Thoughts on the new character, Itaril

Durin

Also, one more thing. I was a little too much on safety patrol duty earlier to actually read the content of your post .

You might want to look at what [b:10nza4c3]Odo Banks[/b:10nza4c3] said on the front page, of how Biblo sings of Itaril. While this character my not be directly involved in the actual plotline of the Hobbit, there is certainly room to fit this character into the story without contradicting Tolkien's lore. And really, a movie would be much less exciting if it was just the book taken word for word and put into screen, we can already simulate in our minds.

Gandalfs Beard

Yes, and if you read my post, you will see that Durin and I are on the same page regarding this question. Again, Itaril is VERY unlikely to have a role directly linked to the main adventure. Her role (if it exists at all) will be entirely within the Elven parts of the story.

BUT--don't forget to read the "Lost Story" of Itaril's true role in Middle Earth, finally revealed in ancient scrolls hidden in a buried barrel of Pipeweed : The Adventures of Bilbo and Itaril

Odo Banks

Cheek at warp speed!

Gandalfs Beard

Just pointing out that Itaril had a far greater role in The History of the Ring long suppressed by ancient scribes. No doubt Tolkien--discoverer and translator of the Red Book--would have eventually read between the lines and found the clues leading him to this latest archaeological find. A regular British Indiana Jones that old codger was.

Odo Banks

I do apologise. I thought you were looking for some Free Advertizing! As you know, I'd never do that!

Eldorion

While we're talking about long-lost fragments, let's not forget what Tolkien had to say about expanding the story in his newly-discovered text The Mire of GaladriFAIL (near the bottom of the page).

Eldorion

Hopefully she won't present a contradiction (if she even appears), but the entire expanded Elven/White Council storyline is an unnecessary expansion of the scope of the story that dilutes the true tale: that of Bilbo and the Quest of Erebor.

'And really, a movie would be much less exciting if it was just the book taken word for word and put into screen, we can already simulate that in our minds'

(that I have ever seen) is asking for a literal translation of the book, but that doesn't mean all of us are comfortable with major changes/expansions. Changes to the story are not an all or nothing affair, at any rate.

Durin

Well you never know, Del Toro and Jackson may have big plans for this movie, after all, it is two parts, and perhaps they shall make other movies that tie into this in the future? Del Toro and Jackson are smart guys, and since none of this is really mentioned in LOTR, and they consider The Hobbit to be an entry into it, they be doing something pretty big with the Elven/White Council storyline, even though it may be unnecessary, they may just want to introduce more Tolkien lore! Nothing wrong with that!

... That is to say, they get the main plot-line down first.

'No one (that I have ever seen) is asking for a literal translation of the book, but that doesn't mean all of us are comfortable with major changes/expansions. Changes to the story are not an all or nothing affair, at any rate.'


I 'unno, , a lot of my friends are hoping for a very true to the bookand, in my opinion, somewhat bland movie. I do not fear expansions as I do changes.

Eldorion

I think it is quite clear that they have big plans: they are effectively making "LOTR: The Prequel" and are giving us a much broader look at the politics and history of Middle-earth during the time of The Hobbit. This could be cool on some level. However, it is not what The Hobbit is about. The Hobbit is not a prequel to LOTR in the way that Jackson and del Toro seem to be treating it.

'they may just want to introduce more Tolkien lore! Nothing wrong with that! '

Fair enough, except that the White Council is mentioned so briefly by Tolkien that it's the screenwriters are going to do more fanfiction-esque 'fleshing out' than actual adapting. We'll see a lot of Jackson lore, sure, but the White Council will be necessity be relatively light on Tolkien lore.

'I 'unno,Eldorion, a lot of my friends are hoping for a very true to the bookand, in my opinion, somewhat bland movie. I do not fear expansions as I do changes.'

I'm not sure why a well-made movie of The Hobbit that conserved its dramatic power to the simple yet effective storyline of Bilbo would be bland. The story of Bilbo has stood the test of time for over 70 years, and even if the filmmakers refrained from adding extraneous storylines its not like there would be no room for creativity. Changes and decisions about adaptation would still have to be made, the visual process of bringing Middle-earth to the screen would still be necessary, and the filmmakers would - undoubtedly - put their own touch on everything.

Odo Banks

Bravo, Eldo! Adaptations often fail because film makers think they can do better - and can't! If what makes The Hobbit fun, thrilling, scary and moving is properly realized in The Movies - then the Movies won't only be 'true' but 'brilliant.'

'I 'unno, Eldorion, a lot of my friends are hoping for a very true to the book and, in my opinion, somewhat bland movie. I do not fear expansions as I do changes.'

No one is suggesting we have someone in a chair read the book aloud, Mr Durin!

Frankly, I don't see how a true adaptation could be 'bland', unless the filmmaker isn't up to it!

NB See WHITE COUNCIL WILL WRECK HOBBIT, Mr Durin, if you want to see Wisdom and Truth,(that's if you can handle the Truth? )

(And to think you and I started off so well!)

Gandalfs Beard

Hold your ground Durin! Don't let the Purists intimidate you with their bluster .

Eldorion

It's not bluster, it's just common sense. Popular and successful stories in book form can, in the right hands, be popular and successful in movie form as well without any major changes or additions to the story. That is, in a nutshell, the concept of purism. It doesn't mean that it needs to be a "literal" reproduction of the book nor that unfaithful adaptations must be hated and destroyed. They can actually be damn good movies. I'd just rather see a good movie that is also a faithful adaptation.

Odo Banks

Oh Thank Goodness there's a Lore Master here! Yes, Eldo, you're quite right - as you usually are in matters of Tolkien Purism (and Purity generally, I hope )

(Eldo, I don't want to spread rumors, but just between you, me and the gate post, I've heard old GB has become a Tolkien Purileist Yes, I could hardly believe it myself when I started this rumor. A cautionary tale without a doubt! It's a slippery slope, my friend, when you step through Liberalism's door, walk down the passageway to Heathenism and end up at Purilieism's sink [full of dirty dishes, no doubt]. Terrible... absolutely terrible... And I always found GB such a nice chap. It just goes to show you that you only think you know someone.... This is just between you and me though. Mustn't spread rumors

Eldorion

Aww, thanks Odo.

'(Eldo, I don't want to spread rumors, but just between you, me and the gate post, I've heard old GB has become a Tolkien Purileist '

Is that like, someone who wants Tolkien's stories to be puerile? Maybe I'm mistaken, but GB has always seemed rather anti-puerileist with that meaning.

Odo Banks

That's what GB hopes you'll think... (And thanks for the spell-check. I thought it looked kinda funny! Puerileist it is! :ugeek: )

Eldorion

He had me fooled then. He always struck me as a Tolkien-maturist (or at least a Hobbit-maturist). Was it all just clever reverse psychology?

Odo Banks

Immaturist, lad! Immaturist! Though this can also be translated as Immapurist. Same thing at the end of the day. Liberal, Heathen, Pueralist... whatever! Actually, when you think about it, GB has a fine Collection of Evil Monikers. Not unlike Saruman with his Coat of Many Colors, now I think about it. Creep out, or what! )

Legolas Greenleaf

Itaril yup...I think I love her mm... although I don't know her but I think she would be a lovely character!!!
and she is also a warrior!! such a nice guy!and I'm sure that she is Legolas' LOVER!!
I mean...Look!how many young elven Lord is in the Mirkwood palace?just Leggy...no one else...!but Leggy wasn't in the Hobbit book but...

Gandalfs Beard

Oh my Goddess, they've Rumbled me, found me out!!! :mrgreen:

PS: I'm a Puerile/Maturist--stew on that one for a while

Eldorion

A puerile Maturist I could understand, but this... :?

Gandalfs Beard

I like "kid's" stories with adult themes and material (i.e. fairy tales with all the naughty bits put back in). Which pretty much applies to most modern sci fi/fantasy tales these days.

Eldorion

Sans "naughty", that sounds like The Hobbit to me. 8-)

Odo Banks

I wish you two would just grow up!

Eldorion

Hey, I've got a valid excuse. 8-)

Odo Banks

I'm an Old Testament man, Eldo, and I don't plan to spare the rod in relation to you. I feel it's my duty to whack you repeatedly! Now where's that rod? Yes, a few good whacks will surely learn you and make a man of you! (It was an important part of my upbringing, actually, that's why I'm so well rounded and Wise ). I'm especially looking forward to give GB a fair whacking too - he's too old to grow up or be learned, I know, but whacking him with a nice whacking-rod will be very satisfying anyhow... yes, very satisfying...