Artisitc Merits

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Post by Mrs Figg Fri Jun 10, 2022 10:04 pm

I like the 3rd one, mysterious sunlight.
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Post by halfwise Wed Jun 22, 2022 7:35 pm

1st one. Bright and cheerful, seems the most realistic of the 3.

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Post by Pettytyrant101 Sat Jun 25, 2022 12:16 am

{{ This is why its always interesting to me to hear folks thoughts- three of you commented and you all prefer a different picture. }}

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Post by Pettytyrant101 Thu Sep 15, 2022 10:06 am

{{ So Ive been mucking about with a free program called fotosketcher- https://fotosketcher.com/ it basically just adds filters to your photos to convert them into different styles of painting or sketch, but has a few more easy to get at options to muck about with than your average photoshop or gimp filter does.

Anyhow I decided to give it a go on some of the photoshopped pictures Id made as illustrations for LotR's to see how it turned out, see what you think-

Crickhollow variations-

Artisitc Merits - Page 6 2-zpsbohgj2or-Foto-Sketcher

Artisitc Merits - Page 6 Dfr

Two variations of a Knife in the Dark (which do you prefer?) -

(Original)
Artisitc Merits - Page 6 A-knife-in-the-darkb

Artisitc Merits - Page 6 A-knife-in-the-darkb-Fasoto-Sketcher

Artisitc Merits - Page 6 A-knife-in-the-darkbx-Foto-Sketcher

Three varations of Mrs Figg in Gondor looking east over the Fields of the Pelannor towards Osgiliath and the mountains of Mordor-

(Original)
Artisitc Merits - Page 6 Minas-tirithb

Artisitc Merits - Page 6 Minas-tirithb-Fot25o-Sketcher

Artisitc Merits - Page 6 Minas-tirithb-Fot87o-Sketcher

Artisitc Merits - Page 6 Minas-tirithb-Foto1235-Sketcher

Fun wee program to muck about with. Gets the Petty Tyrant 'wont make you crabbit using it' seal of approval.  Nod  }}


Last edited by Pettytyrant101 on Fri Sep 16, 2022 1:50 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Post by Mrs Figg Thu Sep 15, 2022 5:28 pm

oooooh! I like them all. its hard to choose. Razz

I like Crickhollow at night, its looks spooky, like the Black Riders are hanging about. Very Happy
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Post by halfwise Thu Sep 15, 2022 8:27 pm

The first Figgs scene is the most realistic to the description, second too bright, third gets impressionistic in a way that the sky doesn't match the dress, so it feels even more unrealistic than if the dress was mucked about in the same way as the sky.

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Post by Pettytyrant101 Fri Sep 16, 2022 10:15 am

{{ There are 4 more variations on the Figg in Gondor one as I used it as a test picture for the program-

(Original)
Artisitc Merits - Page 6 Minas-tirithb

Artisitc Merits - Page 6 Minas-jnj

Artisitc Merits - Page 6 Minas-tirit2hb-Foto-Sketcher

Artisitc Merits - Page 6 Minas-tirithb-Foto-Sketcher

Artisitc Merits - Page 6 Minas-tirithb-hy-Foto-Sketcher

I also thought Id give it a go on a few of my other renders-

(Original)
Artisitc Merits - Page 6 Cloudf

(Original)
Artisitc Merits - Page 6 Cloudf-Foto-Sketcher

(Original)
Artisitc Merits - Page 6 Fa2l

Artisitc Merits - Page 6 Fa2l-Foto-Sketcher

(Original)
Artisitc Merits - Page 6 W

Artisitc Merits - Page 6 Fgfg

(Original)

Artisitc Merits - Page 6 Rings2

Artisitc Merits - Page 6 Rings2-Foto-Sketchver

Artisitc Merits - Page 6 Saucers2-Foto-Sketcher

(Original)
Artisitc Merits - Page 6 Wow

Artisitc Merits - Page 6 Wow-Foto-Sketchecr

But probably two of the ones that worked best were two generic random photographs I grabbed from google images, the first of the Isle of Skye-

Artisitc Merits - Page 6 Scottish-highlands-1-Foto-Sketcher

Artisitc Merits - Page 6 Scottish-highlandsjjk-1-Foto-Sketcher

Artisitc Merits - Page 6 Scottish-highlands-kjkjh

Artisitc Merits - Page 6 Scottish-higmhlands-1-Foto-Sketcher

and a stag-

Artisitc Merits - Page 6 Scottish-red-deer-stag-glencoe-2-grafgfnt-glendinning-Foto-Sketcher

Artisitc Merits - Page 6 Scottish-red-deer-stag-glencoe-2-grant-bn

Artisitc Merits - Page 6 Scottish-red-deer-stag-glencoe-2-grant-glendinning-Foto-Sketdfhcher

I shall need to give it a go on some of my own photographs next. }}


Last edited by Pettytyrant101 on Fri Sep 16, 2022 1:57 pm; edited 7 times in total

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Post by halfwise Fri Sep 16, 2022 1:17 pm

Should show the originals as well as the modified ones. It's definitely a fun tool to throw in these different artistic techniques. Can you outline different sections to treat differently?

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Post by Pettytyrant101 Fri Sep 16, 2022 1:58 pm

{{ Ive gone back and edited the above posts to have the orginal version before the variants (where I can find them Mad . )}}

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Post by Pettytyrant101 Sun Jul 09, 2023 1:18 pm

{{ Havent done one of these in a while, well 2 actually, but variants on same scene just changed time of day (i thought Id try a white cliffs of Dover aesthetic). I dont really use Terragen these days, with Unreal being so good now but for old times sake I got the urge to throw something together. From set up to starting to render it was only about 20 minutes (one of the very good things about Terragen, it can be quite easy to get half decent results very quickly if youre aim isnt too complicated an image, generic landscapes and weather is very simple however). }}

Artisitc Merits - Page 6 1

Artisitc Merits - Page 6 2

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Post by Pettytyrant101 Sat Sep 30, 2023 7:27 am

{{ Quiet night at work, so found some pencils and decided to do a doodle. Settled on trying to do a version of Tolkien's Hobbiton picture, but ran out of time plus only pencils I could find were so blunt and broken at times was more like carving than drawing! Still given that, reasonably happy with it as a sketch. }}

Artisitc Merits - Page 6 IMG-20230930-063733

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Post by Lancebloke Sat Sep 30, 2023 1:52 pm

That's cool, although not sure its the right kind of grass. Smile
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Post by Pettytyrant101 Sat Sep 30, 2023 1:59 pm

{{ Ha! Good spot, it's not. At least not as I'd have chosen to do it if I'd had much of a choice, but I was limited to two green pencils, 1 yellow and a burgundy to work with, all of which were completely blunt and only thing I had to attempt to sharpen them with was the very blunt blade of a pair of scissors Mad I may have another bash at it on my own time and with better tools. }}

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Post by halfwise Sat Sep 30, 2023 4:50 pm

Needs chimneys.

(what an odd word, "chimney")

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Post by Pettytyrant101 Sat Sep 30, 2023 5:51 pm

{{ I think I may have a go at a more detailed, proper version that tries to account more for the books descriptions, chimneys and all, but is still heavily based on Tolkien's general outline.

One thing I have noticed, which I think few have up till now me included have, and that almost everyone who I've just looked at whose done their own copy of this illustration gets wrong - which way is Bag End's front door facing?

If you look at the Hobbiton illustration it appears to be facing straight out towards the viewer, but in fact I think this is just Tolkien's not quite right perspective, and in fact the door is meant to be more side on and set back and is in fact facing straight down the road.

Artisitc Merits - Page 6 S

This is how Tolkien depicts the view out of Bag End in his Bag End Hall drawing.

Artisitc Merits - Page 6 2

There is no way any hillside should be in view out Bilbo's front door unless it's looking across the Hill, down the road, rather than directly outwards. It's actually facing more in the direction of the Party Field I believe. }}

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Post by Mrs Figg Sun Oct 01, 2023 11:24 am

I like it Thumbs Up , defo wrong grass length though. Wink
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Post by Pettytyrant101 Sun Oct 01, 2023 5:26 pm

{{ It is remarkable in Tolkien's drawing just how short the grass is indeed. There may be a lack of flowers and veggie allotments, but those are some well mowed lawns he's drawn Nod }}

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Post by Pettytyrant101 Mon Oct 02, 2023 12:13 pm

{{ So I am planning on doing a larger more detailed version of Tolkien's Hobbiton illustration, with a few alterations of my own to bring it inline with the book's descriptions more. But before I started I wanted to get some reference material, stuff like examples of the different types of trees, appropriately lengthened grass and other important matters. And also buildings.
Which is where it got interesting. Now the mill is simple enough, here's a reminder of the original illustration -

Artisitc Merits - Page 6 00419

The mill seems to me based on the one Tolkien knew as a child, only he shortened the building length and replaced the added chimney with a tower-

Artisitc Merits - Page 6 5ed8a2ecb74e3b408c8957c9-sarehole-mill

The main change is from red brick to a yellow or sandstone one (though Tolkien retains the red brick in the river bank wall of the mill).

Where it got tricky was the large building mid-picture. My assumption was farm, there are large haystacks in the field behind it, and what seems to be planted crops, and the central courtyard has a dovecot (there maybe another that's either next to a haystack or oddly placed on the roof) but what style and period was Tolkien basing it on?

He says in Letters the Shire is England about the time of Queen Victoria's jubilee (1897) but it looks nothing like farms of that time period, really nothing like them, not in design or layout.
So I wondered, given its size, if perhaps it was based on a small English Manor House, which often had wings, and though it bares more resemblance to such than it does to 1800's farmhouses it's still not really a close match, yet something about it was annoyingly familiar.
Then I thought, Coach House! They often have a central courtyard made of the buildings wings, but again it's not really a match, and the courtyard is too small, and there is no traditional arched entrance to accommodate horses or ponies (and probably not enough demand for its use in the Shire if there was). So I was stumped.
Then it hit me why it seemed familiar. It looks Roman. I just hadn't had the Romans in mind when thinking of the Shire. But it looks a lot like how Roman villas built in occupied Roman England looked, even down to the colouring -

Artisitc Merits - Page 6 Roman-Villa-Rustica-Model

Artisitc Merits - Page 6 Roman-villa-Stroud

I have no idea if any of this was intentional on Tolkien's part but its curious that he didn't draw the Shire above ground buildings in the style we'd now think of traditionally English - thatched roofs for example, all the roofs here are tiled as Roman houses were and English ones rarely (nor was it a native practise). But as an outlier thought the Numenoreons were Romanesque, Gondor is basically a proto Roman Empire, even located in the same place the real Roman Empire would be, and the Shire was once part of the kingdom of Arnor. Is it possible Tolkien deliberately choose a more Mediterranean building style for above ground dwellings in the Shire rather than English because the hobbits, who traditionally lived in holes, learned how to build above ground in brick from the Numenoreon descendents of the North Kingdom (or they just imitated their style)?

Another afterthought, I hadn't really appreciated just how large Bag End is, or just how many rooms it must have inside it, its grounds not only come down as far as the party field but its side door is as far from its front door as the distance between all three hobbit holes on the Row below. Its massive. No wonder the Sackviles wanted it so bad! }}


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Post by halfwise Mon Oct 02, 2023 12:28 pm

the building you are wondering about is quite possibly the Green Dragon.

The side door on Bag-end need not be connected. It's on a lower level with no windows; I'm thinking it's a gardener's shed.

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Post by Pettytyrant101 Mon Oct 02, 2023 12:35 pm

{{ The Green Dragon is in Bywater scratch

Well Tolkien does say that Bag End takes up the entire top of The Hill, so presumably thats all round not just the side facing, if it is part of Bag End then they probably also own the field it opens into as well and who know what land behind. It's quite the wedding gift! Bagshot Row presumably was built by the Baggins too for their employees (with the Gamgees still being there).}}

{{edit add- also just doesn't look like a pub, no signage or anything, plus doubt Tolkien would have made a point about Prancing Pony having more than one storey and wings if their local was also a two storey building with wings as this one is. }}

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Post by halfwise Mon Oct 02, 2023 2:28 pm

Hmm....I had always thought of Bywater as being a suburb of Hobbiton closer to Bag End, but any maps I see put it further away. Have to reread those descriptive parts.

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Post by Pettytyrant101 Mon Oct 02, 2023 3:06 pm

{{ You have fallen prey to the evil of PJ! Mad The Green Dragon is on the Bywater Road, next to Bywater Pool. PJ's tiny version of Hobbiton combines the two and puts the Pool and the inn in Hobbiton. So the Green Dragon is in Hobbiton, in the films. But not in the books. There is a local to Hobbiton but I cant remember its name, not helped by the internet nearly all giving the film version and getting it wrong too Mad }}

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Post by Pettytyrant101 Mon Oct 02, 2023 3:12 pm

{{ Apparently the mystery building is The Old Grange (it was torn down during Sarumans take over and replaced with a row of sheds). It is a granary. So they are probably not dovecots as I first thought, but rather grain storage. Does explain the haystacks. }}

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Pettytyrant101
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Artisitc Merits - Page 6 Empty Re: Artisitc Merits

Post by halfwise Mon Oct 02, 2023 3:54 pm

No, it's not PJ that led me astray, it's the fact that in the books nothing ever happens in Hobbiton. Any action either goes on in Bagshot Row or in Bywater, leading to the natural impression that Bywater is closer to Bag End than Hobbiton.

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Artisitc Merits - Page 6 Empty Re: Artisitc Merits

Post by halfwise Mon Oct 02, 2023 3:56 pm

So that's what a grange is, a grainary? It's a word like dell/dale that keeps being thrown around to add a quaint feeling to things, but nobody pays much attention to what it really means.

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