Re: Homosexuality

by Lorient Avandi Fri Dec 09, 2011 8:14 pm

Well, when he is giving the Sermon, he has not yet atoned for the sins of the world. The word fulfil could mean a variety of different things and the Rest of the chapter does not really signal one definition over the others. He very well could have been replacing or changing the law.

by Pettytyrant101 Fri Dec 09, 2011 8:18 pm

So what does your religion (and this is also to anyone else of a different christian denomination) Lorient say for why God/Jesus needed sacrifces in the first place? And why did He change His mind about them?

by Lorient Avandi Fri Dec 09, 2011 8:33 pm

Since that is starting a new topic, we might as well move this to the religion thread

by **Orwell** Fri Dec 09, 2011 9:17 pm

Mrs Figg wrote:I think discussions about the complexities of organized religion are interesting, but I think what is important is the spiritual nature of humans, why we need religion in the first place. its easy to get bogged down with the technicalities and forget its all just about being nice to each other and having a good set of moral compasses to life. whether you are atheist or an orthodox Jew, when the shit hits the fan we all need meaning and comfort, and that is what religion gives us, all the rest is just an excuse to batter each other over the head with theology.

You sound very much like my mother, Mrs Figg. (Sweet Illuvatar! I hope you're NOT my mother! Shocked

)

I know you guys have wandered far since my last post, but Lorient still hasn't answered my question. Have the Mormons thrown out the Old Testament?

by Lorient Avandi Fri Dec 09, 2011 10:21 pm

No, definitely not.

by **Orwell** Fri Dec 09, 2011 10:26 pm

But Jesus made the Law obsolete! So at least that part needs to be edited out, surely...

by Lorient Avandi Fri Dec 09, 2011 10:32 pm

I don't believe so, it's a great reference to the trials the Israelites brought on themselves. Reading through the Law is extremely boring, but what can you do.

by **Orwell** Fri Dec 09, 2011 10:42 pm

Why bother with obsolete stuff? If even God has moved on, why persist with it yourself?

by Lorient Avandi Sat Dec 10, 2011 3:00 am

To perhaps be grateful we did not live then. The more obvious answer is to learn from what happened in the OT.

by Eldorion Fri Dec 30, 2011 11:25 pm

In other news: Catholics. You can always count on them to be standing by with stinging condemnations of everyone but themselves. Very Happy

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/12/29/cardinal-george-stands-by_n_1174531.html

TL;DR - the Archbishop of Chicago compared the gay rights movement to the KKK because, he says, both of them wanted to stifle the "religious freedom" of Catholics. (((And yes, I know I'm making an unfair generalization in the first sentence of this post. It's hyperbole.)))

by **Orwell** Sat Dec 31, 2011 12:51 am

Oh the religious do make you laugh. Very Happy

by halfwise Tue Feb 07, 2012 11:05 pm

Eldorion wrote:
Lorient Avandi wrote:God created Adam and Eve, not Adam and Steve.

If God created only Adam and Eve, then he would have necessitated incest between their offspring, and he is really in no position to be condemning other people for their sexuality.

Try as I might, I simply can't come up with anything to top that.

And yet this thread is sort of irresistable, so I'll try to make an incremental contribution.
I'll admit I haven't read through all 20 pages of this thread, so I may be repeating what someone else said. But I believe the whole *theological* christian resistance to homosexuality comes from a single verse in Leviticus or something similar. Might be one other verse somewhere. But the point is, it's surrounded by a whole mass of other things christians very happily ignore, as it's outmoded jewish law that most jews ignore as well.

So what it comes down to, is the christian resistance to homosexuality is based on a cherry picked verse, the choice of which probably came from socially inbuilt social repugnance. If there was an equal social bias against eating peanut butter and it just happened to be in that long list of laws, that's what would be zeroed in on while all the rest was ignored.

As for my personal feelings, since I haven't a theological bone in my body or this argument, I just have to resort to my gut reactions. I have tempered my gut reactions by the realization that if you manage to remove all hormonal reactions (a little difficult at times), sex is pretty disgusting. If you don't believe me, stop thinking about that comely creature that pops into your mind at the word "sex" and replace it with someone of the appropriate sex, but not attractive in the least. Suddenly the thought of sex is nauseating. So if two guys are doing something I may find nauseating, I just have to remember I don't have the hormones for it, while they do.

So there it is, sex is great ONLY because we walk around doped out of our minds with hormones, but the hormonal responses are provoked differently in different people. How did morals get into this?

by **Orwell** Tue Feb 07, 2012 11:14 pm

Maybe one day we'll be able to take the hormone pills of our choice, just in case we want to experiment. Very Happy

I'm a believer in people being who and what they are, and good luck to all, but for all that, I'm still a bit disturbed by what I just said... Shocked

by Pettytyrant101 Wed Feb 08, 2012 5:30 am

How did morals get into this?- David

Via a delusionary belief in an invisible, unprovable omnipotent fag-hater! Very Happy

(Hard to believe that sentence is true when you write it down! Shocked

)

by David H Wed Feb 08, 2012 6:18 am

How did David get into this? - David

by **Orwell** Wed Feb 08, 2012 6:21 am

David H wrote:How did David get into this? - David

I'm lost.

by Pettytyrant101 Wed Feb 08, 2012 6:54 am

Um sure I was quoting you from soemwhere?! scratch

You didnt delete a post did you? Shrugging

It could just be that I'm just awake and still half asleep of course. Obviously need my first few buckies of the day to settle in or something.

by David H Wed Feb 08, 2012 7:28 am

Nope. I never posted to this thread until you dragged my name into it. I don't have a dog in this fight. I'm just rooting form the cheap seats.

by Pettytyrant101 Wed Feb 08, 2012 7:30 am

Excellent I'm going mad again- buckie levels must have dipped. (weird thing is I dont type out quotes I'm lazy so I just highlight, copy and paste- so where the hell did I get it from?! scratch

)

by **Orwell** Wed Feb 08, 2012 7:32 am

David H wrote:Nope. I never posted to this thread until you dragged my name into it. I don't have a dog in this fight. I'm just rooting form the cheap seats.

So long as you're not rooting in the cheap seats, Davo. I'm not catching any space flight with a man of cheap tastes! Very Happy

Actually, perhaps Petty enticed you here, with low Scotshobsexual cunning? Shocked

by **Orwell** Wed Feb 08, 2012 7:33 am

Pettytyrant101 wrote:Excellent I'm going mad again- buckie levels must have dipped. (weird thing is I dont type out quotes I'm lazy so I just highlight, copy and paste- so where the hell did I get it from?! )

When you do find out where, Petty, could you please ask after Elrond's rendition of the Ring poem too? Very Happy

by Pettytyrant101 Wed Feb 08, 2012 7:35 am

Haha- found it- it was Halfwise I was quoting- at least I'm not going mad(der) just what getting up at 6 in the morning without enough buckie to fully cushion the blow can do to you! Let that be a lesson to always keep some by the bedside, under the pillow and in the cistern in the toilet-just in case.

by **Orwell** Wed Feb 08, 2012 7:38 am

Pettytyrant101 wrote:Haha- found it- it was Halfwise I was quoting- at least I'm not going mad(der) just what getting up at 6 in the morning without enough buckie to fully cushion the blow can do to you! Let that be a lesson to always keep some by the bedside, under the pillow and in the cistern in the toilet-just in case.

So long as you don't drink the cistern water by mistake... pale

by Pettytyrant101 Wed Feb 08, 2012 7:39 am

My cistern water is buckie, I have the only toilet cistern in the world that comes with a straw. Very Happy

by **Orwell** Wed Feb 08, 2012 7:54 am

Pettytyrant101 wrote:My cistern water is buckie, I have the only toilet cistern in the world that comes with a straw.

Aren't you a bit reluctant to flush then? confused