose as they rushed over the Zoological Gardens, mixed with a chattering of monkeys and a screaming of birds; but it died away in a moment behind them. And now there was nothing but the roofs of houses, sweeping along like a great torrent of stones and rocks. Chimney-pots fell, and tiles flew from the roofs..."
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Re: HotD
by Forest Shepherd Mon Aug 22, 2022 6:59 pm
Side-rant brought on by Figgs: what's up with people not using irregular past-tense forms for verbs any more?
"Dived" instead of "dove" "lighted" instead of "lit", etc.
I've been noticing it lately, even in LotR!
"Dived" instead of "dove" "lighted" instead of "lit", etc.
I've been noticing it lately, even in LotR!
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"The earth was rushing past like a river or a sea below him. Trees and water, and green grass, hurried away beneath. A great roar of wild animals rose as they rushed over the Zoological Gardens, mixed with a chattering of monkeys and a screaming of birds; but it died away in a moment behind them. And now there was nothing but the roofs of houses, sweeping along like a great torrent of stones and rocks. Chimney-pots fell, and tiles flew from the roofs..."
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Re: HotD
by halfwise Mon Aug 22, 2022 7:16 pm
And that was just the first episode! A lot happened in the first season, but I think you could subliminally feel that pieces were being moved into position, it was more exposition and setup than plot development. Things really took off once you know the characters and the trigger was pulled to release them on their interconnected arcs.
Note: I'm with you on the past tense verbs, Forrest! I'm also pissed than when people die we now react with sadness instead of sorrow!
And why does microsoft think I'm traveling instead of travelling? Does this mean I'm troting instead of trotting? What the hell?? Doesn't anybody know about long versus short vowals?
Note: I'm with you on the past tense verbs, Forrest! I'm also pissed than when people die we now react with sadness instead of sorrow!
And why does microsoft think I'm traveling instead of travelling? Does this mean I'm troting instead of trotting? What the hell?? Doesn't anybody know about long versus short vowals?
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Re: HotD
by Pettytyrant101 Mon Aug 22, 2022 11:50 pm
It's not as though things don't happen.- Forest
{{ I didnt say nothing happened, its just what did happen simply didnt engage me, by episodes end I really didnt care about the world or what happened to any of the characters in it and I didnt think the plot was anything special or new. Nor did I think it was terribly written in a technical sense, or badly acted either, it just didnt do anything for me either. }}
{{ I didnt say nothing happened, its just what did happen simply didnt engage me, by episodes end I really didnt care about the world or what happened to any of the characters in it and I didnt think the plot was anything special or new. Nor did I think it was terribly written in a technical sense, or badly acted either, it just didnt do anything for me either. }}
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Re: HotD
by Mrs Figg Tue Aug 23, 2022 1:15 pm
Anyway. I DIVED into episode one of HotD and it was pretty much like season one of GoT. Lots of set up and character reveals. There was the need for a good set up because there are so many similar and confusing names its ridiculous. It was a slow start but I quite enjoyed watching Matt Smith chew up the scenery. He was the best thing about it. Not sure about Princess Nut Nuts and her little monkey face, but she may develop a character. She has a big butch armoured minder who pops up to give her information, bit like having a sarcastic Ser wikipedia, but it can kill you.
It looks great, and we get to see Harrenhal before it goes nasty.
It looks great, and we get to see Harrenhal before it goes nasty.
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Re: HotD
by chris63 Tue Aug 23, 2022 1:25 pm
When I started watching Game of thrones I binged on 6 or 7 episodes in one day then watched the rest the next day.
Didn't get the same feeling with this.
Didn't get the same feeling with this.
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Re: HotD
by halfwise Tue Aug 23, 2022 2:15 pm
I would love to see Harrenhal.
GoT did make you care about the characters - one reviewer said that it actually had nice people in it, where HotD does not.
GoT did make you care about the characters - one reviewer said that it actually had nice people in it, where HotD does not.
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Re: HotD
by Mrs Figg Tue Aug 23, 2022 3:22 pm
There is no Tyrion, and the kids look stuffed shirts instead of full of life like the Stark kids. Maybe they went for the most stately 'old' Byzantine look.
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Re: HotD
by halfwise Tue Aug 23, 2022 4:23 pm
Sounds like I may be willing to wait until it comes out on netflix, but we'll see how it develops over the next few episodes.
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Re: HotD
by halfwise Tue Aug 23, 2022 5:36 pm
Do we buy this? I suppose we have precious little information to base our judgement on.
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