Shadows in the West Discussion Thread

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Post by Lorient Avandi Fri Aug 12, 2011 7:25 am

Discuss the characters, recent turns of events, and other things to do with Shadows in The West.
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Post by Orwell Fri Aug 12, 2011 10:03 pm

I thought my Uruk character can have a fleeting contact with the Fellowship in Moria, but only in seeing or hearing them. Is that okay? I'm not clear at all how these role play things work, but I plan for my Uruk to eventually be a part of the war on Lothlorien - but only if my enthusiasm lasts, of course! Very Happy

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Post by Lorient Avandi Fri Aug 12, 2011 10:44 pm

You can do whatever you want. i changed my mind about drastically changing the story, because i want it to be fun for the people who are playing evil characters too. knowing that you are eventually going to die or that your side will definitely lose isnt really fun. if everyone was a good character then i would keep that rule, but having evil characters would make it no fun for them. in other words you can see them, fight them, possibly even kill them.
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Post by Orwell Fri Aug 12, 2011 10:50 pm

Lorient Avandi wrote:You can do whatever you want. i changed my mind about drastically changing the story, because i want it to be fun for the people who are playing evil characters too. knowing that you are eventually going to die or that your side will definitely lose isnt really fun. if everyone was a good character then i would keep that rule, but having evil characters would make it no fun for them. in other words you can see them, fight them, possibly even kill them.

I kind of thought your characters could not change the story as such, just create "side stories" that don't affect the main story thread laid by Tolks? The fun (I thought) would be in having our made up characters having some contact with events or persons in Tolkien without affecting his Great Conceit at all.


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Post by Mirabella Fri Aug 12, 2011 10:56 pm

I was thinking Rosa could catch a glimpse of a Black Rider, or see strange folk visiting Bill Ferney, that kind of thing, and gossip with Nob or Bob at The Prancing Pony, or something like that. Is that the kind of thing we can do?
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Post by Orwell Fri Aug 12, 2011 11:14 pm

Umm... Biffo sent me a PM. Dont know why he didn't go via Odo, come to think, but anyhow, he asked if he might play as well. His English isn't good, but his Kimberlayan is pretty much perfect. He has an idea for a dwarf character in Erebor. He promises to write a proper story - except - well, his Kimberlayan might not be acceptable for this project. What think you guys? You see, it's just he does so love a challenge. Don't we all?

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Post by Lorient Avandi Fri Aug 12, 2011 11:23 pm

Orwell wrote:
I kind of thought your characters could not change the story as such, just create "side stories" that don't affect the main story thread laid by Tolks? The fun (I thought) would be in having our made up characters having some contact with events or persons in Tolkien without affecting his Great Conceit at all.

I know what you mean but, I think that it would be more fun for everybody if it was possible to change the story. I tried to imagine it the way you are, but I just can't in a way that would be fun for everyone. If my character actually existed, I would not be able to leave the Citadel and would just be stuck there the entire time. Even if I changed my character and made him a regular soldier but kept everything else the same, I would never be able to leave Osgiliath, and would almost cerainly die there. Your character could never be in the Mines of Moria, especially when the Fellowship is there, because no Uruks were in Moria. If you did take part in Lothlorien you would definitely die, just a matter of how far into the fight. Mirabella's character could never have existed in the first place if she worked at the Prancing Pony. I'm sorry to break this to all you purists on here who wanted to take part in this, but doing so automatically means youre gonna be changing the story in some way. Also, it was already stated that there will be elements of both the books and the movies. That right there is also going to change things.


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Post by Lorient Avandi Fri Aug 12, 2011 11:24 pm

Orwell wrote:Umm... Biffo sent me a PM. Dont know why he didn't go via Odo, come to think, but anyhow, he asked if he might play as well. His English isn't good, but his Kimberlayan is pretty much perfect. He has an idea for a dwarf character in Erebor. He promises to write a proper story - except - well, his Kimberlayan might not be acceptable for this project. What think you guys? You see, it's just he does so love a challenge. Don't we all?
im ok with it, as long as everyone else is.
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Post by Lorient Avandi Fri Aug 12, 2011 11:26 pm

Mirabella wrote:I was thinking Rosa could catch a glimpse of a Black Rider, or see strange folk visiting Bill Ferney, that kind of thing, and gossip with Nob or Bob at The Prancing Pony, or something like that. Is that the kind of thing we can do?
yes that is fine, you can do that. its also ok if, since you work at the 'Pony, you interact with Merry, Pippin, Sam, and Frodo.
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Post by Pettytyrant101 Fri Aug 12, 2011 11:32 pm

"He has an idea for a dwarf character in Erebor."- I'd pay to see Biffo play that (obviously I can't as I have left my sporran, elsewhere, but I would!)

"there will be elements of both the books and the movies. that right there is also going to change things."- Lorient

Um, what happens when the two completely contradict each other? For example at the Prancing Pony, is Butterbur a likeable, stoic, dependable (if forgetful) figure who runs a clean welcoming inn as in the book, or is he a complete cock who runs a dirty den of thieves about as welcoming as sitting on a rattlesnake (particularly troublesome for those of us in kilts) as he is in PJ's film?

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Post by Orwell Fri Aug 12, 2011 11:37 pm

Lorient Avandi wrote:Your character could never be in the mines of moria, especially when the fellowship is there, because no uruks were in moria. and if you did take part in lothlorien you would definitely die.

I pray to differ. Though this is book stuff, not movie stuff. Even in the movies, maybe the Uruks were standing at the back, just out of shot. Very Happy

Lorient Avandi wrote: Mirabella's character could never have existed in the first place if she worked at the Prancing Pony.

Why not?

Lorient Avandi wrote:im sorry to break this to all you purists on here who wanted to take part in this but doing so automatically means youre gonna be changing the story in some way.

Not really.

Lorient Avandi wrote:And it was already stated that there will be elements of both the books and the movies. that right there is also going to change things.

I think we can use or not use Book or Movie ideas and still make it consistent. I'm talking about things that could have happened, but things Tolkien or PJ did not mention. I don't agree that we can't have our characters do stuff on the periphery of what the main characters are doing, or have things happen outside or on the periphery of events that occurred in the book - or the movies for that matter. Indeed, the fun (for me at least) would be making up stuff that people could say, "Yes, that could have happened, but the main tale is unchanged. Oh how clever of them Forumshire folk. We always knew they were clever, but only now are willing to give them credit for it."

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Post by Orwell Fri Aug 12, 2011 11:44 pm

Pettytyrant101 wrote: "He has an idea for a dwarf character in Erebor."- I'd pay to see Biffo play that (obviously I can't as I have left my sporran, elsewhere, but I would!)

So would I, and I haven't even got a sporran! Very Happy


Pettytyrant101 wrote:Um, what happens when the two completely contradict each other? For example at the Prancing Pony, is Butterbur a likeable, stoic, dependable (if forgetful) figure who runs a clean welcoming inn as in the book, or is he a complete cock who runs a dirty den of thieves about as welcoming as sitting on a rattlesnake (particularly troublesome for those of us in kilts) as he is in PJ's film?

I'd opt for "book" Butterbur, I could not stomach movie Butterbur, sorry Lorient.

Maybe we could rely on the book where PJ clearly contravenes Tolkien, but where he pays proper homage (and he does quite often) we can wear his changes. Anyway, if there are conflicts, there are conflicts, so be it. Tolkien himself chopped and changed his ideas over the years and even now there are seeming inconsistencies in his Legendarium.


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Post by Orwell Fri Aug 12, 2011 11:53 pm

Actually, as our characters are playing "their" part, surely we know only through them , that is, it comes from "their" point of view. If they contradict with what other characters are doing, maybe what we're seeing is "diffferent" versions - some characters might have told lies about their part in events or what really happened full stop! Don't know if this idea fits. Still not sure how this role play works. Are we writing "little" tales about what or characters are doing?

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Post by Pettytyrant101 Fri Aug 12, 2011 11:56 pm

Inconsitiences in how Tolkine wrote is one thing but this is role playing. If my character for example visits Bree and the Prancing Pony, and in my head its the book version, and thats the one my character reacts too, that will be competely dfferent from someone eles character who (Illuvator punish them) prefers PJ's version. Yet both charcaters could be there at the same time and supposedly be interacting. But the two version are so opposed as to be like diffrent places. And in one Butterbur might be inclined ot help out a poor soul and in the other kicked him while he is down and rob him, theres no consistency of characater. That wouldn't work. We need to have before we start an idea of which we use. I would obviously vote for the book and, maybe, alow PJ visuals for descriptive elemnets of armour and the like.
And on a related matter why limit it to be set during LotR's? We could be anytime, we could set it in Belraind in the First Age, or at the time of the elves arrival on the shores of Middle Earth in pursuit of Morgoth. Or we could be in the North Kingdom of Arnor before the kings fell and Angmar arose. We are after all limited here only by bounds we set upon ourselves.

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Post by Wisey Banks Fri Aug 12, 2011 11:57 pm

Why not stick to the books,
My friends,
That way it won't just "depend,"
My friends,
And all confusion would be at an end,
My friends!
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Post by Orwell Fri Aug 12, 2011 11:58 pm

Pettytyrant101 wrote:Inconsitiences in how Tolkine wrote is one thing but this is role playing. If my character for example visits Bree and the Prancing Pony, and in my head its the book version, and thats the one my character reacts too, that will be competely dfferent from someone eles character who (Illuvator punish them) prefers PJ's version. Yet both charcaters could be there at the same time and supposedly be interacting. But the two version are so opposed as to be like diffrent places. And in one Butterbur might be inclined ot help out a poor soul and in the other kicked him while he is down and rob him, theres no consistency of characater. That wouldn't work. We need to have before we start an idea of which we use. I would obviously vote for the book and, maybe, alow PJ visuals for descriptive elemnets of armour and the like.
And on a related matter why limit it to be set during LotR's? We could be anytime, we could set it in Belraind in the First Age, or at the time of the elves arrival on the shores of Middle Earth in pursuit of Morgoth. Or we could be in the North Kingdom of Arnor before the kings fell and Angmar arose. We are after all limited here only by bounds we set upon ourselves.

Aha! So you agree with Wisey. I know I do. (Though I agree to set the beginning at the time of Bombadil. Let's not debate everything). (Not sure about the "Wusey" Banks though, Oo's he, pray tell?)

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Post by Pettytyrant101 Sat Aug 13, 2011 12:01 am

"Still not sure how this role play works."- Orwell

Me neither. I am used to traditional D&D with rules (far too many in fact but a good DM soon sorts that out) and dice to decide the outcome of events (like wether the orc swingin a sword at you hit or missed- and I still don't get how that works here. If all it comes down to is me writing a short narrative in which I kick orc arse that would just feel like I was cheating to me)

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Post by Orwell Sat Aug 13, 2011 12:04 am

Pettytyrant101 wrote:"Still not sure how this role play works."- Orwell

Me neither. I am used to traditional D&D with rules (far too many in fact but a good DM soon sorts that out) and dice to decide the outcome of events (like wether the orc swingin a sword at you hit or missed- and I still don't get how that works here. If all it comes down to is me writing a short narrative in which I kick orc arse that would just feel like I was cheating to me)

Mmm... the "little stories" idea works for me -- throwing dice...eegad... not my cup of tea. I really don't get this, do I.

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Post by Pettytyrant101 Sat Aug 13, 2011 12:19 am

The dice are used to keep it fair and so not everything goes the players way. Your character as well as having a description also has a set of stats, such as strength and agility. These are alocated an amount up to 18. You also have hit points. If these fall to 0 youre character is unconcious, below 0 your dead- and theres no game without the risk of death.
Now say your character had discovere a secret passage, but the entrance is blocked by a large stone. You decide to move it. THe DM (who runs the game) allocates a number to how difficult the task is- lets say 14. So the player rolls the dice and using their strength stat gets a total. If the total is greater then the difficulty check the stone is moved, less you fail. So say your total is 16, you just manage to roll it aside. But its booby-trapped and you here the twangof a crossbow in the dark beyond the entrance and throw yourself out of the way. Ths time you roll and get a total from your adding your agility.
And thats, very simply how the dice part works and the sort of stuff its used for. The game itself (at least a good one) should still be dominated by role playing and the plot, the dice are just to decide the outcomes of action events and to add a bit of chance and fate into the mix.

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Post by Lorient Avandi Sat Aug 13, 2011 2:11 am

The only things i would like to be the movie version is the battle of osgiliath and the battle of pelennor fields. everything else, as far as im concerned, can remain as the book version. I think that we can make minor changes to things that dont really affect the main storyline. I.e.: Citadel guards can serve in the regular military, uruks in moria, survivors of osgililiath, etc.
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Post by Pettytyrant101 Sat Aug 13, 2011 2:40 am

"the movie version is the battle of osgiliath and the battle of pelennor fields"-Lorient

Um Osgiliath ok, I'll give you it, just so long as like the book it is long abandonded and not recently lost by Faramir! Evil or Very Mad

But the Pelannor- really? No proper tactics by either side? No fire trenches? Horses charging Oliphaunts when horses won't even go near normal elephants on the battlefield? No homesteads or fields or barns just a featurless plain?
I'm all for this role playing, I don't mind changng how the books go, or alterring anything within the world- but within Tolkiens world please. And in it the Pellannor is fields, orchards and homes, little hamlets and hedgegrows no doubt, roads and inns along them. Don't turn it into PJ's dustbowl. Mad

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Post by Lorient Avandi Sat Aug 13, 2011 2:56 am

Pettytyrant101 wrote:"the movie version is the battle of osgiliath and the battle of pelennor fields"-Lorient

Um Osgiliath ok, I'll give you it, just so long as like the book it is long abandonded and not recently lost by Faramir! Evil or Very Mad

But the Pelannor- really? No proper tactics by either side? No fire trenches? Horses charging Oliphaunts when horses won't even go near normal elephants on the battlefield? No homesteads or fields or barns just a featurless plain?
I'm all for this role playing, I don't mind changng how the books go, or alterring anything within the world- but within Tolkiens world please. And in it the Pellannor is fields, orchards and homes, little hamlets and hedgegrows no doubt, roads and inns along them. Don't turn it into PJ's dustbowl. Mad
Ok, by pelennor fields, i mostly meant the Minas Tirith part, before Rohan arrives. The rest of the battle can be how the book portrays it. Osgiliath in the book was also only recently lost, by Faramir. The book just doesnt go into as much detail and doesn't have Faramir lead a suicide charge.
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Post by Lorient Avandi Sat Aug 13, 2011 3:01 am

In the book, it is actually while retreating from Osgiliath that Faramir is wounded, instead of the suicide charge.
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Post by Baingil Sat Aug 13, 2011 3:03 am

Hmm... since we aren't doing a Hobbit RP that leaves out Mirkwood for the most part! My usual character doesn't fit... hmm.
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Post by Pettytyrant101 Sat Aug 13, 2011 3:09 am

Legolas was from Mirkwood he seemed to fit. Sure you could think up a reason why your character needs to leave the woods.

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