Hobbit Movie Sets , Costumes and M

I have pondered on the movie sets created and the costumes of all the Peter Jackson movies to date and I am wondering if you think that they fit right in to what you have read in the body of work Tolkien did, or is it just a matter of being wowed with what is shown and it imprinting if you will into our minds and the result is that we think it is right.

For me, the main Hobbits are not as they should be, in the fact that it was normal for a Hobbity Gentleman to be rather fat in the stomach. Even Sam to me is not chubby enough in the way that my mind read about them. I know that in the Poirot series with the amazing David Suchet, he wears a 'fat suit' in order to be the same shape as the character. Only once, for some odd reason did they eliminate that when he dressed as a burglar in black and he was very slim. And, even though Elijah in my mind was a very good choice for Frodo, I still think for the first part of the journey he should have had that shape.

And though parts of New Zealand seem very like parts of England, I should liked to have seen it made there, it was after England and English history that Tolkien wanted to honor, could it not have been done? It was accomplished for Sherlock Holmes series, Jane Austen books , etc.
What do you think then?

I thought the set design and costumes were amongst the best thing sin the LotR's films, far better than the script deserved in fact. Hobbits do tend towards the fat and jolly, I think they should have all started out chubbier and got thinner as they went, as happens in the books.

I am in complete agreement about locations however. I don;t think the Shire looks right, it doesnt't look like the sort of English countryside Tolkien is so clearly describing. The colours are wrong, its the wrong sort of grass and trees. And the lighting is wrong, its not northern european lighting. I would much rather have seen (and its dream wishing as expense would most likely prohibit it) different countries used for different parts of Middle Earth. The South and Minas Tirith should be meditarenean in appearance, Rohan needs to be open grass plains (somewhere in America perhaps for that?). And I would also have liked to have seen much stronger regional accents for each of the locations. The viewer should be able to tell just from accent if the speaker is from the North, Rohan or Minas Tirith. All of whom in the book speak quite distinctly from one another.

I could not agree with you more, in fact you described my feelings better than I did. I felt the colors and lighting were not right either and although it was sumptuous beautiful I felt sad for some reason. And using the other places, I absolutely agree to that as well. There are plenty of places in the states and Canada that would have been awesome perfect for the Rohan setting. I feel really if you are going to do a once in a life time experience in film for the entire world and you know you are going to have more than a few pounds, dollars, whatever in return than just go for it. Find a way.

Were the houses, such as Bilbo's or Elronds , the Butterbur pub right do you think?

And I think also that using different accents would have made the experience so much more real and magical. After all when you think on it JRR only wrote the stories to use as a canvas as it were for his languages.

Considering Tolkiens first love was language I thought the films let him down on that front.

As to other locations. I thought the general design of the hobbit holes worked fine, they would have looked better in the right sort of countryside but I have no problems with their design. Bag End should perhaps have been larger and grander, it is after all suposed to be the hobbit equivelant of a manor house, its the big house at the end of the row. And there should have been more houses, holes being by Frodo's time only used by the very rich or the very poor.
I was disappointed in Bree in general, PJ choose to make it more hostile than in the book, its dark, miserable and unfriendly, even old Butterbur is pretty unpleasant. I am a big Butterbur fan, I love his speech mannerisms ("And some folk was killed. Killed dead if youi'll beklieve me."). Pj reduced him to, well nothing really, a slightly unfriendly bloke at the bar.

To be fair Bree plays such an insignificant role in the books, I think PJ was quite right not to stay there for too long- yeah sure, they could have introduced a scene with Bill Ferny with a bit of detail, but that just means for it to make any sense you have to go back there at the end of the film, so time constraints, and that it wouldn't really do anything for the plot, it's understandable- (It would only really make sense if they were going to include the Scouring, and would there really be time to add both for a theatrical film realise? Probably not.) Don't get be wrong, when I read the books I loved Bree, and would have loved to seen it when it's not raining and pitch black! It's the kind of place that I'd love to live in Middle Earth, kind of in the action but not in the action if you catch my meaning!

As for the other locations, well, I never had any problems with them, and none of them detract from my enjoyment from the films (I always liked PJ's Shire, and I never really noticed the accents particularly- which I guess is an issue with you Petty!) but all the points you two have made, I can't disagree with.

Can't remember Lothlorien in detail from the book, but when I first saw it I thought that it was beautiful. Avataresque.

We had an opposite reaction to Lothloiren then - I hated it then and do now. All I could think was Ewoks when I saw it.
"I thought Elves were all for stars and moons but this is more elvish than anything I've heard of, its like being inside a song"-Sam (quoted from memory but its in the ball park) Sam here was referring to the fact Lothlorien was like an eternal srping or summer, all sunshine and green grass. Not all stralight like he expected. So what does PJ give us? Sar light and darkness and etherealness of course- did he even read the description in the book?

Yeah, well as I said I couldn't remember if it was faithful to the book, but I still thought it was lovely! It probably also worked alongside with the impact of Gandalf's death, to keep the sadness if you know what I mean, I think for it to work in the movie it has to be a place that is also sad, maybe? Not sure really. But I found it's mysteriously beautiful, but that's probably because I saw the film before I read the book. But yeah, I accept your point that it is nothing like the books description, but quite possibly it may not have worked as well! (Maybe though, and it could have been better!) Oh, and the EE scene in Lothloiren does have a bit more light, but I expect you know that while you were working on your epic edit project!

Talking of the edit have you seen it yet Saradoc? You really must!
I think Lothlorien would have been more emotional and more powerful if it had been as described in the book. The whole section disappointed me, I thought for a moment PJ had somewhat redemmed himself with the opening of the Mirror scene as the settingis perfect, then I realised he'd dumped Sam and therefore his brilliant dialogue "And there's my poor old gaffer going down the hill with his bits and bobs in a barrow!" And crabbit as I already was by that he then takes arguably the best speech given by a female charcater in LotR's and royally screws it up with a load of unnecessary specail effects- what an insult to the actress that she could not have conveyed in her perfomrance the essence of the book. To slap a big special effect over her killed it stone dead for me.

Trying to think what my impressions were.

Bree was wrong and I think it was to play with the ' it's scary in the real world' idea, but to me the scary thing about Bree for the hobbits was it was enough like home they forgot to be careful, exposing themselves to danger. It is a scarier feeling to suddenly fell vunerable in a place you felt safe, than to go somewhere scary. Missed Butterbur (and bombadil, which also detracted from the Bree effect as it should have been) and Bilbos lines about Strider!!

In fact that was the biggest over reaching problem, the poetry and songs and myth that was removed, destroying the sense of history you get from the books.

Other big issue for me is Rohan, love riding and as plains they are wrong, wrong, wrong. The image of Aragorn, Legolas and Gimli struggling over the slowly shrinking downs into this huge plain leading to the mountains is one I was really struck with when I read the book, it didn't live up to exectations.

Hobbits - too young! and not colourful enough, not plump enough (and as a yorkshire lass), not forthright enough!!

Will think more on this later!

(Should add, for all I moan here I did enjoy the movies in the theatres!)

The Barrow-wight! It was missing. How could that whole scene from Tom's leave taking to the Hobbit's rescue by Tom not be superb movie suspense and horror? Huge opportunity missed. (I won't mention Tom Bombabadil himself. We've argued the toss on that before and left me in tears). (And Old Man Willow -- pathetically moved to Fangorn forest and depersonalized to boot). Actually, the Black Riders were done poorly. In the book the suspense builds and builds. The Black Riders in the movie were not terrifying at all. They were best introduced slowly. Tolkien's mastery not PJ's obviousnesss was better.... Bree was an utter traversty, along with Barliman Butterbur.

Now that my old wounds are opening, I'm suddenly thinking that one of the directors of Jane Austin books would have made a better fist of these movies, with Hitchcock (at his most under stated) for advice on suspense, and PJ (under close restraint) for special effects, and, of course, Me as Tolkien consultant...

Go watch the megaedit Orwell! Proper Black Rider introduction I think you will like.

Agree with everything you say. Sadly.

Pettytyrant101 wrote:Go watch the megaedit Orwell! Proper Black Rider introduction I think you will like.

Agree with everything you say. Sadly.

Here here Petty and Kafria, my sentiments precisely. Despite the beauty of it all, IT WAS ALL WRONG. But, in the end it is the STORY that must stand alone. We can always do what any reader does , just have specific things in our minds. So, that is why I did resent Peter completely twisting things about like the relationship between Rohan and Gondor. What was that about.

Pettytyrant101 wrote:Talking of the edit have you seen it yet Saradoc? You really must!
I think Lothlorien would have been more emotional and more powerful if it had been as described in the book. The whole section disappointed me, I thought for a moment PJ had somewhat redemmed himself with the opening of the Mirror scene as the settingis perfect, then I realised he'd dumped Sam and therefore his brilliant dialogue "And there's my poor old gaffer going down the hill with his bits and bobs in a barrow!" And crabbit as I already was by that he then takes arguably the best speech given by a female charcater in LotR's and royally screws it up with a load of unnecessary specail effects- what an insult to the actress that she could not have conveyed in her perfomrance the essence of the book. To slap a big special effect over her killed it stone dead for me.

I'll watch it this summer; I'm currently away on holiday. Thank PJ for unsecured wi-fi! But it'll definitely be an interesting watch, for sure! But it begs the question though, that such a different vibe could of potentially been given to characters and scenes, and I mean PJ still filmed all of this- maybe it was the fault of the respected editors for each film who didn't really understand Lord of the Rings? Would PJ actually have much input for the theatrical release? Just a thought I had there!

I agree with the effects, they do look extremely dated if you watch them now. And I also think that Cate made a great Galadriel, and she played the part beautifully!

I thought Galadriel was poorly conceived, not the fault of the actress who I thought was excellently cast, but they hadn't a clue how to convey the bit where she 'looks into each of them' and makes each an offer, of course they could have expained it the way Tokien (and the BBC radio play does) by retaining the dialogue amog the compnay afterwards where they discuss it "have a care, I do not trust this Elvish lady" "There is no evil here uness an man brings evil within him, then let him beware". (ohh evil Coven why didn't you just read the blooming book!)
I love the speech Galadriel gives at the mirror but the effects and the manner in which therefore the lines had to be delivered completely ruined it for me, like putting effects all over Hamlet when he does 'to be or not to be', just a travesty and showed again how little regard they seemed to have for Tolkiens own writing.
I would also have liked to see Boromir's distrust of elves and Lothlorien in particular retained, its important as it shows just how far the two races, elves and men have drifted apart, further backed up by the (also missing form the films) scene with Eomer who displays a similar attitude and riles Gimli.