US General Elections 2020

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Post by halfwise on Wed Nov 11, 2020 11:50 am

What do you mean by a genuine reason Biden can't take office? Either he's elected or he's not. That must be settled when the electoral college meets. If it's not, there is no provision whatsoever for what happens next. If they decide to squabble and delay then the status quo remains until they come to a decision.

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Post by Mrs Figg on Wed Nov 11, 2020 2:09 pm

I think all these law suits will be thrown out, there's no evidence of fraud. He knows it, everyone knows it, it may delay things but I bet the lawyers wont want to be responsible for being on a losing team and just throw out the cases.
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Post by Pettytyrant101 on Wed Nov 11, 2020 2:15 pm

{{ Another case just got nowhere, The postal worker who claimed his bosses were up to no good has retracted his claim and turns out he had beef with his boss and has been through several disciplinary procedures.
I think the main proof there is no case is the legal team Trump has, Guillano and his like. When Bush contested Gore he had a shit hot crack team of lawyers who took on the case, when Trump first claimed fraud they also said theyd be getting a similar team of high powered lawyers on the case, but they havent. Most likely because no high powered lawyers who have looked at it will touch the cases with a ten foot barge pole. }}

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Post by halfwise on Wed Nov 11, 2020 3:08 pm

Trump's just trying to give his die-hard supporters something to hang on to, so they won't think he's a loser. And they are willing to believe anything. I've seen very intelligent people who should know better parrot back his bogus talking points.

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Post by Mrs Figg on Wed Nov 11, 2020 3:51 pm

I think he is just trying to sow fear and anxiety as much as possible before he is thrown out. He is enjoying the last dollop of power over people, its revenge.
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Post by Lancebloke on Wed Nov 11, 2020 4:39 pm

halfwise wrote:What do you mean by a genuine reason Biden can't take office?  Either he's elected or he's not.  That must be settled when the electoral college meets.  If it's not, there is no provision whatsoever for what happens next.  If they decide to squabble and delay then the status quo remains until they come to a decision.

I dont know state law well enough to understand if there is anything that could delay them from appointing their electors in December or from a federal point of view of there is any process stopping them from making their official presidential nomination in January.
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Post by Lancebloke on Wed Nov 11, 2020 4:41 pm

Mrs Figg wrote:I think he is just trying to sow fear and anxiety as much as possible before he is thrown out. He is enjoying the last dollop of power over people, its revenge.

There seem to be all sorts of examples of irregularities... I am just not sure if they are people misunderstanding processes and calling bullshit or if there are some instances of fraud etc... then the question is how much.
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Post by Pettytyrant101 on Wed Nov 11, 2020 5:30 pm

{{ Every US election, and in fact any democratic election especially in very large countries have some instances of actual fraud, more of human error, that has always happened and is not in dispute. The pertinent question is not do some ballots get counted or wrongly counted but have enough done so change the outcome of the election?
There is so far not the slightiest bit of evidence that there has been fraud or errors on the scale necessary to ovreturn the result.
Whats dangerous about what Trump is doing is they are claiming there has not only been fraud on a massive scale, but that its a delibrate fraud being carried out by multiple officials in multiple states. For a claim like that you need a lot of solid evidence, not a few discrepencies here and there which are normal in all eelctions (though you'd expect there to be maybe as much as twice as much given the unprecedented scale of both mail in voting and also how many folk voted altogether, in previous elections the levels of fraudelent or miscounted ballots has been between 0.0003 percent and 0.0025 percent, so even if the increased voting more than trebled that its not going to change anything - it would have to be delibrate, massive widespread orchastrated fraud at multiple levels to change the outcome). }}

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Post by Mrs Figg on Wed Nov 11, 2020 6:48 pm

yep agreed Nod
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Post by Pettytyrant101 on Wed Nov 11, 2020 7:06 pm

{{ Way Im reading whats going on in regards to leading republicans letting Trump away with this, when they must know the chances of the result being overturned are next to impossible, are the 2 senate races in Georgia. If the Republicans can win those, or even just one of them they have control of the Senate.
Whatever we might think of Trump the Republiocan base loves him, he mighthave lost but he got out more votes than any Republican candidate in history, and the republican party seems afraid that if they dont go along with Trumps claims they risk alienating their own base who they need to come out and vote in these Senate races.
So the calculation seems to be hold their noses, go along with it and hope it keeps their vote coming out.

Question becomes how much damage to they let him do to US elections, democracy and its political system before that outweighs their individual or party interests? Quite a lot of damage it seems.}}

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Post by halfwise on Wed Nov 11, 2020 8:19 pm

I think that's a very accurate reading of the situation.

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Post by Pettytyrant101 on Wed Nov 11, 2020 10:43 pm

{{ Latest judgement to go against Trump- }}

An Arizona Superior Court judge has denied a request by President Trump's reelection team to seal evidence in a lawsuit alleging poll workers in Maricopa County "incorrectly rejected" Election Day votes.
Judge Daniel Kiley agreed with election officials' assertion that the public “has a right to know how flimsy [the] Plaintiffs’ evidence actually is.”
the Trump campaign claimed workers had disregarded procedure and that thousands of ballots could have been left uncounted or deemed "overvotes," but Maricopa officials estimated Monday that only 180 ballots were potentially in jeopardy.
It's a figure they said won't "make one iota of difference," (Biden leads by 14,746)- Fox News

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Post by Pettytyrant101 on Thu Nov 12, 2020 1:59 pm

{{ Guess Fox havent exactly given up their old tricks yet.
The above story has been suspicoulsy rewritten, today it reads-

'An Arizona Superior Court judge has denied a request by President Trump's reelection team to seal evidence in a lawsuit alleging poll workers in Maricopa County "incorrectly rejected" Election Day votes.
Judge Daniel Kiley did not comment on the evidence that was presented but denied the motion after determining that the sensitive information in the documents could be redacted prior to an upcoming hearing. He determined that sealing was not required.
the Trump campaign claimed workers had disregarded procedure and that thousands of ballots could have been left uncounted or deemed "overvotes," but Maricopa officials estimated Monday that only 180 ballots were potentially in jeopardy.
It's a figure they said won't "make one iota of difference,"

Spot the suspicous difference! Guess someone had words about reporting the truth. }}

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Post by Lancebloke on Thu Nov 12, 2020 2:29 pm

I think there is a bit of a battle going on over at Fox News. Some people who are hard-core constitutionalists (if that is a word) that feel that future of the country is a stake should this kind of thing become the normal, those that think it already is with all of the shady dealing accusations and then those that are Trumpians that's support him all the way.

When Fox cut off the feed from the White House spokesperson the other day, I actually agree with a lot of commentators on the right that it was the wrong thing to do. Let it play out and then fact check it... dont make it seem like you are hiding something or that the viewer is too stupid to make up their own mind. That is the kind of thing that reinforces peoples thoughts rather than allows for them to be challenged.
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Post by halfwise on Thu Nov 12, 2020 2:44 pm

Given what the Trump administration was trying to do it was entirely appropriate to cut out and reprimand them. They needed a good slap in the face.

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Post by Mrs Figg on Thu Nov 12, 2020 3:24 pm

When the Trump administration is peddling utter bullshit lies they should be cut off. There is nothing in those lies for people to make peoples minds up, they are lies. If however it was just opinion or debate fine that would be wrong to cut them off because it deprives people of making their minds up. Lies should be shut down immediately. and lies which damage democracy and cause chaos need shutting up before they do damage.
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Post by Lancebloke on Thu Nov 12, 2020 3:29 pm

They are not lies until proven otherwise. Shutting down a claim means that nobody knows they are lies.

If they are lies, then there should be no reason to not let them finish and then disprove the claims.

Half the world already believes the media are controlling the narrative... how does cutting off a feed help that?

Let them talk then counter with the known facts.

I dont understand why everyone is so keen to shut everything down so quickly. It doesn't help anything at all... especially when the chief claim from Trump all along is Fake News and corrupt mainstream media. Well done for giving him another example to use and further embolden his base.
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Post by Pettytyrant101 on Thu Nov 12, 2020 5:06 pm

{{ Trumps definently not happy with Fox thats for sure. }}

The US president said the network's daytime ratings had "completely collapsed".
"Very sad to watch this happen, but they forgot what made them successful, what got them there. They forgot the Golden Goose. The biggest difference between the 2016 Election, and 2020, was Fox News!"- BBC News

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Post by David H on Thu Nov 12, 2020 11:01 pm

Lancebloke wrote: Let it play out and then fact check it...

I'd like to see them just add a canned laugh-track over the top of the crazy stuff so it sound like an old sitcom rerun. clown

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Post by David H on Thu Nov 12, 2020 11:02 pm

Pettytyrant101 wrote:{{"They forgot the Golden Goose." }}

That nickname might stick! Twisted Evil

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Post by Pettytyrant101 on Fri Nov 13, 2020 1:42 am

{{ This has got to be my fapourite thing to come out of Trumps lawsuit attempts so far, says everything you need to know about them.

When Trumps lawyers tried to get votes discounted because they did not have observers present the judge, having evidence in front of him that they were in fact in the room the entire time the following exchange occured-

Judge- Are your observers in the counting room?

Lawyer- There's a non-zero number of people in the room.

Judge- I am asking you as a member of the bar of this court: are people representing the Donald J Trump for President, representing the plaintiffs, in that room?

Lawyer- Yes.

Judge- I'm sorry, then what's your problem?

At which point the judge threw them and the case out. Laughing

But that answer- There's a non-zero number of people in the room - is somewhere between the most idiotic thng Ive ever heard in a court of law, and genius as a means of saying yes whilst trying not to admit you're saying yes. Very Happy }}

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Post by halfwise on Fri Nov 13, 2020 3:43 am

The Department of Homeland Security just declared these elections the most secure in American History. Trump's own people are getting royally pissed off with him.

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Post by David H on Fri Nov 13, 2020 5:27 am

He doesn't care what his own people think. He's given up on winning this one and is playing 100% to his base now.

Trump told advisers he could announce 2024 bid shortly after certification of Biden win
The Times reported Thursday that at a White House meeting Wednesday, the president spoke with several advisers, many of whom told the president that his chances of changing the outcome of the 2020 election through his campaign’s multistate legal battle are extremely low.

“He knows it’s over,” one adviser told the Times.

According to interviews with half a dozen advisers and others close to Trump, the president has no larger strategy to continue denying the election results in several key battleground states, but is instead hoping to maintain support from his base as he considers what he will do once he leaves the Oval Office.
https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/525802-trump-told-advisers-he-would-announce-2024-bid-shortly-after-certification

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Post by Mrs Figg on Fri Nov 13, 2020 3:01 pm

"non-zero number" we are in a post-parody phase of humanity. :clap:
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Post by halfwise on Fri Nov 13, 2020 6:15 pm

Just to put it out there - the US system of having federal elections run by the states serves as a roadblock to federal attempts to hijack the election, as the Trump administration is trying to do. Not sure anybody has previously realized this advantage, but we haven't had anyone like Trump before.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/litman-barr-takes-shot-fundamentals-110004587.html

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