All New Who
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Re: All New Who
by malickfan Wed May 17, 2017 7:33 pm
This might interested you Figgsy, Tennant and Piper are back in 3 new Big Finish audioplays
https://www.bigfinish.com/news/v/doctor-who---the-tenth-doctor
https://www.bigfinish.com/releases/v/the-tenth-doctor-adventures-volume-02-limited-edition-1658
(the three stories can also be bought seperately, and will probably be up for sale on Amazon a few months after their BF release)
(I really enjoyed the first volume they did with 10/Donna, the stories weren't especially groundbreaking but really fun and captured the tone of Series 4 really well, not much of a fan of Series 2 or the 10/Rose team though...so I think I'll be skipping this lot).
https://www.bigfinish.com/news/v/doctor-who---the-tenth-doctor
https://www.bigfinish.com/releases/v/the-tenth-doctor-adventures-volume-02-limited-edition-1658
(the three stories can also be bought seperately, and will probably be up for sale on Amazon a few months after their BF release)
(I really enjoyed the first volume they did with 10/Donna, the stories weren't especially groundbreaking but really fun and captured the tone of Series 4 really well, not much of a fan of Series 2 or the 10/Rose team though...so I think I'll be skipping this lot).
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Well, that was worth the wait wasn't it
I think what comes out of a pig's rear end is more akin to what Peejers has given us-Azriel 20/9/2014
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Re: All New Who
by Mrs Figg Wed May 17, 2017 7:38 pm
malickfan wrote:This might interested you Figgsy, Tennant and Piper are back in 3 new Big Finish audioplays
https://www.bigfinish.com/news/v/doctor-who---the-tenth-doctor
https://www.bigfinish.com/releases/v/the-tenth-doctor-adventures-volume-02-limited-edition-1658
(the three stories can also be bought seperately, and will probably be up for sale on Amazon a few months after their BF release)
(I really enjoyed the first volume they did with 10/Donna, the stories weren't especially groundbreaking but really fun and captured the tone of Series 4 really well, not much of a fan of Series 2 or the 10/Rose team though...so I think I'll be skipping this lot).
cool thanks, I might look into that.
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Re: All New Who
by Pettytyrant101 Fri May 19, 2017 11:40 am
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Re: All New Who
by Pettytyrant101 Sat May 20, 2017 8:24 pm
{{{{ 
Immediate impression of Extremis? Wow This three parter is off to a cracking start 
}}}
Immediate impression of Extremis? Wow This three parter is off to a cracking start }}}_________________
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Re: All New Who
by Amarië Sun May 21, 2017 10:06 pm
Been catching up! Knock knock was a bit... I dunno...
Oxygen and extremis? Now we're talking!!
Oxygen and extremis? Now we're talking!!
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#amarieco
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Re: All New Who
by Pettytyrant101 Sun May 21, 2017 11:09 pm
{{Glad you are enjoying this series Amarie 
More I think about Extremis more complex and interesting it gets.
I was thinking shortly after it that
More I think about Extremis more complex and interesting it gets.I was thinking shortly after it that
- Spoiler:
- unlike every other episode it didn't have an overtly political point to make- until I saw the huge one the story makes!! (its just less overt than it has been of late)
This is partly about agency- we are presented with a false narrative- a book when read drives people to commit suicide because of what they read.
But actually whats more interesting his how 'people' respond to it- when they find themselves faced with the fact they are not in control, not even 'real', that they are just part of the overall system that controls it all they choose to delete themselves from the system. Its an option to opt out.
And in fact for a brief moment before he recalls Missy's last words the Doctor too takes this route- 'just delete me'- but then he acts- he chooses to do what the Doctor would do- never give up- and so ends in triumph- revealing the aliens invasion plans and warning Earth its coming.
But, and here is the clever bit- that huge personal victory is just a tiny strike at the system. It tells the real Doctor little- just that they are coming and they have been practicing invasion on sophisticated simulations of Earth. The shadow Doctors sacrifice doesn't bring down the system, stop the upcoming invasion, free the programs or avoid a war or anything in fact, its just a start. One single voice speaking out against that system, rebelling and hoping to added other voices to theirs, to carry on that protest after their demise, to make a difference.
The political message this episode seems to be make a difference, even if your only one voice and you only ever reach one other person that could be what starts a change. Don't opt out, be heard. Never give up. (oh but first make sure what your voicing is something important, not a mad conspiracy theory that the words controlled by aliens and everyone's a hologram run by lizard people- thats a false narrative and not the important bit- Moff does like to poke fun along the way! )
Clever ole bugger on his day!
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Re: All New Who
by Pettytyrant101 Tue May 23, 2017 3:17 am
{{ Ended up watching Extremis again and just as it took me to till the second viewing to spot where the political message of the week was, so it has taken a third viewing for me to spot the rather more overt theme and commentary on belief.
For me I love Who when its like this, a cracking Who tale on the surface with more under the hood than first meets the eye- its how the show needs to be, though done in the style of the individual writer not necessary this style every week, but in principle- a top layer story for the young uns, a middle layer of depth for the teenagers, and an upper layer for the adults to delve into. Something for all the family.}}}
- Spoiler:
- Rather obvious for an episode that opens with an impromptu Pope visit.
I blame this lack of spotting things on firstly the lack of themes under the main narrative in previous episodes this series, I'm out of practice, and the fact the first time I was simply enjoying the story too much and having my brain continually pulled apart and put back together, and the second time I was too busy wondering about the politics of it. And of course no coincidence it ends in the White House.
Anyhow back to belief. Apart from the aforementioned Pope and the obvious allusions to conspiracy theories via Dan Brown and a Vatican secret library of heretical texts this episode features flashbacks to Missy.
This is important. I want you to cast your mind back to an RTD era finale. The one where Martha travels an Earth ruined by the Master telling everyone the tale of the Doctor, and preparing for the moment when they will all chant his name- using the Masters own psychic network which is subduing rebellion to amplify there thoughts, all focused on one word- The Doctor- transforming the aged Doctor to his former glory and literally resurrecting him in crucifixion pose and halo glow to then offer forgiveness to his enemy. Its an episode about belief and faith, in this case subverted by RTD into being focused not on a religious figure, but on the Doctor.
Whats that got to do with Extremis you might ask? Along with how drunk is he? Well very and Extremis is in a way a spiritual successor to that episode. Its what the Master is doing here, in this particular tale.
Missy in the story is the conveyor of Rivers words written in her diary about why she loves the Doctor. I will give them in full because they are important to the theme of belief and how it plays out-
'Goodness is not goodness that seeks advantage. Good is good in the final hour, in the deepest pit without hope, without witness, without reward. Virtue is only virtue in extremis.
This is what he believes, and this is the reason, above all, I love him.'
At the final crunch, when the shadow Doctor has given up all hope and asks just to be turned off it is Rivers words, repeated back to him by Missy on the executioners block that changes the game, quite literally.
'Funny. I don't believe much. I'm not sure I believe anything. But right now belief is all I am.'
The Shadow Doctor knows what he believes in, he believes in the Doctor, so he does what everyone does who needs help, he calls the Doctor.
But to go back a moment to earlier in proceedings when the Doctor in the Vatican library poses a question- "Priests and Particle Physicists, what could scare them both?"
The answer it turns out is losing belief in themselves. Faced with the truth, that they are merely shadow versions of the real person who thinks they are real because they are programmed too. And who are repeatedly run over and over as the program is and the aliens try different experiments out.
Faced with the knowledge they are not real they chose not be at all by deleting themselves from the game.
Its the opposite choice the Doctor comes too, which is to believe in himself anyway because if one person knows that the 'the Doctor' is not a person but a concept, an ideal to be lived up to its him-
'Oh, you don't have to be real to be the Doctor. Long as you never give up. Long as you always trick the bad guys into their own traps.'
Which brings me back to RTD. In his version of belief and the Doctor it is other peoples belief in him, there belief that he can and will save them, that saves the day. Its Martha tale of all the times he has saved them without ever asking reward or even acknowledgment, and of what he means to her. This coupled with the Doctors belief in humanity is what turns the tide. And in both instances it relies on the Doctor using the enemies own means to trap them- the simulation is too perfect allowing the Doctor to use the replica sonic shades to send out the information to the real version, and in the RTD version its the orbiting satellites that boost the psychic link which allows for the Doctor to defeat the Master.
In Moffats version the belief is personal however not external, not belief in the Doctor, but the Doctors belief- which is fitting of Moffats style of delving more into what makes the Doctor tick.
The Doctor believes in the Doctor. Not in an egotistical sense but in the sense he meant it in the episode with Davros when he says-
"There's no such thing as the Doctor. I'm just a bloke in a box, telling stories. And I didn't come here because I'm ashamed. A bit of shame never hurt anyone. I came because you're sick and you asked. And because sometimes, on a good day, if I try very hard, I'm not some old Time Lord who ran away. I'm the Doctor."
The Doctors final pose in the email message he sends to the real version as the image freezes is a sort of humorous subversion of RTD's 10 in crucifixion pose, with 12, arms outspread, shades in place and grinning like a happy loon.
And yet whilst it in its own way plays a little humour with the pomposity of the overt religous symbolism in the RTD belief story in its final act, its clearly not in malice. Moffat likes to have fun and he does so at the expense of conspiracy theorists too.
Like the RTD story it is based around the friendship/hatred that exists between the Doctor and the Master and the bond they have since childhood.
There is a comparison to be made between the Simms Master dying in the Doctors arms and refusing to regenerate as a last act of defiance and hurt to the Doctor, and how Missy approaches her own imminent death at the hands of the Doctor as executioner- she tries the usual tricks first of false pleading, but at the last, in extremis, its their friendship she turns to, knowing it will make no difference, he is going to do it anyway and he says so "I know. It makes no difference." Before pulling the execution lever.
And in the Simms incarnation version it was of course just another trick, he had a survival plan in place in extremis.
I suspect even with her sincere admitting of being his friend above all else, she has not changed and is again playing tricks.
But that scene could not play out as it does without the Simm scene first. Its a continuation of that story in many ways.
For me I love Who when its like this, a cracking Who tale on the surface with more under the hood than first meets the eye- its how the show needs to be, though done in the style of the individual writer not necessary this style every week, but in principle- a top layer story for the young uns, a middle layer of depth for the teenagers, and an upper layer for the adults to delve into. Something for all the family.}}}
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Re: All New Who
by malickfan Thu May 25, 2017 7:09 pm
This is interesting, does this confirm the BBC have plans for series 12-15?:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/mediacentre/worldwide/2017/doctor-who-china
It only confirms this gives Shanghigh media group first option on the broadcast rights should the show be renewed for four more series but it certainly implies the BBC remains confident of the show and its success.
Moffat mentioned in an interview a couple of years ago the BBC had plans for Who through to 2020, though this could have changed as he didn't originally intend to stay on showrunner for Series 10...though it appears Chibnall was always high on the list of candidates the BBC wanted to take over, he certainly seems to be the only man who wanted the job perhaps he has been signed to a 5 series contract? Taking into account the breaks between series, I think it's quite likely the show will still be around to celebrate its 60th Anniversary.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/mediacentre/worldwide/2017/doctor-who-china
The deal not only covers Showrunners Russell T Davies and Steven Moffat’s Series 1- 10, but also incoming Showrunner Chris Chibnall’s yet-to-film Series 11, as well as a first look for Series 12-15.
It only confirms this gives Shanghigh media group first option on the broadcast rights should the show be renewed for four more series but it certainly implies the BBC remains confident of the show and its success.
Moffat mentioned in an interview a couple of years ago the BBC had plans for Who through to 2020, though this could have changed as he didn't originally intend to stay on showrunner for Series 10...though it appears Chibnall was always high on the list of candidates the BBC wanted to take over, he certainly seems to be the only man who wanted the job perhaps he has been signed to a 5 series contract? Taking into account the breaks between series, I think it's quite likely the show will still be around to celebrate its 60th Anniversary.
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Well, that was worth the wait wasn't it
I think what comes out of a pig's rear end is more akin to what Peejers has given us-Azriel 20/9/2014
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Re: All New Who
by Mrs Figg Fri May 26, 2017 9:51 pm
I watched Thin Ice and Extremis. Thin Ice was very derivative, and I preferred Extremis apart from the meaningless gobbledegook.
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Re: All New Who
by Pettytyrant101 Fri May 26, 2017 11:31 pm
{{Did you miss Oxygen?}}
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Re: All New Who
by Mrs Figg Sat May 27, 2017 9:18 pm
yep.
I just watched Extremis 2, the Revenge of the Politically Correct Support Actor.
what next? Black Lesbians with one leg?..whoops...nearly
apart from the horrific wooden acting from said support actor it was quite good. quite entertaining towards the end. moral of the story, never put a very short person in a very large white bubble suit. its silly.
I just watched Extremis 2, the Revenge of the Politically Correct Support Actor.
what next? Black Lesbians with one leg?..whoops...nearlyapart from the horrific wooden acting from said support actor it was quite good. quite entertaining towards the end. moral of the story, never put a very short person in a very large white bubble suit. its silly.
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Re: All New Who
by Eldorion Sat May 27, 2017 9:44 pm
Mrs Figg wrote:yep.
I just watched Extremis 2, the Revenge of the Politically Correct Support Actor.
apart from the horrific wooden acting from said support actor it was quite good. quite entertaining towards the end. moral of the story, never put a very short person in a very large white bubble suit. its silly.
What does the quality of any particular performance have to do with "political correctness"?
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Re: All New Who
by Pettytyrant101 Sat May 27, 2017 10:02 pm
{{I liked her. Dont see what was politically correct about it. The role could have been played by an actor of any stature, it was irrelevant. I would have been annoyed if her height had somehow figured into events or the plot, but it didn't. She was a scientist, who worked in GM lab, and happened to be a dwarf. Dont see the issue. 
Cracking middle part of the story though, goes just like a middle part should- in the same direction as lots excrement does towards a rapid air movement device! }}}}}
Cracking middle part of the story though, goes just like a middle part should- in the same direction as lots excrement does towards a rapid air movement device! }}}}}
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Re: All New Who
by Pettytyrant101 Sat May 27, 2017 10:04 pm
yep.- Figg
{{Hold on you missed Oxygen? But... didn't you think
{{Hold on you missed Oxygen? But... didn't you think
- Spoiler:
- when the next episode you watched started with a blind Doctor that you might have missed a bit?!
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Re: All New Who
by Mrs Figg Sat May 27, 2017 10:19 pm
Eldorion wrote:Mrs Figg wrote:yep.
I just watched Extremis 2, the Revenge of the Politically Correct Support Actor.
apart from the horrific wooden acting from said support actor it was quite good. quite entertaining towards the end. moral of the story, never put a very short person in a very large white bubble suit. its silly.
What does the quality of any particular performance have to do with "political correctness"?
because its Moffat.
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Re: All New Who
by Pettytyrant101 Sat May 27, 2017 10:28 pm
{{It was a Harness episode, Moffat has cowriting credits- he had that episode 2 of the Zygon story last series as well that Harness wrote, and all Moffat wrote for that was the amazing speech everyone remembers from it at the end! }}
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Re: All New Who
by malickfan Mon May 29, 2017 1:05 pm
In more Big Finish news, they've announced 3 more 8th Doctor Time War Boxsets:
https://www.bigfinish.com/news/v/the-big-finish-sunday-digest
(BF had finished writing the scripts for a second run of War Doctor stories but Hurt died just before he was due to record them, wouldn't be surprised if they rewrite them for the 8th Doctor, I wonder if they can persuade Timothy Dalton to return as Rasslion?, he wanted to return for Series 9 but couldn't due to a scheduling clash)
https://www.bigfinish.com/news/v/the-big-finish-sunday-digest
(BF had finished writing the scripts for a second run of War Doctor stories but Hurt died just before he was due to record them, wouldn't be surprised if they rewrite them for the 8th Doctor, I wonder if they can persuade Timothy Dalton to return as Rasslion?, he wanted to return for Series 9 but couldn't due to a scheduling clash)
_________________
The Thorin: An Unexpected Rewrite December 2012 (I was on the money apparently)
The Tauriel: Desolation of Canon December 2013 (Accurate again!)
The Sod-it! : Battling my Indifference December 2014 (You know what they say, third time's the charm)
Well, that was worth the wait wasn't it
I think what comes out of a pig's rear end is more akin to what Peejers has given us-Azriel 20/9/2014
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Re: All New Who
by Pettytyrant101 Thu Jun 01, 2017 8:36 am
{{{ Rachel Talalay is back directing Who- she has got the xmas episode gig 
Ive enjoyed all her work on Who, Heaven Sent in particular was a brilliant piece of directing. }}}
Ive enjoyed all her work on Who, Heaven Sent in particular was a brilliant piece of directing. }}}_________________
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Re: All New Who
by Pettytyrant101 Sun Jun 04, 2017 7:36 pm
{{{{ Ok Lie of the land-
- Spoiler:
- well thats was my least favourite episode so far this series. Not actually bad but I found it underwhelming for a conclusion to a three part story and it had too many odd issues, which Moffat era Who has generally avoided till now- but I will get to those shortly.
First what I liked- everything to do with 12 and Missy- I haven't enjoyed a Doctor/Master relationship this much since the original Pertwee/Delgado era. Missy's summing up of the Doctors version of good is the best writing in the episode by a mile.
The design and the direction- both excellent. From the rubbish bag strewn streets of a dystopian Britain to the Monks big screen room all looked spot on. Prosthetic design this series has been superb too, so credit there.
There is some good dialogue, Nardole is delightful whenever he is about and in a broad sense the plot and resolution do work.
On the otherhand there are some issues I have- I dont think the Bill narration works well and make sit feel like an adaption of a BF production at points. Given this is three parter we should not have to resort to narration- there should have been time to show us this.
The fake-out regeneration. The scene makes sense- the Doctor testing to make sure Bill isn't a trap for him to betray his real feelings makes sense- what doesn't is him going as far as to waste regen energy faking a regen because Bill, the target of all this deception, doesn't know what regeneration is yet and has never seen it.
This means there is no in-world reason for the Doctor to do it I can see. And its purpose is not to deceive Bill but to deceive the audience- and that only works if there's a legit reason for it in-world too which there isn't.
This is really rare in Moffat era- many people complain of plot holes in Moffat era but actually there are very few indeed. Answers do come eventually. Things that happen happen according to the rules set out in the narrative- see why he cant go back for Amy and Rory even now he fixed New York for travel again (a favourite of plot hole pointers even though its not one and fully explained by the rules laid out in the narrative).
But here this is not the case.
Likewise with the ending. Fine the Monks wipe themselves from everyone's memory- but what about all the people arrested or killed in the six months they were there?- shouldn't the streets still be covered in all their propaganda still,the posters and the like?- wouldn't recordings of the Doctors broadcasts still exist? We hear of labour camps what came of them then them? Weren't people wondering when they came out of it why they were in labour camp, or why they were guarding one? Again there is no in world explanation for it. And that's twice, in big ways in the same episode something which rarely happens at all in Moffat era Who.
Then there is the issue with how the Monks work- fine they work through the one person that gives th em the power too- and its passe on down through the generations so the Monks stay in control. But the idea if the lynchpin is killed or just doesn't breed the Monks just bugger off and chalk it up to experience seems ludicrous.
And there is also no explanation for the why the Monk on the ship after staring right at Bill doesn't know she is the lynch-pin- there's only 12 monks and they were all there when she did it. Holes everywhere where normally there aren't holes. Its all so odd and unlike the norm.
In many ways it an odd episode, it didn't drag in anyway for me, it clipped along fine and my emotions did get effected and go up and down as the plot intended them- on that level it worked- but there were just to many cases were it didn't feel legit, where the events seem staged for the audience and not organically from the events of the characters.
In the end its a three parter that ends with a bit of a whimper and rather quickly- and all the stuff that seems like it could have been interesting- the Doctor spreading propaganda for the Monks whilst secretly deprogramming his guards one by one, Bill's life under the Monks as she forgets and remembers continuously whats going- on the crimes, its not even clear whats illegal exactly but would be good to have seen more of how the Monks were actually running things. It was a lovely idea there is in fact only 12 of them, but its never really made use of. We only see 1 of any note in this episode and he is hooked up the machine and just sits there the whole time so there is no sense of defeating the Monks as there is no direct confrontation with them after all this. In short for a three parter the end still feels rushed and a lot of the more interesting aspects of the world created underdeveloped.
Like I say its not actually a bad episode, you cant point to any one thing and say that's a massive plot hole it doesn't work or that's a terrible performance it ruins the whole thing- but its full of little niggles and ultimately a bit flat by the resolution.
Give that one a grudging 7- very nearly was a 6 but there is just enough good stuff and the over-ll plot does make sense even if I found that sense disappointing to scrape a 7. Lowest mark of the series form me so far! }}}
I would say hoping for a return to this series form next week but its Gatiss episode next week and despite the fact it appears to set on Mars he has somehow still managed to get a bunch of Victorians in there somehow
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Re: All New Who
by Mrs Figg Sun Jun 04, 2017 10:43 pm
oh no not Gatiss. 
haven't watched this one yet.
haven't watched this one yet.
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Re: All New Who
by Amarië Wed Jun 07, 2017 11:47 am
Lie of the land was... well, it's pretty much what Petty said. Reminded me a bit of RTD's crazy Master story with Bill in Martha's place. Intentional? Just me?
Nardole is great though. I love Nardole. Nardole is gold.
Gatiss and Victorians though... More than a little bit sceptic.
Nardole is great though. I love Nardole. Nardole is gold.
Gatiss and Victorians though... More than a little bit sceptic.
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#amarieco
One does not simply woke into Mordor.
-Mrs Figg
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-Marcus Aurelius
#amarieco
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Re: All New Who
by Pettytyrant101 Wed Jun 07, 2017 7:18 pm
{{{This seems to be what happens when Moffat doesn't have full editorial oversight, in this case due to tragic circumstances- Moffat did work on the first two parts of this story but was unable to do so on the final part on account of his mother sadly passing away at the time.
This may explain why parts of this episode, in particular the Bill voice over stuff feels somewhat like a placeholder- almost they just turned parts of the script that were actually synopsis into dialogue.
It might also explain the plot inconsistencies I pointed out which are in general very unusual to Moffat era Who. }}}}
This may explain why parts of this episode, in particular the Bill voice over stuff feels somewhat like a placeholder- almost they just turned parts of the script that were actually synopsis into dialogue.
It might also explain the plot inconsistencies I pointed out which are in general very unusual to Moffat era Who. }}}}
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Re: All New Who
by Pettytyrant101 Thu Jun 08, 2017 1:01 am
{{Got to say seems very, well Gatiss. Though in fairness to him last time he tackled the Ice Warriors (in fact it was him brought them back) it was pretty well done, nothing outstanding but Cold War as a solid enough little base under siege style episode. }}}
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Re: All New Who
by malickfan Fri Jun 09, 2017 4:19 pm
Apparently the read through for Capaldi's last episode was yesterday.
A rumour about it's content has been posted on Gallifreybase:
Which I find rather hard to believe...though Big Finish did something similar in ''Circular Time: Winter'' which is
A rumour about it's content has been posted on Gallifreybase:
- Spoiler:
- Twelve trust Missy at the end of this current series and it leads to a lot of chaos. She betrays him and kills a lot of people. He dies but chooses not to regenerate.
Moffat views Twelve as the Doctor that's so desperate to be a good man and see the good in others that he makes a fatal mistake. I think this is kind of cynical and nasty for Who but whatever.
The Christmas special is basically a Christmas Carol again with Capaldi reflecting on his past, present and future. Get ready for Bradley as Hartnell in his past with special guest star Susan. Bill as his present. And then we meet the new Doctor as his future with hints of what's to come.
This is Moffats love letter to Doctor Who with appearances from all past Doctors in some form. The return of the idea of the Doctor leaving a scar when he dies that traces his life.
The big twist is that you won't just meet one future Doctor but a couple. The Curator returns? Maybe. But I think it's literally two new actors showing up as the next two regenerations.
Which I find rather hard to believe...though Big Finish did something similar in ''Circular Time: Winter'' which is
- Spoiler:
- actually set inside the 5th Doctor's mind during his regeneration in The Caves Of Androzani
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The Tauriel: Desolation of Canon December 2013 (Accurate again!)
The Sod-it! : Battling my Indifference December 2014 (You know what they say, third time's the charm)
Well, that was worth the wait wasn't it
I think what comes out of a pig's rear end is more akin to what Peejers has given us-Azriel 20/9/2014
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