We're all doomed! Doomed I say- the Corona virus thread for panicking in!

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Post by Pettytyrant101 Mon Jun 21, 2021 10:33 am

{{ Hope its enough Figg. Can add the local grammar school to the listof places that have had to close back down following an outbreak. And this wekeend, for reasons I dont understand the annual rally is going ahead and our hotel is fully booked with folk coming from all over. Not looking forward to it I have to say. }}

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Post by Pettytyrant101 Mon Jun 21, 2021 11:47 am

{{ The speed of increase of the delta variant is stunning and horrfying. Weve gone from 2 in 100,000 just over a month ago to the latest figures for my town of 208.7! Its jumped by a hundred in just over a week. }}

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Post by halfwise Mon Jun 21, 2021 12:04 pm

It may actually change politics in this country: fewer republicans are vaccinated.

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Post by halfwise Mon Jun 21, 2021 1:58 pm

Delta variant is 31% of cases in this country already, up from 4% 11 days ago.  It will probably go through like a storm in the next couple of weeks.

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Post by halfwise Tue Jun 22, 2021 12:08 pm

Ah, crap.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/israel-faces-virus-surge-vaccinated-082159043.html

Over 55 per cent of Israel’s 9.3 million citizens have received two doses of the Pfizer/BioNTech vaccine.

Nearly a third of the new cases in the past week have been vaccinated individuals, and many of the new infections are with the delta variant.

Health ministry director-general Hezi Levi told Israel's Channel 12 on Monday that most of the new cases among vaccinated persons are mild, but called on parents to vaccinate their teenage children.

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Post by David H Tue Jun 22, 2021 3:53 pm

No surprise really. Just like in farming there's no magic pesticide. Nature adapts. That's just what She does. "cases among vaccinated persons are mild" is still a big step forward, but I predict more chapters to this story.

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Post by Mrs Figg Tue Jun 22, 2021 5:00 pm

its the kids who are spreading it, until they are all vaccinated this is never going to stop.
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Post by Lancebloke Wed Jun 23, 2021 11:59 am

It is never going to stop anyway, the same as the flu hasn't.

After we get the majority vaccinated we just need to go back to normality.
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Post by halfwise Wed Jun 23, 2021 1:36 pm

And keep getting vaccinated. I haven't had a flu shot in decades because it doesn't scare me and I never seem to get it. But this scares me.

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Post by Lancebloke Wed Jun 23, 2021 3:26 pm

The flu should scare you too if this does! It causes the same problems, just we have been exposed to it for far longer and so have better natural defences.

If we are ever going to get over this as a species then it needs to be something our bodies are generally coded to resist. We can't do that by hiding from it.

Just look at recent predictions that we expect to be hit by normal respiratory viruses this winter and potentially with newborns whose mother's haven't been exposed and passed on antibody protection.

I feel like we are storing up a massive problem by keeping ourselves in this position.
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Post by David H Wed Jun 23, 2021 3:43 pm

halfwise wrote:And keep getting vaccinated.  I haven't had a flu shot in decades because it doesn't scare me and I never seem to get it.  But this scares me.
Yeah, but it's complicated. After outright fear, the best argument for everyone getting jabs and boosters is looking after the good of everybody. That's how measles, chickenpox, smallpox etc have been made to nearly disappear.
On the other hand, the most common argument for not getting the jab is that you're not scared of the disease and besides you probably won't get it anyway. I remember you cited unvaccinated healthcare workers who said pretty much the same about Covid as you're saying about flu.
I think most of us have both of these voices in our heads at the same time, and that may be why we always seem to stall at about 50% without a serious public health push.

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Post by Pettytyrant101 Wed Jun 23, 2021 4:40 pm

{{ This is worse than flu, at least at this point in time. Ive seen flu go round a care home and it can be devatating, but nothing like covid has been. And in thrity years of care work I never saw a single care worker hospitilised or killed by flu, sadly it has happened with covid. }}

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Post by Lancebloke Wed Jun 23, 2021 5:05 pm

Petty - yes, at this point it is certainly worse than flu but that is because humans have dealt with flu for a very long time. We have dealt with these kinds of coronaviruses for a very short time and in limited doses (SARS, MERS and this mainly).

So I agree that we should do what we can now with vaccines etc, but we will have to get going again very soon as these lockdowns have already created a huge backlog of problems to deal with and I think carrying on is only going to make things exponentially worse. 

This should be the last lockdown we have, once this is done this should be it with the only exception of a variant that has a high mortality rate and is just as virulent.
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Post by David H Wed Jun 23, 2021 5:34 pm

Lancebloke wrote: that is because humans have dealt with flu for a very long time. We have dealt with these kinds of coronaviruses for a very short time and in limited doses (SARS, MERS and this mainly).

Yep. Nothing new really. My grandma and her sister lived through the 1918 flu. I grew up hearing stories of them as teenagers packing kettles of soup up the stairs of an old armory that had been converted into a "hospital" to feed the sick, and watching the bodies go out daily. No vaccinations then, but somehow both of them survived.

I know a retired dairyman who swears he's immune to Covid infections because of his lifetime exposure to bovine coronavirus from working with cows, like the cowpox used to give some immunity to smallpox. I wouldn't say he's wrong. It makes sense that living in and around a wide variety of animals might give a person's immune system more tools to fight with if/when a bug eventually does cross over. Maybe? Shrugging

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Post by Lancebloke Wed Jun 23, 2021 5:43 pm

David - Possibly. But you just gave me the thought of an accidentally ingested virus in a human body not lnow what to do with itself but then getting smashed by an immune response.

I am not sure how much that kind of thing happens all the time, an unexpected visitor getting the treatment even though it wouldn't have done anything. Do they survive that long?
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Post by Mrs Figg Wed Jun 23, 2021 6:57 pm

I think the herd immunity argument is redundant with covid, its NOT flu, its not a bad cold, its a killer and you play Russian Roulette with it at your peril. The only way to live with it is to eradicate it or protect everyone with the vaccine like with Smallpox. They made everyone have the jab and now no Smallpox, this should be exactly the same procedure. It will be impossible to eradicate covid variants may come back every year but everyone needs a booster jab in that case. The herd immunity theory has been thoroughly tried out in Sweden and now they are in deep trouble. It does not work.

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