Sherlock - BBC [4]

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Post by azriel Sat Oct 17, 2015 6:01 pm

""There is strong sense that some folks don't sit down to watch a Moffat show to enjoy it in the first place, but rather to see what they can find to be offended at by him this week.""........................

I know I wouldnt watch a show just to see if there was anything in it to annoy me ! You either like the show or you dont. If its new to you, you give it a chance, much like I did the other night when a new Detective drama popped up. ( River, staring Skellan Skarsgard ) But to sit thru perhaps nearly an hour just to score points is a boring way to spend an evening in my view ?

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Post by Pettytyrant101 Sat Oct 17, 2015 6:02 pm

I know I wouldnt watch a show just to see if there was anything in it to annoy me ! - Azriel

Mary Whitehouse did Very Happy

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Post by azriel Sat Oct 17, 2015 6:03 pm

Mary Whitehouse was sex starved..........she had to moan about something !

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Post by Pettytyrant101 Sat Oct 17, 2015 6:05 pm

more like everything Mad

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Post by Pettytyrant101 Sat Oct 17, 2015 6:06 pm

And it didn't matter what age bracket stuff I watched was, she was always trying to ban it!
Tiswas- tried to ban it. Robin of Sherwood- tried to ban it. Caligula- tried to ban it. Mad

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Post by azriel Sat Oct 17, 2015 6:23 pm

Pure jealousy on her part !
Tiswas because it was fun
Robin Hood because the hero is handsome
And Caligula,well, Romans were famous for all sorts of lurid reasons

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Post by Mrs Figg Sat Oct 17, 2015 6:42 pm

Pettytyrant101 wrote:Moffat has ''done more than any other to promote the role of females within the shows mythology'' which is frankly absurd.- Figg

Ok - in terms of mythology- first Moffat introduced as cannon the notion that a time-lord can at regeneration change sex- he did this by adding in the character of the Corsair, and old friend of the Doctors whom the Doctor had known as both male and female.
The next step taken by Moffat was during the regeneration of the 8th Doctor, in which the Sisterhood explicitly offer the Doctor the choice between male and female. Displaying that it was possible and known about wider than Time Lord society and was something the Doctor could do.
Thirdly he then took the second longest established character in the show besides the Doctor, the Master and after 50 years and many showrunners, none of whom did it before him, he made the Master regenerate into a woman.
Thus introducing the audience, who he has carefully prepared, to accept the moment and by exposing the audience to Missy (who despite what you say the AI's indicate was very popular, all the episodes she is in scored well) they get used to accepting a female as the same character as a former male.
We all know the next step, whether Moffat himself takes it or not, will be for there to be a female Doctor- and the reason it will happen at all is because Moffat has made it happen. Moffat. Not RTD. Not any of the classic show producers, not even Verity Lambert. Moffat has put all the necessary steps into the canon and him alone.
Even when its as blatant as this you still cant bring yourself to give Moffat any credit at all as you cannot see him beyond your view of him as sexist.

ok. Firstly Missy being a woman is down to fan pressure and compromise, he didn't want a female Doctor so he gave people the next best thing to shut them up. Secondly just listing the number of female characters isn't an argument. Thirdly, fucking around with canon isn't an argument, fourthly, it doesn't matter how many female characters you have if they are written badly.

'This is not a sweeping generalisation but based on actual facts.'

Which you seemingly cant and haven't produced any of- you have blogs, youtube rants- until you can provide me with a set of figures in some fashion comparable to the BBC AI's which demonstrate exactly the opposite result to the AI's- or produce a poll of more than 1000 people who all say its awful instead of that they are enjoying it, I will not consider what you say about the show anything at all vaguely resembling facts. Its just opinion- and I haven't even been arguing my opinion in this, I've been arguing there is no evidence to show everyone hates the show, and that what evidence there is says the opposite. And I am arguing this point because that's what the evidence says!

and I will not consider your false facts that come from rabid fan sites. and I have never said everyone hates the show.

'The 'bile' comes from intense and justified dislike of being misrepresented by a man who seems smug and dismissive.'

So what is it you have the issue with- the person or the writing? Because that sounds like a personal attack on the man himself, a man I hasten to add that as far as I am aware you have never actually met.

absolutely not, that's your twisting the meaning. again. you have no qualms about personal attacks on the people complaining by using the word 'bile' you are judging and dismissing peoples views. You would love it if I attacked him personally, but I am afraid I didn't attack him personally, I went of his actual words. he did it to himself and does himself no favours calling women 'needy'. and other such rubbish. if he acts like a jerk he is going to get a backlash.

'I think that's a pretty lame way of trying to silence peoples concerns.'

No its genuine bafflement why someone would argue so strongly that the show is doing terribly and everyone hates it when the evidence of the AI's and large polls indicate the opposite.

there is no evidence. you cling to this poll like its the Ten Commandments set in stone. its just a small poll, its meaningless.

If there was good evidence, or any in fact, to show that the majority of those watching hated it then I could understand you making the point that it was unpopular- but when the evidence not just of the polls and the AI, but the ever growing number of countries its exported to is that it is in fact doing better than it ever has in terms of reach as well.

I have never said everyone hates it, why continue this argument. its pointless.

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Post by Pettytyrant101 Sat Oct 17, 2015 7:02 pm

Firstly Missy being a woman is down to fan pressure and compromise- Figg

So that's why he set the concept up years ago, slowly built up to the point where we have a sex changing Time Lord as the accepted canon norm?
And the Head Writer by definition cant fuck up canon- whatever he comes up is canon, just like when they needed a big ending to 2nd Doctors huge regen story War Games the Head Writer invented Time Lords. Making up canon, writing things into canon is what the writers do every episode.
And Moffat has quite clearly and demonstrably for years been setting up this premise as canon.

'absolutely not, that's your twisting the meaning. again.'

You called him smug and dismissive- those are personal attacks, in a debate about whether people enjoy the tv show or not! I twisted nothing.

'you cling to this poll like its the Ten Commandments set in stone. its just a small poll, its meaningless.'

If it were meaningless the BBC would not expend the time and money conducting it on all their tv output. Its not like its a Who thing, its just that Who is on the BBC so it gets AI rated same as everything else. And the AI's for it are good and it stands well alongside comparable drama on tv.
Its a good thing- I don't get why you have a problem with it being a good thing.
Unless you are arguing the AI's for all the BBC output are wrong somehow- or is it just the Who one that is mysteriously wrong?
Its also the only official direct rating of how much people enjoy watching the program- which is what we are discussing.

'I have never said everyone hates it'

Ok I admit you didn't say that, but then nor did I, I said you said , 'a majority hated it' - and you actually said most- ''that's why most people hated season 8.''
But most and majority in this context are the same thing!
And there is not actual evidence that a majority hate it beyond the anecdotal of those who don't like it.
Whereas there is evidence- the AI's, the weekly polls on Gallifrey Base, the critical reception, the increase in the spread of the show globally, the show going into cinemas on several occasions and doing exceptional business, the Globally touring Doctor Who Experience Symphonic, the sales of Who related merchandise, being the largest global selling BBC show through BBC Worldwide ect- that a majority watch because they enjoy watching it- why is that a surprise to you?


'why continue this argument. its pointless.'

I've been saying that from the start!! Mad

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Post by Nagual Sat Oct 17, 2015 9:51 pm

You two still bickering like an two kids in the play ground? Well daddies home, so stop it. Opinions are all valid and it looks as you two are holding on to your own opinions like a dying man and his straw. Stop trying to change the others opinion or justify your own, it's childlike.

I don't post often in this forum, and I know you have no reason to either think about my comment (or opinion if you like) however I suggest you be at peace with the fact someone else disagrees with you. Facts and figures are just as meaningless as opinions. Neither of you actually care if the other likes or dislikes something, all it seems is that you care about making yourself right in the eyes of others (the forum users) and that is your ego taking charge.

Now, go to your rooms and don't come out till you are ready to at least act like adults. Assuming you are in fact adults, as the anonymity of the internet is wonderful at disguising us, isn't it?
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Post by Pettytyrant101 Sat Oct 17, 2015 10:05 pm

Oi! If your getting in the ring your supposed to join the fight- not stop it!! Mad {{{{You trying to wreck the entire reputation of the Scotshobbit? Mad }}}}

And disagreeing with Figg is one of the main things I do! Because she keep saying Figgy type things. And disagreeing with me is one of the main things Figgs does! Because I keep saying Petty type things.
Its how it works. Mad

'all it seems is that you care about making yourself right in the eyes of others (the forum users) and that is your ego taking charge.'

Now you know my alcohol fuelled ego may know no bounds, or not ones its willing to accept at any rate, and my capacity of crabbit complaining so endless you've got up and walked out the room rather than put up with any more of it, and may be somewhat immodest. I am not seeking approval, but I do concede to both playing to win and to taking a wider audience who may or not be reading into account in presenting stuff. I do that for all debates I have on a forum (granted thats mainly this one, but that's cause this is the good one and has Figgs in it) as I view them as public debates. And so consider the audience in much the same way were I having a public debate in front of folks.

'go to your rooms and don't come out till you are ready to at least act like adults.'

Two points here- 1 the barrel doesn't have rooms, its a barrel. Mad 2. I have no idea how to do the second part. You should know that by now. Mad

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Post by Mrs Figg Sat Oct 17, 2015 11:30 pm

Nagual wrote:You two still bickering like an two kids in the play ground? Well daddies home, so stop it. Opinions are all valid and it looks as you two are holding on to your own opinions like a dying man and his straw. Stop trying to change the others opinion or justify your own, it's childlike.

I don't post often in this forum, and I know you have no reason to either think about my comment (or opinion if you like) however I suggest you be at peace with the fact someone else disagrees with you. Facts and figures are just as meaningless as opinions. Neither of you actually care if the other likes or dislikes something, all it seems is that you care about making yourself right in the eyes of others (the forum users) and that is your ego taking charge.

Now, go to your rooms and don't come out till you are ready to at least act like adults. Assuming you are in fact adults, as the anonymity of the internet is wonderful at disguising us, isn't it?

Evil or Very Mad spoilsport. cant a girl be a pig-headed stubborn egomaniac with the mental age of 10 in this joint? Suspect
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Post by Pettytyrant101 Sun Oct 18, 2015 1:21 am

Handbag him Figg that'll see the cheeky peace lover off! Twisted Evil

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Post by Mrs Figg Sun Oct 18, 2015 1:29 pm

Handbag
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Post by Bluebottle Sun Oct 18, 2015 1:54 pm

Nagual wrote:Now, go to your rooms and don't come out till you are ready to at least act like adults. Assuming you are in fact adults, as the anonymity of the internet is wonderful at disguising us, isn't it?

I think you might have had better luck if you had said go to your room.. Sofa

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Post by Pettytyrant101 Mon Oct 26, 2015 5:04 pm

Extended trailer-


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Post by Mrs Figg Mon Oct 26, 2015 5:22 pm

half of me wishes it was always set in the 19th c. looks good.
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Post by Pettytyrant101 Mon Oct 26, 2015 5:25 pm

Moffat said after they had done it they had so much fun they were half thinking of alternating in the future between past and present!








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Post by Bluebottle Mon Oct 26, 2015 5:27 pm

Hm.. don't they always say if you have fun making a movie that's a bad sign for it's quality?

I find myself a bit worried for this one. On one hand it might be great, on the other it might very easily not be. Then again, I'm not going to fault anyone for experimenting and taking chances. And either way it will be really interesting to see how it turns out.

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Post by Pettytyrant101 Mon Oct 26, 2015 5:31 pm

I probably worded that poorly- in the context I read it it was more implied fun with the period setting, fun of doing it in 'original' setting with original dialogue and re-imagining their versions of the characters in that time period- rather than japery type fun on set.

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Post by Amarië Mon Oct 26, 2015 5:32 pm

I'm mostly looking forward to the NRK parody!

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Post by azriel Mon Oct 26, 2015 5:33 pm

Well, its got equal chances, its good or its not, 50/50. I think with Cucumberwumberbatch playing Sherlock it will be just as enjoyable whether its in this century or that century Smile

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Post by azriel Mon Oct 26, 2015 5:35 pm

Oh gawd Amarië ! I love those parody's ! Laughing

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Post by Bluebottle Mon Oct 26, 2015 5:39 pm

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Post by Forest Shepherd Mon Oct 26, 2015 5:49 pm

Mrs Figg wrote:half of me wishes it was always set in the 19th c. looks good.
Not me! I've wholeheartedly enjoyed seeing it in a modern setting.

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Sherlock - BBC [4] - Page 21 Empty Re: Sherlock - BBC [4]

Post by azriel Mon Oct 26, 2015 5:58 pm

Very Happy Blue

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If you always do what you have always done, you will always get what you always got

Sherlock - BBC [4] - Page 21 Th_cat%20blink_zpsesmrb2cl

Sherlock - BBC [4] - Page 21 Jean-b11
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