Re: Saruman knows about Frodo?

by Pettytyrant101 Wed Jan 08, 2014 8:23 am

I dont remember that line! scratch

by Ringdrotten Wed Jan 08, 2014 8:29 am

Reread the chapter Very Happy

by Pettytyrant101 Wed Jan 08, 2014 8:40 am

Did CS Lewis write that bit? Very Happy

by RA Wed Jan 08, 2014 10:34 am

Sounds about right.

by richardbrucebaxter Wed Jan 08, 2014 10:55 am

(continued) "... The path that you have set him on can only lead to death."

by Bluebottle Wed Jan 08, 2014 3:56 pm

Pettytyrant101 wrote:I dont remember that line!

I think it's from Peter Jacksons Middle Earth Christmas Experience ... on ice. Laughing

by Pettytyrant101 Wed Jan 08, 2014 7:17 pm

That day probably will come. Evil or Very Mad

by halfwise Wed Jan 08, 2014 9:19 pm

richardbrucebaxter wrote:(continued) "... The path that you have set him on can only lead to death."

Sounds like Saruman did have pretty complete knowledge - and given petty's note that gandalf told him about the ring I guess I have to accept it. But I sure to wish Saruman would stop talking about death. I don't think he ever even used the word in the books.

by richardbrucebaxter Wed Jan 08, 2014 10:37 pm

It doesn't make sense..

by Radaghast Thu Jan 09, 2014 4:41 am

Bluebottle wrote:
Pettytyrant101 wrote:I dont remember that line!

I think it's from Peter Jacksons Middle Earth Christmas Experience ... on ice.

Yule be sorry...

Sofa

by richardbrucebaxter Thu Jan 09, 2014 8:10 am

If Saruman was expecting a covert mission to destroy the ring at Mt Doom would he not have posted a permanent guard at the secret stairs? He had troops in this region already. And it would imply Gandalf's understanding of the enemy's knowledge was incorrect - unless Saruman somehow derived the plan during the attack at Helm's Deep.

by halfwise Thu Jan 09, 2014 12:39 pm

Just one of many ill thought out changes the scriptwriters made.

by Bluebottle Thu Jan 09, 2014 4:33 pm

Hey, that's how you win Oscars. Laughing

by richardbrucebaxter Thu Jan 09, 2014 5:14 pm

And no Uruk-hai posted at Mt Doom..

I suspect the best explanation might involve Saruman reading minds at short distances. Perhaps it has something to do with the change; "Do not let him speak, or put a spell upon us!” -> "Do not let him speak. He will put a spell on us!"?

by Eldorion Thu Jan 09, 2014 6:01 pm

I'm not sure how Saruman was supposed to station troops in Mordor. I don't think he would have alerted Sauron unless it was too late for him to do anything (ie, the Ringbearer had entered Mordor and was beyond the reach of Saruman's forces), but by that point Saruman had been defeated and was out of Sauron's good graces anyway.

In the movies, it might have made more sense for Saruman to tell Sauron since he seemed more of a servant, but in the book at least he had pretensions of being Sauron's equal and wanted the Ring for himself.

by Pettytyrant101 Thu Jan 09, 2014 10:58 pm

I cant remember exactly where Gandalf says it but somewhere he said of Saruman that he "studied the arts of the enemy too closely.' and that was part of what led to his downfall.
I always got the impression Sarumans plan A was not to seize the Ring, I think that was plan B when Plan A failed, which was to make his own Ring of Power and it was trying to gain the knowledge of how to do that (which may have started as a genuine desire to understand better the weapon of the Enemy in order to defeat him) which first corrupted him.