Petty's Purist LotR Edits [4]

So you noticed the very similar melody line then petty? ... I just want to make sure I'm not hearing something that isn't really there. I mean since I am a huge fan of the R&B cartoon version. That melody floating throughout the Gollum scene was just a part that I personally found haunting. With the Howard Shore score that melody for me just pulled me completely into the scene. Which I'm sure was done deliberately. The one thing I found on point with the book, which feels done unintentionally.

What was missing from the scene in Peter Jackson's version was Bilbo reminding himself of his warm hearth, and eggs and bacon frying on his stove top. I dearly missed that part of Bilbo in the live action version. Not so much an external monolog but an internal one for him, throughout the whole of the film series. I mean not something difficult to do if set up properly. Bilbo continuously questions himself for coming on this adventure (something film Bilbo never really does unless confronted) ... which never made sense to me. Jackson will have Gandalf force sting upon him which is something the actual character from the book wanted but won't leave in his mumblings about not wanting to come on this adventure and about missing his nice cozy hole in the ground. Talk about a role reversal, making the character who in the story wants one thing, but making up a story having the character act the exact opposite why it was written by the author. AND MAYBE IT'S THE DRUGS TALKING but I just get confused when all the fine details are there to be used but are completely misused by the person adapting the source material. Making the plot point into something different all together.... But hey the mass public is totally cool with Bilbo killing Wargs and goblins already, the non Tolkien fans are OK with Bilbo waving a sword around to stop Azor from killing Thorin, conscious decisions made by Jackson that, for me, undermine the heart of the whole story.

Ive never actually scene the Rankin Hobbit film save clips here and there- but there is certainly a similarity in that bit of music.

I havenever understood how PJ adapts because often he just doesn't bother. I though LotR's were terribly adapted films, so you can imagine how bad I think TH films are on that count.

One of the things I like best about the purist edits is the restoration of at least part of Bilbo's arc- he doesnt kill anything until the spiders, and Thorin is a crabbit useless leader again allowing Bilbo to come int his own more again (especially when you remove al the other crap so the story stays focused on Bilbo).

One area I am particularly interested in folks thoughts on is leaving some of the WC, Dol Guldur and Radagast stuff in it.

I originally cut all of that out, and its largely only still there as a precaution incase the third film makes it impossible to leave out entirely.

How did those bits sit for you Sin?

Actually I am fine with those parts missing to be honest. I'm quite happy to have Bilbo back as the main character in his own story again.

Do the bits that I left in- Radagast at home with the spiders attacking (but minus hedgehog!) the abbreviated WC scene, and Gandalf going into Dol Guldur seem to work and make sense?

I left what happens hanging as I thought it was appallingly bad story telling on PJ's part to overshadow the big bad of Bilbo' story, Smaug, with an even bigger bad not related to his story at all.
SO my aim is not to reveal the Necro is Sauorn until the latest point possible.

It worked for me ! & yes, you should keep the audience wondering & you should keep the trump card hidden till the last moment, sadly peejers doesnt seem ( or want to ) understand this little theory, it escapes him somehow ? Just have endless unnecessary monologues & endless scenarios thrown at the audience, do it quick then they can fall ( back ) asleep for the rest.

it escapes him somehow ?- Azriel

Like Beorn this is another thing about these films I have a hard time getting my head around.
This is writing for dummies stuff, real basics.
If you have a story about someone who goes on a quest to steal from a dragon, you don't then introduce an even bigger bad guy that the main character of the story is completely oblivious to the existence of.
They can clumsily try to tie it in with Sauron wants to use Smaug, Sauron sends the army thats in the fight at the end- but it doesn't change the fact the hero of the tale doesn't know anything about it, have anything to do with it, or directly interacts with that story.
All you do is overshadow Smaug and even Thorin's stubborn greed as the big enemies the hero has to overcome and succeed against.
Its just awfu stroy telling.

And this is why peejers for all his flash,bang,wallop will NEVER in my book be a good director/producer.....ever....unless he gets his fooking head in gear & lines it up with instinct. And, I DO dare to say, he gets away from the 2 "F's"....Fran & Phillipa ( Ph I know )

Petty is right (for once ) all this WC, Azog, Sauron flim flam detracts from Bilbo and Smaug, the main characters of the story.

Petty is right (for once )- Figg

Well after 30609 posts it was bound to happen eventually

not a moment too soon.

Pettytyrant101 wrote:Its just awfu stroy telling.

I'm not sure why you describe it in Greco-Welsh, Petty, but I agree wholeheartedly!

I was eating tofu. (OK I admit it, I have no real idea what tofu is, can you deep fry it?)

Pettytyrant101 wrote: (OK I admit it, I have no real idea what tofu is, can you deep fry it?)

Yes actually. It's not quite as insipid that way.

I think it was Greco-Buckie.

my son loves Tofu and Yes you can deep fry it. Me personally have never tried it and don't ever plan on trying it. I don't meat substitutes. Give me a nice sirloin steak slow cooked on the grill. Which you can also do with Tofu cook it on the grill.

Like I said I have never eaten Tofu nor will I ever

tofu is nice tasting and good for you.

Mrs Figg wrote:tofu is nice tasting and good for you.

BARF!!! I don't care about good for me, I care about taste and the smell of it alone says i don't like the taste Give me a good thick medium rare sirloin steak on the grill seasoned just right with some garlic, paprika, and seasoning salt MMM MMM MMM

I'd rather get my protein from other sources, thanks though!

Err.. How to sum up.. Saw it. Thought it great. That ought to do.  

Really liked how you cut together the Mirkwood part must have taken a lot of work. And if you're going to include any of the added storylines, the White Council one is the only one that makes sense in the context of Tolkien.  

It still have some inherent problems because of issues with the original. Cutting away so much of the ending with Bilbo and Smaug leaves the film falling a bit flat. You spend over two hours getting to the Lonely Mountain and then everything is solved in less than 10 minutes. Now that is because of the absolute lack of usable material, I'd agree.

I really like your cut for AUJ. I struggled a lot with the original cut of that movie, and your cut kind of made it watchable for me. But the beggining of your cut in comparison to the ending seems overlong, and the film seems to use an age to get going compared to where it ends up. These are inherent issues originating in the flaws of Jacksons original though. The part with Bilbo and Smaug is a substanital, and, in my opinion, one of the best, part of the books. And it was cut include a pointless overlong chase scene.

It will be interesting how it looks with Bo5As added.

Thanks Blue- glad you enjoyed this cut a bit more, thats basically the aim after all to 'fix' the issues as much as possible and make it feel closer to source material.

Mirkwood went through about half a dozen versions to get one I was happy enough with and which still had some sort of flow to it rather than being too choppy (its still a bit choppy but I ran out of useable material!).

A large part of the problem re Bilbo and Smaug is that a sizable chunk of their conversation is in service to the invented PJ material and nothing to do with the book or the plot (And I mean just the talking bit not even the stupid action stuff that I cut out) this leaves even less Smaug of course.
I am hoping when I add BOFA and Smaug leaving the mountain is no longer the end of the film it wont seem so bad.

'the film seems to use an age to get going compared to where it ends up.'

Well look on the bright side its a hell of a lot shorter than in PJ's cut to get going, cant remember exactly off hand but I think Bilbo leaves home in the purist edit about 20 minutes sooner than in PJ's cut.

Pettytyrant101 wrote:Thanks Blue- glad you enjoyed this cut a bit more, thats basically the aim after all to 'fix' the issues as much as possible and make it feel closer to source material.

You made the mess the originals was into a watchable movie. I'd call that quite the achievement. Also I love some of your editing choices. Like Mirkwood, that I already mentioned, how you cut the barrel ride sequence down to about 20 seconds, and the whole Smaug Bilbo conversation. All really well done considering what you had to work with.

Pettytyrant101 wrote:Mirkwood went through about half a dozen versions to get one I was happy enough with and which still had some sort of flow to it rather than being too choppy (its still a bit choppy but I ran out of useable material!).

Yeah, as I said, I thought that was really well done. A creation of your own completely seperate from Jacksons original cut.

I still think it lacks a semblance of time passing. They do seem to walk through Mirkwood in just about a day. And the atmosphere doesn't really get time to establish itself in either version. Also, it's a shame they left out the whole lights in the forest, elven parties, lights going out part, I think that might have made great movie moments. You would have thought that was the kind of stuff Jackson might have enjoyed doing. And it was cut in favour of what? That's the part that leaves you shaking your head.

Pettytyrant101 wrote:A large part of the problem re Bilbo and Smaug is that a sizable chunk of their conversation is in service to the invented PJ material and nothing to do with the book or the plot (And I mean just the talking bit not even the stupid action stuff that I cut out) this leaves even less Smaug of course.

Yeah, I'm completely aware you didn't have much to work with there.

Pettytyrant101 wrote:I am hoping when I add BOFA and Smaug leaving the mountain is no longer the end of the film it wont seem so bad.

Yeah, though it doesn't sound like there will be much worth adding. Hopefully the Smaug to Laketown part will be good.

Pettytyrant101 wrote:Well look on the bright side its a hell of a lot shorter than in PJ's cut to get going, cant remember exactly off hand but I think Bilbo leaves home in the purist edit about 20 minutes sooner than in PJ's cut.

Yeah, I still struggle through that a bit in either version. Though yours is a lot better. I would consider cutting more, and perhaps have no flashbacks, but it's probably better to make a judgement when the last part is included.

And it was cut in favour of what? That's the part that leaves you shaking your head. - Blue

I couldn't agree more. If I had to say why I thought they left it out my answer would be PJ keeps everything incredibly simple, black and white, no grey (which is ironic in Mirkwood).
So in PJ's simple narrative Mirkwood has to be dark and dangerous, or light and elvish. It cant have both.
And as he has the spiders and he made the Necromancer the true big bad of the story it cant be light, or have anything whimsical or overly magical- it has to be dark, evil and oppressive all the time.


I would consider cutting more, and perhaps have no flashbacks, but it's probably better to make a judgement when the last part is included. - Blue

I probably could lose the flashback- the main reason for its inclusion is that I was under the impression from the amount of time it gets in the films overall that the windlas was going to be part of the plot, but seemingly it doesn't even make an appearence in the final film.

It's a real shame. Because it's just those moments that might have made the Hobbit a great movie. And introduced some much needed wonder and awe. But I guess Peter Jackson does gravitate in the opposite direction.

Mrs Figg wrote:I think it was Greco-Buckie.

Aaaaaaaah.... as always (sometimes) you make perfect sense, Ms Julia.

Bluebottle wrote:...Peter Jackson does gravitate in the opposite direction.

Is that even possible?