The Rings of Power Post-watch Discussion (Spoilers)

{{ Yeah caught this earlier, 4chan leak so dubious source, normally I'd say stuff like Sauron tricking Galadriel by becoming Celeborn,or Sauron having a son, or Bombadil being Melkor! sounds too stupid to believe, but then we all saw series 1 so it's certainly possible. }}

Ugh, bloody hell, I stepped into the The One Ring.Net Discord server the other week, and there's this absolutely loathsome thing going on where the "fandom" basically trick each other into thinking that ANY of the trash the writers thought up is acceptable. For example, a discussion about how it works, exactly, that elves need to bask in Mithril-light or whatever to avoid dying.
A weird little culture of tiptoeing around whether elves can be various shades of toast but brazenly declaring that "I just couldn't accept the Blue Wizards cast as white men!"

Actually it sounds like a nice party game where somebody names something that purportedly happened in RoP and people vote on whether it actually was in the show or not. Only works for people who haven't watched it, but it's basically anything goes, with nothing too stupid to be ruled out.

Ayup All,

It’s been a while. Glad to see everyone here.

It’s been very interesting watching the ROP Of all things, I’m reminded of this being the ‘Soap Opera’ version of LOTR. The age it’s set in really doesn’t matter at all. And considering the alleged plans for Bombadil and Barrow wights, that’s the only thing it can be. So one to switch your brain off to. The dialogue really is a shame though, given the physical production values which are stunning. I hate to say it, but I’m looking forward to seeing what we get next. Namarië

Good having you back, Feanor!

If you forget it's supposed to be Tolkien you've won half the battle. Then you have to stop thinking that characters and motivations have to make any sense at all. Finally pour yourself a good stiff drink and FINALLY you're ready to watch the damn thing.

{{Welcome back Feanor! Though you appear to have gone mad if you can stomach RoP.
And Halfy I contest your last point, I drank gallons of buckie to get through that series and it was still the biggest dump of shit anyones ever taken on Tolkien and his work Ive ever seen.You cant numb that sort of awfulness away sadly.}}

That's why you have to start by forgetting it's supposed to be Tolkien.

{{ This is desperate and bad. May as well chuck a car chase into it at this point, it's from a completely different age of the Earth too!
Barrow Wights at this time makes zero sense -Numenor hasn't even fallen yet, let alone the establishing of the Northern Kingdom, or the centuries needed to pass from then to the use of the Barrows, then more centuries till the Kingdom falls, and its not until the Barrows are stirred up in the 3rd age with evil spirits they become places of horror with Wights possessing the bodies of the dead.

But hey why bother with all that careful fake history work Tolkien put so much care and effort into, when they can just take all the stuff Tolkien wrote, put it all into a big hat and shake and randomly pull ideas out and just shove them in anyway.
I look forward to when Gandalf, Bombadil and the Wights team up with Smith of Wooten Major as they go on a quest to rescue Beowulf from becoming trapped in the Letters of Father Christmas! }}

Isn't this breach of contract with the Tolkien estate? I thought they were supposed to be sticking with the second age.

 oh Petty, how you do make me laugh. They cant include Smith of Wooton or Leaf by Niggle yet until theyve had Ben Hur rush through on an epic chariot race ( pulled by Roman rabbits of course and happily left behind for Radagast to retrain ) and even then they cant do much until Galadriel learns to levitate and fly at subsonic speed and save the Shire single handed whilst rescuing Celeborn from the evil clutches of Shelob as hes walking his beloved dog Rover ! Oh you are silly !

{{{ }}

{{ Well here is the trailer for season 2 of the Desecration of Tolkien'. sorry, Rings of Power, watch at your own peril! Took me three goes to just make it to the end of the trailer it was so annoying and crabbit inducing }}

utter, utter SHAAAAAAAAT !!!!! oh good grief, please, let it end !!!! This is the wrong kind of future. People will believe this shit. How can Amazon ( its Amazon doing this ? ) get it so wrong ? I hate what Ive seen in the way of trailers with a passion so strong Im floundering.

Yuk.

Although the guy they picked for Cirdan basically has my hair and beard style.

And I know this next comment my seem like nitpicking to some -- although given my thoughts with respect to most of the show [see the first sentence of this post -- and I say "most" 'cause some visuals are great, if wasted here, in my opinion], I might as well add it. . .

. . . to my mind the Three look kinda clumsily made. Like rings for kids; the kind that might be a prize in a gumball machine. . .

. . . or something.

I dunno. I'm thinking of binge-not-watching series two.

More nap time is good.

I can't bring myself to watch it.

{{ I believe the first 3 episodes of series 2 are available. Anyone had the need for self-torture and watched them? I put myself through the misery of watching the entire first series to review the episodes on here, but I'm not sure I can do it again! }}

I don't have the fortitude.

If I want to live any kind of sane life I cannot watch this Rings of Power shitfest. Ive watched trailers and thats more than I can stomach without having nightmares. It looks to me like Peejers "Hobbit" but racked up a notch. Middle Earth for the conservatives, Boris Johnson, ( Alexander Boris de Pfeffel Johnson ) and jolly good chums. I tried to look into this series, because sure as shit, I am not going to watch it. I have read that " material from the appendices of the novel The Lord of the Rings, " is being used and that " Per the requirements of Amazon's deal with the estate, the series is not a continuation of Peter Jackson's The Lord of the Rings and The Hobbit film trilogies. Despite this, the producers intended to evoke the films using similar production design, younger versions of film characters, and a main theme by Howard Shore who composed the music for both film trilogies. Bear McCreary composed the series' original score.". I am not, nor never will be, tempted to sit and let hours of my life be wasted. I can see no enjoyment for me coming from this series, You simply cannot make film after film or series after series on certain books that are out there in the world. Tolkien for me is sacrosanct. Its a book you do not touch, its to be read, It seeps into your soul, you embrace it, it becomes personal. You and that world become one. Something was very definitely lost in making these films, and series. These producers are clawing at frozen ice, slipping away and cant get a foot hold

I still haven't watched the first series, there's a part of me that wants to if only to see a non-PJ interpretation of Middle-earth, it's essentially fan fiction by the writers so a different situation to adapting LOTR or The Hobbit I think I'll find any additions/alterations somewhat less annoying as the source material is so sparse.

I've seen some of the teasers and read a few of the leaks/rumours for Season 2 and it sounds marginally more interesting as a TV program, and as a Brit I'm glad Season 2 moved production to the UK, maybe we'll get the right shade of green grass in this series eventually


I've seen some controveries online from supposed 'Tolkien fans' over a) Some of the elves looking old and Cirdan having a beard in the show b) Orcs portrayed as repoducing and having children and c) The Elven characters acting more emotional and less ethereal than their counterparts in the LOTR films...all of these choices are things that have roots in Tolkien's writing:

-Cirdan is somewhere between 10,800 and 71,000 years old at the time of LOTR (depending on how you calculate Valarian years) and is described as looking old with a long beard in LOTR, Morgoth's Ring and The Nature Of Middle Earth go into great detail about Elvish ageing/life cycles, Elves are noted to grow beards in extreme old age, if any Elf was going to look old it would be him.

-In the appendices to LOTR Bolg is noted to be the son of Azog, the Silmarillion notes that Orcs reproduced the same ways as elves/Humans do, and although Tolkien did change his mind several times on orc reproduction/origins as a devout Catholic I think he later had issues with the idea of a whole race being inherantly evil from the start. Although Saruman did cross-breed Men/Goblins in the books to create the Uruk Hai but I don't think it was in underground mud pits like the films.

- As i said above I've not actually watched the series yet (not sure if I ever will) but I think the depiction of Elves in Jackson's films wasn't always faithful to the books (Legolas being the exposistion ninja rather than the curious quiet man of the books, Elrond being a dick rather than the friendly wise supportive ruler) Galadriel and Thranduil were done rather well (though in the latter case he seems more inspired by Thingol in The Silmarillion than The elvenking of the Hobbit book) but sometimes the Elves in the films came across as rather remote and ethereal robots i.m.o, yes their spirits faded over the ages and yes they were old and somewhat detatched from humanity but compare the Jolly Elrond of the books to the films, or the forceful Feanor of The Silmarillion to the boring Celeborn of the films, being powerful ancient beings dosen't mean they need to be cold and detatched.


If Rings of Power does humanise the Elves more so than the films did I'm not sure it's an issue, I don't get the impression Tolkien thought of the Elves as ethereal robots or Ninja superman like Jackson did.

It seems to me ironically some of the complaints about the series are from hardcore PJ fans rather than hardcore Tolkien fans, even if Rings of Power turns out to be five solid seasons of shite I'm glad in some respects it is a move away from the Peter Jackson intepretation, I don't want a poop covered Radagast or Azog the fork monster to have the final word on on-screen Middle-earth.

I don't necessarily agree with his thesis that the Rings of Power failed because it explains mysteries which don't need to be explained - it's mainly just execrable writing. But his introduction is quite amusing and worth watching.

malickfan wrote:I still haven't watched the first series, . . .

I find it unwatchable, so you are not alone

I've seen some controveries online from supposed 'Tolkien fans' over a) Some of the elves looking old and Cirdan having a beard in the show

Círdan certainly has a beard near the end of the Third Age. As for him looking old (again near the end of the Third Age) -- although technically the text says Círdan was old and grey, I must agree the full context has me imagining he looks old, beyond the long beard -- I've always had some questions here myself, for JRRT. I won't go into that right now. . .

. . . but as an aside, ROP-Cirdan shaves his beard at one point.

Orcs portrayed as repoducing and having children

For myself, I'm not sure why this is a matter of contention among Tolkien readers. I just posted about this elsewhere: someone asked what multiplying after the manner of the Children of Eru really meant -- and this person accepted my reasoning without debate.

Anywho, possibly some of the grumbling concerns the decision to . . . well, to be fair, I can't recall exactly what the Ork said in the scene I'm thinking about, but this is the way Forbes Magazine described it anyway: ". . . shows an orc soldier who doesn’t want to participate in the war.The sympathetic orc even says goodbye to his family, marking the first time an orc mother and baby has appeared in an adaptation of author J.R.R. Tolkien’s work."

Although Saruman did cross-breed Men/Goblins in the books to create the Uruk Hai but I don't think it was in underground mud pits like the films.

No "storks for orks" -- but book-wise, I imagine the breeding of Men and Orks to produce Half-orks rather.

Anyway.