US General Elections 2020

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Post by halfwise on Thu Nov 19, 2020 4:17 pm

Ah, pure candidate spending.  Well worth it this time to get rid of that bugger, though he's hanging on like a nasty cough.

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Post by Pettytyrant101 on Fri Nov 20, 2020 3:47 am

{{ Anyone see Gulliano's unhinged press conference? Wow! Suffice to say its was a 90 minute run through of just about every conspiracry theory under the sun and not one shred of proof for anything.



In reality Georgia finished its recount and declard Biden the winner, again. And another bunch of ridiculous lawsuits filed by the Trump campaign got kicked out of court in three different states. }}

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Post by halfwise on Fri Nov 20, 2020 1:45 pm

It was good to see that Tucker Carlson, the fox host who has been supporting investigations into fraudulant voting, is calling out a trump lawyer who refused to offer any evidence. Every now and then his integrity gets the best of him.

https://www.aol.com/tucker-carlson-claims-trumps-attorney-062143094.html

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Post by Pettytyrant101 on Sun Nov 22, 2020 12:28 am

{{ Another bad day in court for Trump, Pennslyvania this time where the judge threw out the attempt to oveturn the votes, worth repeating in full what the judge said-

"Plaintiffs ask this Court to disenfranchise almost seven million voters. This Court has been unable to find any case in which a plaintiff has sought such a drastic remedy in the contest of an election, in terms of the sheer volume of votes asked to be invalidated. One might expect that when seeking such a startling outcome, a plaintiff would come formidably armed with compelling legal arguments and factual proof of rampant corruption, such that this Court would have no option but to regrettably grant the proposed injunctive relief despite the impact it would have on such a large group of citizens. That has not happened. Instead, this Court has been presented with strained legal arguments without merit and speculative accusations, unpled in the operative complaint and unsupported by evidence. In the United States of America, this cannot justify the disenfranchisement of a single voter, let alone all the voters of its sixth most populated state. Our people, laws, and institutions demand more. At bottom, Plaintiffs have failed to meet their burden to state a claim upon which relief may be granted."

This has to end soon surely? }}

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Post by Pettytyrant101 on Sun Nov 22, 2020 7:42 am

{{ So Trumps demanded yet another recount in Georgia- meaning he will lose for a third time in one state! What a complete waste of tax payer money. But worse its putting all those vote counters at risk yet again by making them pointlessly recount for a third time in the midle of a pandemic that this President is completely ignoring and is now totally out of control throughout the US. You couldnt make this up. }}

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Post by halfwise on Sun Nov 22, 2020 12:42 pm

The audit Georgia did was already more rigorous than a recount.  But since they are different procedures technically they must do it if the difference is less than 0.5% and are requested to do so.  So unless the recount is managed terribly Trump will lose. Once again by trying to show he's a fighter Trump will only make it more clear he's a loser.

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Post by Mrs Figg on Sun Nov 22, 2020 2:01 pm

He is getting more unhinged by the day. I have a feeling he will try to do something really dangerous.
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Post by Pettytyrant101 on Sun Nov 22, 2020 2:17 pm

{{ It's already unhinged. Trumps trying to get electors to oveturn pennslyvania, hes got the republican observers in Wisconsin demanding to see every single ballot and trying to get them discarded if the ballot is folded in the envelope! all in an attempt to make the counting take so long it will run out of time, hes been calling republicans to the White House to try to force them into not certifying results and he's demanded the recount in Georgia for the third time. And yesterday while the G20 leaders discussed preparedness for any future pandemics, and while the virus surges throughout America- having killed a quarter of a million Americans so far and growing daily at a rate of 1000 deaths per day, he went golfing. Today he has pulled the US out of the Open Skies Treaty which is Europes best means of keeping tabs on what Russia are up to internally screwing over Americas allies and making the world an even less safe place.
At what point does the Repubican party grow a pair and say enough? At which point does the damage he is doing to US democracy become irrepairable? }}

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Post by halfwise on Sun Nov 22, 2020 2:39 pm

Many (though not enough) conservative members of congress and media outlets have called on him to concede.  The Washington Examiner said that he might cause the contested Georgia Senate seats to be be lost, and if the GOP loses the Senate, they've lost all their power.  I doubt more than one seat will flip, still giving them a majority by 1.

The fact is that GOP politicians are terrified of his hold over their voters.  70% of the GOP base believe his malarky about the election, which tells you he can string them along for years to come.  GOP politicians know if they defy Trump, they'll be gone the next election.  It's really astonishing the hold he he has.  Even in defeat he's still won.

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Post by Pettytyrant101 on Sun Nov 22, 2020 2:47 pm

{{ I get why they are doing it, for the reasons you give, i just wonder how far they let him undermine every US institution and the US reputation before they have to do something. How long can they maintain this position of doing nothing? Until he calls his suporters to take to the streets and defend his refusal to concede with arms?
There is also surely the straight political calculations that going against Trump might turn the 70million who voted for him against them, but theres 76 million didnt and who are very unlikely after this to vote republican again, surely long term this damages their chances of reelection far more than it helps them? Appealing to a narrower base than you need to get elected, and pushing the majority further away from wanting to ever vote for you seems suicidal politically. }}

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Post by halfwise on Sun Nov 22, 2020 4:20 pm

They will only get those votes that may have voted for them anyway - they MUST keep that 70 million to stay in office - those remaining few million on the other side that may flip are not a meaningful part of the political calculation.  The 76 million are basically irrelevant to the Republicans because Trump has such a strong hold on the base that they can no longer count on it if they go against him.

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Post by Mrs Figg on Sun Nov 22, 2020 9:17 pm

I can just imagine the undignified and grotesque vision of Trump being turfed out of the WH by burly security guards, has he no dignity whatsoever. I cant even begin to imagine what his ego will do to America as he twists and turns the truth. At what point does reality intrude. Maybe never, maybe he will never ever concede defeat. What is truly amazing is that one mans monstrous ego can have so much power just because he wills it to be so. Nobody can say no to him and they let him get away with it.
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Post by malickfan on Sun Nov 22, 2020 10:37 pm

Trump will most likely try to run again in 2024 (for the presidency that is, i doubt he has ran anywhere physically for a rather long time...), but would the Republican party want him back? Yes he got them a record amount of votes, but is now a failed one term candidate who was impeached once and lost the popular vote twice, is Trump's popularity with his supporters an asset or liability to the Republican party overall mov
ing forwards?

Could Trump hypothetically start his own MAGA party or something and run as a 3rd party candidate? I can see Trump turning on the G.O.P if they don't go along with his attempts to cling to power...


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Post by halfwise on Mon Nov 23, 2020 12:50 am

He likely will not run again because it would risk defeat, which he can't stand. It will stroke his ego better to pull strings from a distance, and it's less work.

But he's not a liability for his party so much as an inescapable curse. He can back or bless candidates and make all the difference - the only ones he doesn't have influence over are popular moderate republicans in swing states: they are pulling from outside his base. But such moderates are rare. The GOP as a whole can't risk turning their backs on him, which must irritate the hell out of most of them.

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Post by Pettytyrant101 on Mon Nov 23, 2020 3:05 am

{{ Trump team is distancing themselves from their own lawyers now! That nutty women Sidney Powell that gave the unhinged press conference with Giuliani, and claimed that everyone including the long dead Chavez, China, Russia, the GOP, vote counters and the vote counting machines were all in on a conspiracy to deny Trump a second term, is now apparently not one of Trump's lawyers. Even though she appeared with Giuliani and Trump tweeted her name as part of his legal team alongside the rest-  

“I look forward to Mayor Giuliani spearheading the legal effort to defund OUR RIGHT to FREE and FAIR ELECTIONS! Rudy Giuliani, Joseph diGenova, Victoria Toensing, SIDNEY POWELL, and Jenna Ellis, a truly great team, added to our other wonderful lawyers and representatives!”- Trump

“Sidney Powell is practicing law on her own,” said Trump’s personal attorney Rudy Giuliani and another lawyer for Trump, Jenna Ellis, in a statement. “She is not a member of the Trump Legal Team. She is also not a lawyer for the President in his personal capacity.”
No further details or clarification was offered.
In a Saturday-night interview with Newsmax, Powell appeared to accuse Georgia's Republican governor, Brian Kemp, and its Republican secretary of state of being part of a conspiracy involving a voting-system contract award that she contends harmed Trump's reelection bid.
"Georgia's probably going to be the first state I'm going to blow up and Mr. Kemp and the secretary of state need to go with it," she said, later adding that a lawsuit she planned to file against the state would be "biblical."- Fox news

Biblical- no doubt it is in the sense its a made up story she believes in fervently without a shred of evidence to support it.
But you know youre far out in whack-out land when even Trump distances himself from you! }}

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Post by Lancebloke on Mon Nov 23, 2020 12:03 pm

I think she called them all the "Elite Strikeforce"

I thought that was funny.

I really want to see these mountains of evidence that they keep talking about. It is either going to be super funny or completely shocking.
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Post by Pettytyrant101 on Tue Nov 24, 2020 10:54 pm

{{ Got a question, as I understand it there is a law in the US of 'frivoulous litigation', which according to wiki is -

'the use of legal processes with apparent disregard for the merit of one's own arguments. It includes presenting an argument with reason to know that it would certainly fail, or acting without a basic level of diligence in researching the relevant law and facts...Frivolous litigation may be based on absurd legal theories, may involve a superabundance or repetition of motions or additional suits, may be uncivil or harassing to the court, or may claim extreme remedies.'

Given what judges have said about the law suits brought by Trumps lawyers to court, why have they not been done for frivilous litigation? They seem to have fallen foul of several of the things mentioned above.}}

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Post by halfwise on Tue Nov 24, 2020 11:20 pm

I think you need someone with actual law experience to answer that one, Petty. Though there is a definite reluctance to bring legal action against government officials for performance of duty (that would snarl government forever) it's unclear if election wrangling counts as performing government office.

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Post by Mrs Figg on Tue Nov 24, 2020 11:34 pm

we need Blue to answer that one. Very Happy
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Post by Pettytyrant101 on Thu Nov 26, 2020 2:24 am

{{ Yeah come on Blue, drop by and give us some legal advice!

Heres another thought, given the US prides itself on its democracy and how they got rid of monarchs and the like, why can a President pardon people just like a monarch? }}

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Post by Lancebloke on Thu Nov 26, 2020 10:59 am

Found this dude recently. I like the way he generally does his videos (the one below is more of a conversation around the election shenanigans with another lawyer)



His video on the whole Breonna Taylor thing was very interesting.
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Post by halfwise on Thu Nov 26, 2020 1:39 pm

Almost 2 hours. Will come back to that.

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Post by Pettytyrant101 on Fri Nov 27, 2020 2:25 am

{{ I see Trump is not only still claiming the election was a massive fraud, but has now declared the Republican Secretary of State of Georgia an 'enemy of the people'.
Thats always been a very dangerous phrase he has thrown around about the press far to casually, to do so of someone in your own party at this time of very hightened tension is beyond irresponsible. }}

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Post by halfwise on Fri Nov 27, 2020 3:00 am

Pettytyrant101 wrote:{{ Yeah come on Blue, drop by and give us some legal advice!

Heres another thought, given the US prides itself on its democracy and how they got rid of monarchs and the like, why can a President pardon people just like a monarch? }}

Again, you have to go to the Federalist papers by Hamilton, where he explains that a single person is more likely to show leniency while a group of people will take strength in a group decision to uphold the law.

As the sense of responsibility is always strongest, in proportion as it is undivided, it may be inferred that a single man would be most ready to attend to the force of those motives which might plead for a mitigation of the rigor of the law, and least apt to yield to considerations which were calculated to shelter a fit object of its vengeance. The reflection that the fate of a fellow-creature depended on his sole fiat, would naturally inspire scrupulousness and caution; the dread of being accused of weakness or connivance, would beget equal circumspection, though of a different kind. On the other hand, as men generally derive confidence from their numbers, they might often encourage each other in an act of obduracy, and might be less sensible to the apprehension of suspicion or censure for an injudicious or affected clemency. On these accounts, one man appears to be a more eligible dispenser of the mercy of government, than a body of men.

Also in some circumstances a well-timed pardon may calm rising rebellion when a leader of such a rebellion faces severe punishment. A legislative body may not act quickly enough.

But the principal argument for reposing the power of pardoning in this case to the Chief Magistrate is this: in seasons of insurrection or rebellion, there are often critical moments, when a welltimed offer of pardon to the insurgents or rebels may restore the tranquillity of the commonwealth; and which, if suffered to pass unimproved, it may never be possible afterwards to recall. The dilatory process of convening the legislature, or one of its branches, for the purpose of obtaining its sanction to the measure, would frequently be the occasion of letting slip the golden opportunity.

https://avalon.law.yale.edu/18th_century/fed74.asp

Of course there are the counter cases where a man such as Trump may use the power of pardon to protect his own ass. Such a travesty in an elected official was not sufficiently foreseen by the founders. Really, it's not easy to imagine such an anomaly.

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Post by halfwise on Fri Nov 27, 2020 3:02 am

Pettytyrant101 wrote:{{ I see Trump is not only still claiming the election was a massive fraud, but has now declared the Republican Secretary of State of Georgia an 'enemy of the people'.
Thats always been a very dangerous phrase he has thrown around about the press far to casually, to do so of someone in your own party at this time of very hightened tension is beyond irresponsible. }}

Unfortunately a large percentage of his followers will eat this stuff up. Even haven seen this type of behavior played out in fascist regimes of the past it still catches you by surprise to find your own country is so susceptible to it.

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