UK in/out referendum on the EU (Brexit vs Bremain)

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Post by Mrs Figg Sat Jun 22, 2019 5:04 pm

You cant argue with these types of people, the only thing to do is neutralise any threat to the country by making sure they don't get to choose the future of the country. I think in October there is going to be a war between white, middle-aged, middle-England, male conservative Tories and the rest of us.
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Post by Pettytyrant101 Tue Jun 25, 2019 10:23 am

{{ Interview form yesterday on the BBC with Boris. I happened to catch it live, but was frustrated to find the 'official' BBC youtube version of it is heavily edited! Mad
Had to hunt about for a third party source of the uncut version.

I didn't think he looked focused, gathered, or comfortable with himself during it, and he clearly has no actual plan going forward at all, no wonder he has been avoiding press scrutiny and debates! }}


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Post by Mrs Figg Tue Jun 25, 2019 11:24 am

Johnson just got called a shyster on Sky News, they wont be inviting her back any time soon. Very Happy
Just been looking at Chris Riddell's political cartoons from the Guardian. They are epic. Razz
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Post by Pettytyrant101 Wed Jun 26, 2019 6:55 pm


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Post by Pettytyrant101 Thu Jun 27, 2019 9:48 am

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Post by Pettytyrant101 Sat Jun 29, 2019 7:35 pm



{{{ She is the only leader in the UK right now that doesn't sound like a lunatic! }}

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Post by Pettytyrant101 Wed Jul 03, 2019 10:44 am

{{{ This is a very interesting interview from BBC's Newsnight.
Its with Ruth Davidson, leader of the Scottish Conservatives.



Whats interesting is firstly her clear disregard and dislike for Boris Johnson, at this point very likely her next party leader. Even her support for Hunt at this point is not exactly full throated but clearly the lesser of two evils as she backed neither remain earlier rounds of voting.
But what I find most telling is if you want to to understand the gulf between England and Scotland politically now dont compare Tories and SNP, compare Tori8es and Tories.
Ruth Davidsons conservativism is one thats been nurtured in the grounds of wining votes for the Scottish Parliament, solely in Scotland, with no need to appeal to English conservatism, or the right wing of anti-immigrant, Brexit drum beating. As a result the gulf between her and the contenders for the next leader of the UK Tory party is so wide as to be almost two different entities. And not just politically, where they are privately educated at Oxford she went to a normal Scottish Uni, and where they are your traditional white, over 40 hetrosexual males (Boris with a highly dubious past regards women), she is younger, female and in a same sex marriage and has recently adopted.
Its increasingly hard to see what the Scottish Conservatives and Westminster Conservatism have in common, politically or on a personal level.
It will be interesting to see how she manages to work with either of them.}}

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Post by Mrs Figg Wed Jul 03, 2019 11:50 am

You know when you are in trouble when Bush and Cameron look like statesmen. Laughing
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Post by Pettytyrant101 Thu Jul 04, 2019 9:11 am

{{ So today Boris has written a piece for the Sun newspaper, pitching his case to Sun readers for his vision of his Britain. Or should I say his England. Because despite the piece being headlined 'Boris Vows to Heal Britain' it is quite clearly a piece about and for England.

So what's he got to say that makes me think this? Well it starts with -

'IT is an incredible fact that this country is set to become the most prosperous economy in Europe'- a claim I have no clue as to the basis of, if there is one.

'It is the UK that can boast the most world-class universities, the biggest financial centre, the most creative TV producers — and British pop stars outsell everyone else in the global charts.'

When someone like Boris mentions British Universities I always hear Sir Humphrey from Yes Minister adding, "both of them".  Very Happy  The biggest financial centre- well that would be London, so England then. TV producers, um ok, but again largely England based, the rest of us get regional offshoots of that.
As to pop stars, I think this is Boris trying to talk to working class people!  Shocked 'Well they watch x-factor' might be his thinking here!  Mad And frankly if finances, tv producers and pop stars is all you think the country has going for it then we're fucked. We used to produce stuff, steel, ships, textiles, we were a nation of manufacturers and producers. According to Boris all we have left now are service industries focused largely on London and the south of England, and media luvvies!

'London and the South East are the most economically productive regions in the whole of Europe '

Not sure this is actually true, but even if it is its still England-centric.

'And yet that economic dynamism and success are not shared equally by the whole of the UK.'

Aha, he's remembered there is stuff outside the south-east of England!  cheers

'We need to close that opportunity gap. '

Yup, we do, how?  scratch

'I have a unique plan to bring this country together, and to unite our society'

And that plan would be?  study

'This is a plan tailor-made for Sun readers and all their concerns.'

It involves topless women and celebrity gossip?  Shocked

'when I became Mayor of our capital more than ten years ago, they talked of a tale of two cities — the rich and the poor.'

OK, maybe he will tell us what the plan is after this digression. I'm sure he will.  Nod

'We had four of the six poorest boroughs in the whole of the UK. When I stepped down at the end of two terms I am proud to say that we had none of the poorest 20....it  was the poorest quartile that  had seen the biggest growth in  life expectancy.'

Technically true, but then he did also price a lot of the poor working class people out of inner London all together and replaced them with wealthy versions. Which is one way to tackle poverty in an area, move it to another area where it's less obvious!  Twisted Evil

The next six paragraphs his him touting his record as Mayor of London (doesnt mention the bridge fiasco that cost the tax payer 53million  though!) but it's back to England again.  Mad  Sure that plans coming though.  Nod

'We need to end the current crime wave across the country just as we ended it in London — rounding up the leaders of the “county lines” drugs gangs, backing the police to do proper stop and search....That is why I today pledge another 20,000 police officers'

Ok first Boris voted for all the cuts to police numbers the Tory government has implemented first under Cameron then under May. Boris argued for those cuts and insisted they would have no effect on front line services.
Secondly, this is only bloody England again! Police is devolved in Scotland and Northern Ireland. So the next few paragraphs about knife crime and giving police increased stop and search- effects only England.  Mad
Police numbers in Scotland for example have ben protected under the SNP and have remained consistent since 2010.

'But the best solution to most social evils is the prospect of a good job, and that means we must now do much more for education.
I pledge if elected to increase per-pupil funding both for primary and secondary schools, so that spending resumes its pre-2015 trajectory.'


This is JUST England again.  Mad  Education is devolved, so none of what he says here effects anywhere but England.

'We should also boost funding for further education.'


Your party cut it and introduced fees!  Mad  And again this is just England, higher education is free in Scotland and grant funded I believe in NI. This is still just all about England.  Mad

'I want to give the whole of the West Midlands the type of mass transit connections that make London so successful'


Blimey he's moved out of London! Not England but its a start!   cheers

'We should be doing far more in Wales and the West Country, and across the whole of the UK.'

And yeah, that's going to be it for the rest of us I fear.   Evil or Very Mad And enjoy your one mention Wales because its all your getting, still better than Scotland or Northern Ireland we just get lumped in as 'whole of UK'.  Mad

The rest of the article now descends into attacks on Corbyn, terrorist sympathiser etc  Rolling Eyes

So in an article about unifying Britain he talks exclusively about policies which only effect England, gives Wales a single mention and none to the rest of us.  Mad

Oh and if your wondering just how in touch Boris really is with your average working class person his big policy announcement today is to hold a vote to overturn the ban on fox hunting- so the toffs can get back out and get bloodied again like the good old days.  Banghead  }}

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Post by Mrs Figg Thu Jul 04, 2019 12:41 pm

That is literally a masterclass in disingenuous claptrap for the easily led.

Hunt the *unt wants to bring back FOX HUNTING. its as if his team is so desperate to beat Johnson AT ANY COST. I imagine them in a think tank going through the policies most likely to appeal to conservative pensioners in the Home Counties, "oh I know, they like killing defenceless animals, lets lift the ban". FFS

:facepalm:
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Post by David H Thu Jul 04, 2019 3:56 pm

So in an article about unifying Britain he talks exclusively about policies which only effect England, gives Wales a single mention and none to the rest of us.

Maybe that's not all bad? At least the way it works over here, when they do remember your name it's almost never good. pale
There's a lot to be said for sitting quietly in the back row and just doing what needs to be done... Nod

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Post by Pettytyrant101 Tue Jul 09, 2019 2:36 pm

{{ Mmm,  this whole UK Ambassador to America thing is reeking!  No

For those who haven't heard the story the Daily Mail got hold of the last two years worth of emails and memos from the UK Ambassador in Washington to Whitehall. In them he describes Trump as incompetent, inept, if you want to get him to understand anything make it simple and blunt, he described the Iran policy as incompetent and incoherent, the White House as dysfunctional and unlikely to ever resemble normalcy and plenty more. You get the idea.

Trump has responded in a series of increasingly childish tweets, first saying no one liked the Ambassador anyway, and today saying he was pompous and labelling him the 'wacky ambassador', he then tore into May calling her a disaster before going on to boast how America has the greatest economy and military in the world, before rounding it off by praising himself  Rolling Eyes

So that's where we are at. But the real interesting thing here is who leaked them and why?

Now the aim is clear it seems to me- to oust the Ambassador and make his position untenable. He was due to retire next year, but that would be after Brexit and any trade deal between UK and US. And the Ambassador is known to be in favour of the EU (not surprising for a civil servant) and to be close to May.
Know who doesn't like him, really doesn't like him, Nigel Farage, who of late just happens to have been cosying up with and talking with Boris Johnson. A man who is gambling he can survive even a no deal Brexit and get that big trade deal with Trump.
If Boris's first act as PM in overseas affairs is to get rid of an ambassador who has insulted Trump and replaces him with  Farage or his type (and yes Farage becoming the Ambassador has been floated!) an Ambassador who will lavish praise on Trump and do some arse licking, I reckon Boris is gambling here again, that Trump is intellectually poor coupled with his narcissism that this removal of and replacement of this Ambassador will win him over to being favourable to Boris new government and a trade deal.

It would also get rid of an Ambassador who might have been objectionable to some of the trade deal Boris might strike, on foods and on Pharmaceuticals in particular and replace him with one who is favourable to those things.

So my money is on this having been done by someone acting on behalf of Boris.  Nod  

(and though circumstantial, it is coincidental that if you read this story on Fox's web page they have two videos attached to it. The first a segment from Fox and Friends in which they cherry pick positive stories about Trump written in right wing UK newspapers during his State visit, and the other is ....Boris's speech announcing he is running for PM !}}

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Post by Mrs Figg Tue Jul 09, 2019 3:33 pm

The whole thing stinks.

Farage ambassador?, words fail. run out of expletives. but it would be the most embarrassing point in British history, and we have had a few.
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Post by Pettytyrant101 Tue Jul 09, 2019 4:38 pm

The whole thing stinks. - Figg

{{ Another good reason for suspecting Boris's lots hands in this is who has to deal with the fallout? who has to try to walk the tight rope of not condemning an Ambassador for doing his job, having to stand by the Ambassadors words whilst condemning the leaking of them, but somehow appeasing Trump's wounded pride and wrath? Who gets the impossible task? The Foreign Secretary does. And that just happens to be one Jeremy Hunt, Boris's opponent for PM. }}

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Post by Pettytyrant101 Tue Jul 09, 2019 6:14 pm

{{ update on this.
Boris is doing the follow up work in his plan!

'He said: "I have got a good relationship with the White House and I have no embarrassment in saying that. I think it's very important that we have a strong relationship with our most important ally. The United States is, has been, will be and for the foreseeable future our number one political military friend."

Whilst poor Hunt, having to try to find a stance that will not weaken him in the eyes of Tory voters, who will decide who gets to be PM, seems to have opted for the old Tory position of look strong defending the UK. Even though it risks a rocky relationship with Trump were he to be PM. As he, as I mentioned above, is the one as Foreign Secretary who has to respond to Trumps increasing hostile and disrespectful tweets.

'President Trump, friends speak frankly so I will: these comments are disrespectful and wrong to our Prime Minister and my country. Your diplomats give their private opinions to Secretary Pompeo and so do ours! You said the UK/US alliance was the greatest in history and I agree.  
But allies need to treat each other with respect as Theresa May has always done with you. Ambassadors are appointed by the UK government and if I become PM our Ambassador stays.'- Hunt

This is a Machiavellian master-plan! They have used the Ambassadors assessment of Trump, to know how to manipulate Trump into putting Hunt in the worst possible position during the voting period for PM by the Tory membership, whilst leaking the Ambassadors assessment of Trump to ignite it!
It's kind of impressive.  Twisted Evil }}

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Post by David H Wed Jul 10, 2019 2:30 am

This is a Machiavellian master-plan!
It would seem so the way you've presented it, but do you really believe Boris has those kind of chops?
He's never impressed me with his subtlety, but maybe I've been misjudging him?

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Post by Pettytyrant101 Wed Jul 10, 2019 7:55 am

{{ Boris loves a plot and a scheme. Its all just a big toffs game to him. And never underestimate the deviousness of an upper classes weaned on Shakespeare, and Boris studied Classics.
Boris is a showman, a snake oil salesman, an egotist and a populists, just like Trump, but he is far more intelligent than Trump (not necessarily more practical but in raw intellect Boris is no slouch), dont be taken in by his 'I'm just a harmless floppy haired fool' act!
Check out the books he has written has an example of his intellectual strengths- https://www.amazon.co.uk/Boris-Johnson/e/B000APU92E - reviews forem that page of his book on Churchill-

An engagingly written romp through the elder statesman's greatest achievements. (Observer)

A characteristically breathless romp through the life and times of our greatest wartime leader...high on entertainment as it is on providing an appraisal of the great man's achievements. (Telegraph)

Johnson is a superb writer... Despite the heavy subject matter, The Churchill Factor is a light and quick read. (The Globe and Mail)

Reading about Churchill is always a delight, and Johnson is an accomplished, accessible writer. (Kirkus Reviews)

There is more to Boris than the 'clown' persona he hides behind. }}

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Post by Pettytyrant101 Wed Jul 10, 2019 10:56 am

{{ Last nights debate. Even skipping over the breaks where the ads were its s till over an hour long, so if you dont have time for the whole thing here are two segments I thought worth highlighting.

36.40- 42.30 - The Ambassador thing.

45.50 - 50.55 taxes, Hunt is clever here in getting in some Trump praise, acknowledged by Boris like a fellow chess player acknowledging a good move whilst trying to downplay it as such. And also Boris at his worst- he does not like public criticisms especially to his face and on taxes he is on dodgy ground. And boy does it show that he knows it!  



despite that polling shows Boris still came out ahead by 55 to 45% }}

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Post by Pettytyrant101 Wed Jul 10, 2019 11:01 am


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Post by halfwise Wed Jul 10, 2019 12:12 pm

Wow, a two person debate. How cosy. Hunt is a very polished speaker...or at least the comparison to Boris makes him seem so.

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Post by Pettytyrant101 Wed Jul 10, 2019 1:01 pm

{{{ Yes, Hunt is polished, unfortunately for him its why a lot of folk don't trust him. He is too polished, too much like people idea of a politician, he reminds people of Blair.
Boris on the other-hand plays the role of amiable enthusiastic, optimistic, eccentric mad uncle, meaning no harm, looking out for your best interests and who will bring boundless energy to being PM.
Its a stark contrast to the less seen, less reported on private Boris Johnson.

Hunt sums Boris up pretty well when he says at the end, "You ask Boris a question, he puts a smile on your face, and you forget what the question was. It's a brilliant quality for a politician, maybe not a Prime Minister though.' }}

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Post by David H Wed Jul 10, 2019 6:12 pm



OK then, I have been underestimating the man...that's good to know...
{{{{It sounds like I'm going to need to buy a LOT more popcorn before this is over! Suspect Mad }}}}

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Post by Pettytyrant101 Wed Jul 10, 2019 9:25 pm

{{ Lots of popcorn I fear!
The Ambassador has resigned his post, and his people are putting it out there that the reason for the resignation was Boris failing to support or back him last night in the debate. With Boris frontrunner to be next PM its clear the Ambassador felt he couldn't go on without that backing. And interestingly it came after 'Mr Johnson spoke to Sir Kim on the phone on Wednesday afternoon.'- BBC
I'd love to hear that phone call!

So plan successful.
Now Boris is getting flack right now for not backing the Ambassador, and taking a hit on that, but with over half those eligible to vote in the contest already having voted before the debate, I reckon he is calculating he can weather that, and once he's PM he can put his own pro-Trump, pro-trade deal at any costs Ambassador in there instead.
I'd say this move has come off if your Boris. Mission accomplished. Now trump is in a position to be manipulated by picking an Ambassador he likes. }}

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*Pure Publications reserves the right to track your usage of this publication, snoop on your home address, go through your bins and sell personal information on to the highest bidder.
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Post by halfwise Wed Jul 10, 2019 10:06 pm

It's disheartening that both these candidates felt it necessary to plug their Trump credentials. Has Trumpism even taken over conservatism in Britain? I had hoped to contain the contagion.

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Post by Pettytyrant101 Wed Jul 10, 2019 10:21 pm

{{ Its not about liking Trump, its about appeasing Trump. Both candidates know leaving weakens the UK at least in the short term, they both admit to that but believe once free of the EU they can build better long term. And central to that and crucial to it is a massive trade deal with the US.
Its more necessity than genuine affection.

Here's Boris on Trump when Boris was Mayor of London and Trump was touting his Muslim travel ban. }}






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*Pure Publications reserves the right to track your usage of this publication, snoop on your home address, go through your bins and sell personal information on to the highest bidder.
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