Plagiarism?

Can there be plagiarism (if you keep a liberal mind about it) of LOTR? It was the first BIG fantasy story of the century, and I've noticed that there are several other fantasy stories that have extremely similar aspects of the books. For example, elves aren't really "Santa's Elves" anymore when described or thought of in othe fantasy novels, like in Eragon and others. What I'm saying is, is there such a thing as plagiarism with a trilogy this widely popular and timeless??

Mmm an interesting question Tin. Tolkien I would argue did not reinvent elves or much else, so much as reinstate them to a former glory before more modern times debased them from the high and noble to the dimutive and frivolous (a paricluarly Victorian sin they more than any popularised the notion of fairies and elves as little people living at the bottom of the garden).

I think plagiarism is more to do with direct copying of other people's work. There about seven story ideas in existence (supposedly) and if writing a fantasy story of itself is plagiarism, then Tolkien was guilty too. Eru Bless Him!

No, I don't think anyone directly plagiarizes Tolkien, but I feel like his ideas have been reused countless times in all fantasy novels, unless those ideas are universal to fantasy, but something tells me that they're not...

I'm sure that most popular authors have been plagiarized, but I also think that publishing companies are smart enough not to publish anything that fits the legal definition of plagiarism since otherwise they'd have their asses sued off in court. There are plenty of authors that copy major elements and themes of Tolkien's work wholesale into their own: Christopher Paolini's Eragon is a prime example. Paolini's debut novel was essentially the story of Star Wars (itself a thinly veiled derivation of The Hidden Fortress) in a world that was The Lord of the Rings plus Dragonriders of Pern. The sequels (the fourth and final book in the cycle comes out this November) have become somewhat more original, though whether this is a good or a bad thing is unclear. I don't think any of Paolini's books have fit the legal definition of plagiarism, though plenty of people frown upon his work as a poor copy of better writers. For my part, I was a huge fan of Paolini starting when I was eight or nine, and while my enthusiasm for his work has cooled considerably since and I can't say he's a terribly good author, I do have a measure of nostalgia for his books and find the first one to be fun in an airport novel way.

Sword of Shannara by Terry Brooks was the most blatant rip off of LotR I ever read.

Yeah, I heard that was really bad. Didn't the subsequent Shannara books get better and more original, though?

I heard they did too but I found Sword such a laughably poor rip of FotR in particular that I never read the rest.

Eldorion wrote:Yeah, I heard that was really bad. Didn't the subsequent Shannara books get better and more original, though?

I agree they did get better, but the only reason i read them in the first place was because they were similar.
The first book the one Petty mentioned i think had the battle of the 5 army's in it down to a tee.
Harry Potters the same, its very similar to David Eddings The Belgariad.

See, I brought this up because I'm finding that the story I'm writing is drifting toward the Silmarillion a bit But all creation stories are similar, right? And my biggest worry is the elven language. How does one go about making one of those without stepping on Tolkien's toes???? ((Hehe! I rhymed )))

Tinuviel wrote:And my biggest worry is the elven language. How does one go about making one of those without stepping on Tolkien's toes???? ((Hehe! I rhymed )))

This might help.

Must be hard to come up with original ideas these days, films books, music. Everything has been done to death.

Pettytyrant101 wrote:Sword of Shannara by Terry Brooks was the most blatant rip off of LotR I ever read.

I liked it at the time, but read it only once and that was it. Haven't read his others. Inspiration not plagiarism in my opinion.

chris63 wrote:Must be hard to come up with original ideas these days, films books, music.

And I, for one, don't plan to do it! Original ideas are hard to find (and probably don't exist), "inspiration" based on the works of others, on the other hand, is much easier; and a compliment to those who went before us; and should not one always respect those who came before!

Tinuviel, write your story and worry about the lawsuit when you're rich and famous. I mean, if you end up having to pay the original author three quarters of the eight zillion you make, well you'll just have to bear it!

Hopefully it will be that good Orwell!


And THANK YOU SO MUCH BAINGIL!!!!!!!! That helps me tons!!!!!

You're welcome. Rather complicated but it can be helpful if you want to create a working language. Or play around.

Tinuviel wrote:Hopefully it will be that good Orwell!

If it is, I'll not be too embarrassed to make a marriage proposal.

Baingil wrote:You're welcome. Rather complicated but it can be helpful if you want to create a working language. Or play around.

Providing you girls "mind your language" while you're doing it!

.... and then Baingil disappeared... forever...

I always loved her avatar...

We all did, Halfy -- we all did...

{{{{{She is under the shoe mountain behind the Admin Tower, so the NotP say.}}}}}

She's still around, just not on here. Still has the same avatar, too.

{{Under the shoes}}}}

Ha! I'm glad this thread was spammily resurrected! I've been wanting to use that site recently!