Amazon, Warner Bros in Talks for LOTR Series Adaptation: Variety

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Post by Pettytyrant101 Tue Sep 21, 2021 11:20 am

{{ Thing is its ditsinct from his other stuff, so every time its used when Gallifrey is mentioned or featured it can be used to cue in the viewer, often being the musical tell right before the visual reveal. Its memorable in the sense ten years after its first use it still works as a narrative marker for the show. Soon as you hear it you know youre dealing with Gallifrey/Time Lords in some fashion.
There a trick to being able to help and inform the visuals or narrative like that, and it works particuarly well on a long TV show as opposed to film where fewer and less individualistic melody hooks can be often used. Like that terrible Godzilla track you posted. }}

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Post by Eldy Thu Sep 23, 2021 4:30 am

There's an image making the rounds on Twitter and Reddit that purports to be a set photo from the series, probably of Númenor. The original post on Twitter got hit with a DMCA takedown notice from Amazon, which would seem to suggest it's authentic. It looks to be very much borrowing from the visual style of Gondor in the PJ films, which is not surprising given what we've heard about the series over the past four years, but ... idk. Neutral

https://www.reddit.com/r/LOTR_on_Prime/comments/pryj3i/set_photo_from_lotr_on_prime/

Amazon, Warner Bros in Talks for LOTR Series Adaptation: Variety - Page 7 9czBEv8h

Obviously, you can't draw any significant conclusions from a single stairway, but Minas Tirith was supposed to look old, run down, a shadow of its former glory. I would expect Armenelos, or any other major Númenórean city, to be much more vibrant. Deliberately subverting this and showing a much less glowing version of Númenor than the one recorded by in-universe historians, who sometimes border on hagiographic, could be interesting, but if the show is just aping Minas Tirith because it's familiar to audiences, I'm less about that.

That said, we don't even know if this picture is representative of the overall look of the series' sets, so I don't want to jump to any conclusions. If it's fake, or if it depicts a location in Middle-earth rather than Númenor (perhaps one of the Númenórean colonies), the above criticism obviously doesn't apply.

halfwise wrote:I'm withdrawing my nod of approval for the second composer, Bear Mccreary.  Here's his main title theme for Godzilla.  Boilerplate, not memorable.

Counterpoint: he also gave us the main theme of Black Sails.

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Post by Pettytyrant101 Thu Sep 23, 2021 5:23 am

{{ Hope its not Numenor- as you note Eldy, too worn down looking.
I really do have growing concerns about how much they are seeking to tie this stuff into PJ's films. What happens when they don't agree (which is almost every bit of history in P's)? At the end of 2nd Age do we get the book showdown on slopes of Mt Doom, where Sauron is killed first and the Ring cut from his finger in the aftermath? Or do we get Pj's version without the death of Gil-Galad and the Ring cut being the decisive killer blow? Will they seek to match up stuff with Tolkien or with what folk might know fomr PJ? }}

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Post by halfwise Thu Sep 23, 2021 12:58 pm

Never heard of Black Sails; that is a much better theme.

I'll reserve judgement on Numenor based on a single picture - the place IS thousands of years old at some point, however well tended.

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Post by Pettytyrant101 Tue Oct 12, 2021 11:46 am

{{ From an article interviewing Lenny Henry who is apprently playing a hobbit.

"I'm a Harfoot, because JRR Tolkien, who was also from Birmingham, suddenly there were black hobbits, I'm a black hobbit, it's brilliant, and what's notable about this run of the books, its a prequel to the age that we've seen in the films, its about the early days of the Shire and Tolkien's environment, so we're an indigenous population of Harfoots, we're hobbits but we're called Harfoots, we're multi-cultural, we're a tribe not a race, so we're black, asian and brown, even Maori types within it. It's a brand new set of adventures that seed some of the origins of different characters and it's going to take at least ten years to tell the story. Because it's based on the Silmarillion which was almost like a cheat sheet for what happens next in this world in the second and third ages. And the writers have a lot of fun in extrapolating it all out, and it's going to be very exciting. There's a very strong female presence in this, there's going to be female heroes in this evocation of the story, they're going to be little people as usual."

The ridiculous excuse for this according to the article is-

'Tolkien, describing Harfoots in the Lord Of The Rings, stated that "they were browner of skin" and also "they moved westward early" which may be seen as why Harfoots were absent in the films'

Unless I missed something the Hobbits of the Shire include Harfoots. But this sounds like a woke disaster in the making to me, strong female heroes, multi-cultural hobbits. Hell may as well make the characters all gay, trans and bi too why not at this point? And what does he mean by 'its about the early days of the Shire'? In the 2nd Age? Mad

I will never understand why writers who wish to promote such social issues cant create their own suitable stories and characters to do so rather than shoving and awkwardly shoehorning their agendas into works where they simply do not belong. }}

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Post by Mrs Figg Tue Oct 12, 2021 1:24 pm

Pettytyrant101 wrote:{{ From an article interviewing Lenny Henry who is apprently playing a hobbit.

"I'm a Harfoot, because JRR Tolkien, who was also from Birmingham, suddenly there were black hobbits, I'm a black hobbit, it's brilliant, and what's notable about this run of the books, its a prequel to the age that we've seen in the films, its about the early days of the Shire and Tolkien's environment, so we're an indigenous population of Harfoots, we're hobbits but we're called Harfoots, we're multi-cultural, we're a tribe not a race, so we're black, asian and brown, even Maori types within it. There's a very strong female presence in this, there's going to be female heroes in this evocation of the story, they're going to be little people as usual.". }}

That's me out.
A couple of years ago the thought of a black or Maori hobbit would have seemed like a parody, a joke, and one of those skits they do on late night TV. Now its reality and I am totally appalled by it. How dare they appropriate Northern hemisphere stories and turn them into a 21st century woke travesty.
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Post by chris63 Tue Oct 12, 2021 3:29 pm

Don't believe Lenny Henry is playing a Hobbit. The guy's 6 foot 4. Think he might be pulling your hairy feet. 😅

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Post by Pettytyrant101 Tue Oct 12, 2021 3:58 pm

{{ Rhys-Davies who played Gimli was 6ft 1. }}

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Post by Mrs Figg Tue Oct 12, 2021 7:17 pm

So I am not excited to watch this any more, I will give it a try obviously, but its got off on the wrong hairy foot. A Maori Hobbit Rolling Eyes Its so this world specific that its going to take us out of the story, and if Lenny Henry has a Brummie accent No  good grief.
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Post by Pettytyrant101 Tue Oct 12, 2021 8:11 pm

{{ Same Figg. Its not that Ive anything against representation and all that, but it has to be proportional, and in the case of adapting someones work appropriate to that work and author.
I recently watched RTD's Its a Sin, about the effect the arrival of the AIDS epidemic had on the gay community in the UK, and its brilliant as youd expect from a writer of RTD's calibre writing about the stuff he knows (and in this case, lived through) currently having a 98% score on Rotten Tomtaoes  and 91 on Metacritic.
But thing with it is social issues, gay and lesbian, trans issues are the themes and those are the characters we follow. Its there because it makes sense to be, because its about those issues and those people.

Tolkien had little to no interest in commenting on social norms or acceptances, he had no interest in portraying gay/lesbian or trans people either who he probably knew nothing about beyond his catholic teachings its all sinful and whatever life lessons he acquired. The themes of social issues and social norms just are not a part of Tolkiens writing or of ME. Hell sex doesnt even happen in ME in any visible fashion, people procreate because people do, but thats about as far as Tolkien was interestd in mentioning it. He's more interested in heirs, and family lines than he is in the act.

If these writers which to tackle these subjects they need to find material that is suitable to it, ones whose themes are on these issues and probably explored.
Half-arsedly shoving them in to Tolkien where they have no business being not only destroys the carefully crafted world, the movements of its people across time (and more importantly for Tolkien how all that effected language) but will also do a diservice to the topics themselves, being inappropriately applied like someone drawing a gay pride rainbow on the Mona Lisa.
I just dont understand the thinking process behind doing such a thing.  Mad }}

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Post by Mrs Figg Tue Oct 12, 2021 9:51 pm

They are doing it because they are under pressure from a minority on Twitter to include 'diversity' at all costs. Its as if everything has to be seen under the lens of BLM and LGBTQ+ , which is absolutely great if the story is about modern day life. But modern day identity politics have zero place in a quasi-Medieval Northern European culture written by a man writing in the 40s and 50s. Its as if we aren't allowed our own Celtic/Anglo-Saxon culture because its 'offensive' to insist everyone is white and straight in these stories, even though they are all white and straight. I watched a TV program about London bridges yesterday, it was all about the building of Waterloo bridge in the c19th. But they just had to shoehorn a segment about Black soldiers at Waterloo, just cos. It was just plonked in as if to say 'well this is all a bit Anglo-Saxon and we cant have that, lets have some diversity'. We all know why there were Black people in Laketown its because they felt the pressure to appease the moaners who were crying about Black Elves, Black Hobbits is just more of the same virtue signalling nonsense. If they want stories about Black Hobbits fine and dandy, write them, don't use Tolkien.
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Post by Pettytyrant101 Wed Oct 13, 2021 6:21 pm

{{ There is a rather obvious double-standard in play on this matter it's true Figg.

If you took a much loved African novel, clearly set and deeply embedded in African culture, history and societies and clearly featuring black characters and adapted it with a cast of whites, asians and maori there would be outrage and it would be cancelled before it got made (and quite rightly too it'd be a stupid and offensive idea) but take a much loved Northern European novel, clearly set and deeply embedded in Northern European culture, history and societies and clearly featuring white characters and adapt it with a cast of black, asians and maori it's absolutely fine and apparently a good and virtous thing to do.

Now thats not to say different cultures shouldnt adapt other cultures works, King Lear works really well as a Chinese film set in its historic feudal past with all Chinese setting, cast and language (worth watching if youve never seen). And likewise a drama set in say a modern South African city could be easily be taken and translated to a western city with white cast or vive versa.
But only when changes are being made that are for a real purpose, in both cases to better present the drama to the home audience in a manner more tailored to them.

There is no purpose in having Harfoots mix raced beyond for the sake of doing it and feeling smug about themselves for having done so, its not reflecting anyone of their particular cultures, they will still be english basically if they are hobbits, so sticking different races in to play clearly english based characters makes no sense (itd be no less stupid to me if they were all Scottish, Welsh and Irish), nor can they alter hobbits to be reflective of all the different races now being depicted as hobbits as then they wouldnt feel homogenous and like hobbits, so its not catering to any home audience either to make the story and themes more relevant and understandable to a different culture. If they did that they would no longer feel like hobbits, quintescentally english in nature.

So the change serves no purpose other than the rather offensive, to me at least, notion that some child of black, asian of whatever race is not going to be able to engage with story or characters unless they see someone thats the same colour as them in it.
Its a mad, patronizing idea.
And insulting not only to that child but to the ability of story to captivate and engage on its own merits regardless of the reader/viewers skin colour. If you need proof of how mad it is look at how the stories of the Bible, stories rooted in a middle-eastern brown culture and excluively featuring people from those cultures, has completely captivated and shaped white culture, history and society for over a thousand years.

Story works when its well told and has powerful themes regardless of race. And altering a work in this way when it serves no function is an act of vandalism.}}

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